Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "Hydra Attacks, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by RoyalRubble, Feb 21, 2016.

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  1. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Spidey swings back into action with the fourth season of Ultimate Spider-Man! Catch the hour-long premiere of Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six, today at 9:00AM ET on Disney XD!

    [​IMG]
    Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "Hydra Attacks, Parts 1 & 2"
    Episode Debut - February 21st, 2016
    Directed by: Young Ki Yoon (Part 1) & Jae Woo Kim (Part 2)
    Written by: Kevin Burke & Chris "Doc" Wyatt

    Peter Parker has everything he could want – he’s a successful hero and S.H.I.E.L.D. leader and has a great relationship with his Aunt May. But when Doc Ock teams up with Arnim Zola and Hydra to attack the Tri-Carrier, S.H.I.E.L.D. finds itself caught off-guard and it is left to Spider-Man to singlehandedly stop the assault. Having lost S.H.I.E.L.D. and his friends to Doc Ock and Hydra, Spider-Man has to assemble a new team in order to stop the villains from taking over New York. Along the way, Spider-Man meets Scarlet Spider who he must persuade to join his new team and convince him that he is not a monster, but a true hero.

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  2. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
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    Watching the beginning of this episode really brings a show like The Weekenders to mind for me.

    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
     
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  3. trance2009

    trance2009 Fun to play with not to eat

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    Scarlet Spider, huh?
     
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  4. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
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    I'm liking the way Kaine is being depicted. Seeing all of the Warriors is reminding me that Gravity never showed up on the show.

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  5. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    Or Echo, and Speedball.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. cjeromek

    cjeromek Member

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    Out of all the Marvel shows, this is the only one I get excited about. I may not like the whole S.H.I.E.L.D. premise but atleast it's not a slave to a movie or comic. It does its own thing while acknowledging the other media. I will admit I'd prefer for somethings they'd take more from the comics but on the whole it's quite interesting. Way better than the first season.

    One thing I was worried was going to happen actually did: the fact that they made Doc Ock Kaine's creator. One of my pet peeves of the 90s series was when everything was always tied to Kingpin and now USM has Doc Ock and the Goblin. We still have a whole season to go so there's definitely going to be more to this story.

    One thing I need to mention is that I love the way they animate Spidey fighting. Every episode is a treat for me because they so much attention in the way he moves and uses his webs. For me, even the worst episodes are watchable as long as Spidey has a decent fight. Also, I love the monkey noise. Gets me everytime.
     
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  7. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I thought this was a good opener for the season, if not necessarily amazing, carrying over a lot of stuff from seasons 1-3 while still introducing plenty of new elements for this season and once again with far better writing and action then past USM episodes :).

    Despite this season being called "Ultimate Spider-Man vs. The Sinister Six," which hearing the XD announcer say out loud reminds me how much of a mouthful that is, by the end of the premier we're still lacking a Sinister Six. I mean, we had Ock deciding to build a new roster and trying to find worthy candidates, but I was expecting we'd have a full-roster by the end of the second half. Even when Kraven seemed like a shoe-in, we had him jettisoned out of the Hydra carrier before anything could come of it. Almost like how season 3 was titled Web Warriors and we didn't get that group until midway through the season and only at the end of Spider-Verse :sweat:.

    I wasn't crazy about the intro. I was happy they actually referenced Aunt May learning his secret identity in the season finale, even if they didn't really do that much with it, but Peter pausing things and constantly talking to the audience just really too me out of the episode. And Peter Parker's being confident and extremely optimistic is always a sure sign that troubles coming :rolleyes:.

    Cho rigging the Iron Spider suit to simulate Spider-Sense was neat, though I had forgotten Agent Venom actually had Spider-Sense, but this whole episode building up the Web Warriors reminded me that it's a team of similarly-themed heroes with extremely similar powersets. Obviously each of the group has a different personalities, so I guess part of the appeal is seeing how they mesh or clash (like Flash and Scarlet Spider or Flash and Cho confusing each other with their football and science references), but it doesn't really make for a very interesting team otherwise in my opinion. At least there's a little distinction in terms of powersets, with Scarlet's stingers, Cho's Repulsors, Miles Venom Sting and invisibility, and Agent Venom's weapons ;).

    Jeez, Fury sure took losing the Tricarrier hard. I don't remember him reacting this much when he lost the Hellicarrier though I guess Hydra eating away at it and taking it over was even more of a bitter pill to swallow :shrug:.

    I think I finally understand what Cort Lane meant about Mark Hamill's Zola performance. He was a lot more enthusiastic and hammy in this whole two-parter then he was in the entirety of his season 3 appearances :p.

