"Twin Peaks" Series Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Entertainment Board' started by KYO'NYUU IMOUTO, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Twin Peaks "The Return: Part 15"

    I would have liked it if we had gotten more this episode, but in truth, even if the mythology could have (and should have) been pushed farther, I think it's important we got the character stuff we did. I kind of don't care about what happens with Big Ed, Norma, and Nadine, but it's been 25 freaking years. Not to resolve it would be storytelling malpractice. The fact that Lynch does here tells me he understands that stories DO have endings, and is planning to give us one (whatever it is).

    Similarly, as sad as I am that Catherin Coulson died, I am relieved Lynch was insightful enough to see it coming, and give Margaret Lanterman an entirely moving death scene. Coulson plays the heck out of it, and I imagine there probably wasn't a dry eye on the set when she did it. This must have been VERY painful for both Lynch and Coulson, in a way very few scenes are. This is not just our goodbye with the Log Lady. It's Lynch's goodbye to Coulson. And I feel after this scene, that we've all earned this. This will probably be one of the most special scenes of the relaunch. Although I kinda want to smack Hawk for not comforting her more, and being so stoic as she's pouring her heart out.

    I predict Cooper is gonna be normal next week. Which is partly why it's so frustrating the last we saw of Dougie was him electrocuting himself. It's been hinted that in order for Cooper to get his "self" back, Dougie would have to "die". I think sticking a fork into an electrical socket qualifies.

    I have no idea what happened to Gersten Haywood in the 25 year interim. It actually bums me out thinking out it. Maybe Doc Haywood should have spent less time Skyping and catching trout, and instead taking care of his mess daughter.

    Interesting that Bobby and James seem to hold no animosity towards each other anymore. What is especially interesting is that JAMES was the "nice guy" on the original series, and Bobby the legit criminal. It's interesting their roles have been reversed, even if current Jimmy is still a thousand times more decent than teenage Bobby.

    Who is Judy? I would guess the person who unlocked the door. Interesting way to work around David Bowie's death, and just based on how fudged up things were getting, I knew after it was revealed Jeffries was still alive, that there was no chance Mr. C was going to get the upper hand and kill him (whatever he was). I love the idea that one of the "good guys" from the original series has so fully absorbed and embraced their destinies with the Lodges, that they can actually punk The Familiars with no effort. It's a tragedy neither Cooper nor Major Briggs got to that point, but at some point Philip Jeffries stared into the brink of darkness and said, "I'll be running this place inside of a week." I love that.

    Betting Mr. C tells Richard next week he's his father. Whether he admits it's because he raped his mother while she was still in a coma is TBD.

    I DON'T love the Audrey stuff though. What I dislike about it is it seems to be a thread Lynch set up so late precisely because he has no plans to resolve it, and just wants to get the audience to ask the big questions. Which is fine. For any other character besides Audrey Horne. Outside of Laura Palmer, Sherilyn Fenn was practically the female lead on the original series. I want some closure for Audrey and Coop, dang it!

    Speaking of Sherilyn Fenn, she and Madchen Amick are not the only middle aged actresses who still look like goddesses. I just realize Chantal is Jennifer Jason Leigh, and she could pass for somebody in her 30's. The Fast Times fan in me is very happy. I think Phoebe Cates deserves to have aged as graciously too.

    The scene at the end in the Road House was very striking and creepy, but I predict like most of the Road House scenes this season, it will have nothing to do with anything.

    Love the Margaret Lanterman dedication card in the credits, the first one ever given for a Twin Peaks character who died. I think the Log Lady earned it.

    Freddie the green hand guy being arrested and put in the Sheriff's station, strikes me as the show putting all of the major Twin Peaks characters in place. Whether Gordon, Albert, Diane, and Coop join them for the grand finale is to be determined, but Lynch seems to be making sure the Big Mythology characters that reside in Twin Peaks, are all in the Sheriff's station.

    Good week, although with three hours left, I wish it were better. ****.
     