    I have to admit, I didn't notice that much of an improvement with these Goblin Troopers compared to the normal Hydra troops, aside from obviously the Goblin face. It seemed like they had a bit of super-strength, but it didn't seem to help them much against the Spiders. They seemed more effective with their gliders by comparison. Heck, Doc Ock's upgrade to his new body didn't seem like much of an upgrade at all, aside from making him look worse, he was still fairly easily defeated by Spidey and Co.. I'm also really surprised that Doc Ock apparently wanted the reprogrammed Swarm nanobots to make him look that way :eek:.

    So Osborn really is cured of the Goblin Serum. For once a cure actually sticks on this show! It was also nice to see Norman and Harry together and actually functioning like a family again, since it's been a while since we'd had that. But now that Norman can't transform anymore, and Ock wants a Green Goblin to lead the Goblin Troopers, it explains exactly how Ultimate Goblin is going to factor into the new Sinister Six o_O.

    Scarlet Spider was the biggest highlight of the episode for me. Not only was it great seeing that version of the suit in action, and that Times Square action sequence with Spidey and Scarlet Spider was awesome, but Scott Porter and the writing did a good job conveying Kaine's Scarlet Spider personality on the show and I liked how he played off against Peter. Though his constant mentioning of caring only about himself and annoyance at Peter's antics wore a little thin by the end. Also funny that Flash disliked his costume considering he wore the classic Scarlet Spider suit in season 3.

    Though I really have to wonder what SS's deal is...he seems older then Peter, somehow knows how to fly a plane, he calls himself the "First Spider," and was experimented on by Doc Ock. I'm also sure there's an important reason he doesn't take off his mask. Could it be that he's like Ben Reilly, a clone of Peter's that thinks he's the original, and Ock's experiments turned him into what he is? Or does he have Silk's origin, where he was bit by the same Spider that bit Peter and Ock managed to find him and capture him? But if Ock had Scarlet Spider before all this...why did he need Peter's blood in season one? Or was it afterwards?
     
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  8. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    Did anyone wonder where Nova went? Yeah, he took Fury to a hospital, but with his super speed, he should have at least appeared in the climax of part 2. But maybe he would have made things too easy.

    Anyway, good two-parter. Even if I'm tired of Doc Ock (and the Hellicarrier always being invaded) at least they tried to do something different with it this time.

    I thought it was weird that all the teammates were captured off screen. Did they lose to the Goblin soldiers?

    Oh, I was SO HAPPY that Norman thought ahead and gave himself the vaccine. Kudos to the writers for not bringing back Goblin for the umpteenth time (at least, not yet).
     
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  9. Roxas_Sora

    Roxas_Sora Well-Known Member

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    Many of us don't live in the USA. So please, can somebody post clear spoilers about the events of these episodes. ChessKing posted days ago info about the first part. So, can somebody post all the possible details from second part, please?
     
  10. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
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    Norman seemed to have healed a lot faster than I would have expected. I really didn't expect to see so soon after he appeared to be almost catatonic after Spider-Verse. I do wonder if he actually has changed though. This show's Norman was villainous before the Goblin serum was in him so it will be interesting to see if that side of him is gone now.

    I agree about the team seeming too samey. It's odd always seeing different versions of Spidey operating together.

    Scarlet Spider was definitely the highlight and I like that they were still able to show how brutal and punishing he can be even when he's G-Rated.



    Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
     
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  11. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Yeah, I'm wondering what happened to Nova. Apparently Fury is supposed to go missing, going by a Cort Lane interview, so I wonder if Sam is missing too o_O?

    Guess that just goes to show you that, even after his big showing in this episode, you just can't count on Nova :p.

    I think that was the intention, which is odd given how Spider-Man and Scarlet Spider were pretty much able to beat most of them on their own.

    Too bad it doesn't look like Conners will be as lucky :sweat:.
    True, and a lot of the reason Otto is so messed up and hates Norman is because of Norman's influence and forcing him to hunt down Spider-Man, which is obviously being glossed over :shrug:.

    Though whether Norman's current turn to good is completely genuine or not, I can believe he actually cares about Harry and doesn't want to become The Goblin again. That much I think the show has established quite well at this point ;).

    I wonder if it's ever going to be an issue once Peter realizes Scarlet Spider actually wants Ock dead :eek:?
     
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  12. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    So is Swarm officially dead?

    Also, best animation since Season 1 and Drake Bell expressed a lot of great emotion. Makes me wonder if Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H. went on longer that the animation would have increased in quality tenfold.
     
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    #12 TheLemsterPju, Feb 21, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  13. Dank

    Dank Member

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    Why does Otto want to make Norman the Goblin again? Every time he does he always ends up attacking him. Is he an idiot?
     
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  14. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    Overly confident or ambitious maybe. He REALLY wants to make Norman his slave, after being Norman's own personal one for years, and nothing was going to make him give up all those years of built up payback.

    But now that Norman's permanently cured, he may have to reconsider his plans.
     
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  15. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I forget exactly how Swarm works, and I'm not sure of the exact science of Otto's Octobot taking control of his nanites, but I'm assuming there's probably some vestige of Swarm left in there somewhere. I'm actually kinda curious what Ock and Zola did with the Swarm nanites after it had rebuilt Hydra carrier o_O.

    Also happy that they managed to find some use for one of the more lackluster one-off villains of USM season 2 ;).

    I think if SMASH was ever going to get an animation bump, it would've been in season 2, like how Assemble season 2 looked way better then season 1. Personally, I don't think SMASH was a big priority for Marvel Animation, with all due respect to the effort put in by the cast and crew for that show.

    USM's, pre-Guardians, is really the only Marvel cartoon with consistently good animation throughout all its seasons :sweat:.
    Aside from Lemster's reasoning, which was probably part of it, Otto said himself that the Goblin Troops weren't as effective as the Green Goblin and that he wanted them to have their own commander.

    With all his past failures at controlling the Goblin in mind, he probably had a new, more effective method, for doing it this time. Not that we'll ever know, though maybe he might try it on the Ultimate Goblin :eek:?
     
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  16. Roxas_Sora

    Roxas_Sora Well-Known Member

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    Well, I managed to see the first episodes, and I have to say, I'm going to be worried the whole season if all the episodes are going to be like these ones. Comments to do:

    1º) What happened with Batroc and Boomerang? I guess they didn't want to know anything about the Sinister 6 and they simply left.

    2º) It worries me that we haven't seen Kaine unmasked. What do you think we will see under the mask? I see four options: An older version of Peter's face with very cut hair or bald (the most probable I guess), a guy with beard and a long mane (I doubt it, because it will be itchy under the mask), a deformed face like Kaine's original look (censure wouldn't allow it) or a human face with bug features (censure wouldn't allow that either). I can't wait to see his face.

    3º) I have to say, they really catched Kaine's essence in this animated version. He's basically a Spider-Version of Wolverine, and his stingers really match Wolverine's claws. (I never understood the stingers, because spiders don't have stingers). I can't really wait to see Wolverine and Kaine meet each other. They even share the killing instincts. He's Spider-Man's darkness.

    4º) OK, I really hope they will explain the origin of Scarlet Spider/Kaine; but I'm already suspecting several things. Doc Ock created him? So I guess that means he's the one behind the Clone Saga, just like in the Ultimate Comics. I really can't wait to see if there are more clones, and I bet there are. However, I think Kaine's memories are fake because they don't match at all; which means he must have been brainwashed just like the Vulture.
    + Bitten by a radioactive spider too?, impossible. Spidey's origin was an accident, and it's impossible for an accident to repeat themselves in the same exact circunstances.
    + He escaped ten years ago?, that's impossible too. In that time, Otto Octavius wasn't still Doc Ock to begin with. And it was clearly the Doc Ock from Season 2/3 who experimented on Kaine.
    + "I'm a monster for what I have done, something I can't undo". "You hurt someone important to you?". As far as I do, there's only one person Kaine could have hurt that bad: Ben Reilly!! I really hope he will debut in the series. Probably Kaine thinks he killed him, but he survived.
    + Kaine knows how to fligh a jet? I bet this is part of Ock's brainwashing too. He surely tried to clone Spider-Man as an inicial test to create a Spider-Army, and he programmed him like a soldier capable or anything for a war.
    + Everything seems to aim the obvious. Eventually, we will discover that Kaine is actually a brainwashing clone of Spider-Man; and he's not the only one.

    5º) The brainwashing ray of Arnim Zola in SHIELD Academy's students really worries me. It seems to be the reason behind one of the heroes betraying Spider-Man and joining the Sinister Six. And everything seems to aim to Rhino. Since his mind was affected by his mutation, I guess the ray had a stronger effect on him. Lucky for the Spiders to be completely immune thanks to their spider-senses, but I don't get why it didn't work on Amadeus. I mean, he maybe upgraded his armor, but his Spider Sense is not natural.

    6º) Norman Osborn vaccinated himself against the Goblin serum? OK, that is something I didn't see coming. However, since he was a monster before becoming a Goblin, I'm not buying he really buried his past. This explain the return of the Ultimate Goblin, but since it will have to be sent back to his home dimension alongside Miles Morales eventually, I believe someone will have to take his place or he will eventually wear green again.

    7º) Harry turned into the next Goblin? Given his story in this series, I will say no. However, like I said in a previous post, I think something worse could happen to him eventually. I suspect he could become the new Carnage!!

    Well, what do you think?
     
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  17. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    They were stupid enough to stay on the ship and died from the lack of oxygen in outer space?

    Did he say ten years ago specifically?

    That would be brilliant. ;)
     
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  18. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    I recall Scarlet Spider saying Doc Ock kidnapped him "years ago" not "10 years ago." Could've missed it though.

    I liked how it started with everything looking up for Spidey before it all crashes down. How about this for continuity? Swarm in his amorphous state was still held prisoner in the Tri-Carrier and was used for Doc Ock's Trojan Horse attack. So much for the complaints that the show doesn't use continuity or tell an ongoing story which it's done for several seasons now.

    Here's my one note of confusion. Why would Doc Ock use Swarm's nanomachines to transform his body and give him a much uglier mug? Unless that change already happened earlier and he was in disguise? But then why would he need such a disguise at all, unless to be a little less suspicious? Was HYDRA maybe experimenting on him or did something and that was the result? Not clear. It just seems weird that Doc Ock would have the nanomachines purposefully transform him in that way.

    That being said, I definitely like this version of Doc Ock. He's way more menacing and scary this way. He's a lot more commanding and done messing around.

    The appearance of this Scarlet Spider is quite convenient. But my only assumption if that he is Kaine, he is cloned experiment of Spider-Man for the sake of this show.
     
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  19. superspidey2257

    superspidey2257 Your Friendly Neighbourhood Forum User

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    This two part episode really made the rest of this season look promising, it showed that the show is slowly taking a dark turn but still keeping its humour.
    Although I cant help but notice, why does hydra doc ock look like the doc ock off the end of the earth comic?
    can someone explain?
     
  20. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Part 1 was decent, though I thought the beginning was pretty bad with just how many times Peter broke the fourth wall before the opening titles. I know it was announced these kind of scenes and cutaway gags would continue to be used on the show but I think they kind of overdid it in this premiere. The gag that Aunt May knows he's Spider-Man was a decent reminder to how the previous season ended but it could have been handled better. It was fun how Spidey thought his life was perfect, with him having pretty much everything he ever wished for but it was painfully obvious it wouldn't last.

    I liked most of the interactions between the characters, and some of the minor stuff like Iron Spider creating his own Spider-Sense. Some of the gags fell a little flat (like the couple of sarcasm lines) but I admit I chuckled at Nick Fury revealing the Tricarrier was a "her". The first fight between the Spiders and Doc Ock this season was good, but the villain's plan to infiltrate the Tricarrier was pretty predictable. Also predictable we would be seeing Arnim Zola again on the show, but the Goblin soldiers were a pretty nice surprise and did offer some decent adversaries for the heroes to fight throughout the story.

    Doc Ock's new design looks both cool and creepy, but I was expecting some kind of explanation as to why he changed so much. The Swarm nano-bots were shown to change him, but that didn't make much sense to me. I could understand him changing his armor and having a Hydra logo on his chest, but why disfigure himself like that.

    The action was good and the ending with Spidey encountering a mysterious new Spider was done pretty well.

    Part 2 was better, with the new Scarlet Spider being a pretty great addition to the cast. I liked his design and the way he was portrayed here. Also pretty cool that not everything was revealed about him (like his face, for example) but hopefully they will drop some more hints along the way and eventually explain his history instead of completely ignoring him. I liked how Scarlet was more aggressive and how he called out Spidey for not being all that funny. He got a little too arrogant by the end of the episode though so hopefully the next episodes won't make him too annoying.

    The Osborn sub-plot was pretty cool and a nice surprise that Norman planned ahead and seemingly really doesn't want to become the Goblin ever again. Kraven the Hunter, on the other hand, wasn't that necessary to the story and appeared to me only like an attempt at foreshadowing that the Sinister Six will return later on. The rest of the story played out nicely though the plan to send Zola off into outer space seemed kind of silly.

    There was some stuff that I think could have been done better but overall, I liked this season premiere and am looking forward to more of this show, if only to see more of this version of the Scarlet Spider.

    I forgot about that, nice catch. Personally I like the classic costume but this newer version looks cool and fits in nicely with the other Web Warriors.

    In Spidey's narration of Part 1 at the start of the second episode, he mentioned Fury is injured and missing. Which makes it even stranger.

    You might have to wait a while for that, since I kind of doubt we'll be seeing Wolverine again or any of the other X-Men on the show anytime soon. But I agree it would be pretty cool.

    Yeah, from what I can tell he said "I escaped him years ago". I guess one could confuse him with 10.
     
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