  2. Road to Gotham

    Road to Gotham Well-Known Member

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    Instead of ending the episode with the usual band number, I wish they would have ended the episode with the death of the Log Lady.

    I admit after watching the episodes, reading recaps of the episode, and reading Fone Bond postings,
    I am still lost on whats going on about 75% of the time.
     
  3. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    I don't want to speculate who Judy is because everyone has a theory and I have a feeling none of them are correct.
     
  4. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    I think it is more than likely Lynch will NEVER reveal who Judy is.
     
  5. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Twin Peaks "The Return, Part 16"

    Literally the episode we have waited 25 years for.

    I have no idea what is going to happen in next week's finale. I have no clue if Lynch is going to satisfy us, stick us with a cliffhanger again, or do something ambiguous. What I am certain of is it's going to amazing.

    Cooper's goodbye to Janey E was SO moving to me, because you can tell he actually loves her and Sonny Jim. But he knows he doesn't belong there. And he is insightful enough to task the One-Armed Man to restore Dougie when all is said and done. Hopefully under Cooper's influence, instead of Mr. C's, so he won't have all of the previous Dougie's failings.

    Did not expect Diane to be a doppelganger, but the fact that Mr. C raped her was not a surprise. What was it that Tammy called those beings? Do we have a proper name for them now?

    I am not upset at all at what happened to Hutch and Chantal. I frankly consider them dying tying up a loose end. What kind of neighborhood is this?

    I have to say the Mitchum Brothers are literally the best characters either Robert Knepper or Jim Belushi have ever played. I love them both so much, and when Cooper describes them as having hearts of gold, and promising to vouch for them to law enforcement, I am extremely happy.

    When Mr. C says "Goodbye my, son," upon Richard's death, that was like the most cold-blooded thing ever. What is cool about it is that Lynch already knows people are going to immediately theorize that Richard is Mr. C's kid, so he doesn't bother (or even NEED) to explain it any further. Which is what is so cool about David Lynch. He's willing to let things speak for themselves, and have the audience figure things out on their own, without being spoonfed. Contrary to popular opinion, Twin Peaks has a Narrative that makes sense, and that some people can definitely follow. But you have to put in some of the work yourself. A lot of people are confused by Twin Peaks. I am not for the simple reason that I am obsessed with it, and have gone over it backwards and forwards. And once you do that, things totally fit.

    I suspect part of the reason Jerry was as upset as he was, is that he knew it was Richard who died. I don't see how, because he was using the binoculars backwards, and it was night out, but that's the only reason I can see him being that personally devastated.

    I love the stuff with Audrey. For the first time ever. Because it hints that it WILL be resolved, which is something none of the previous weeks did. Maybe she's insane, maybe she isn't. But it seems to me she is trapped in a Lodge, either White or Black, or possibly one we haven't heard of before. Probably by Mr. C. And it is going to be Dale Cooper coming to her rescue. I am sure of it. That dance just reminded me that Sherilyn Fenn still makes me all hot and bothered, and I still ship her and Coop after all. 25 years later. C'mon, Coop. Your woman needs you.

    "I AM the FBI." If any Twin Peaks fan did not punch the air and cheer at that, you aren't really a Twin Peaks fans.

    So amazing. This relaunch is everything I could have hoped for. Thank you, Mark Frost and David Lynch. *****.
     
  6. Road to Gotham

    Road to Gotham Well-Known Member

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    Special Agent Dale Cooper is BACK, Baby!. And headed towards to Twin Peaks. YAY! :D
     
  7. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    It was hard after getting beaten down with Dougie the whole season to get excited. Hopefully the last two episodes make up for it. Like Cooper better be back in Twin Peaks the very next episode.

    Keep in mind, some entire subplots will take episodes off this season.

    Also, how is Jerry Horne not dead yet after being lost in the woods for days? He couldn't have had enough supplies to live on.
     
  8. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    I am honestly a little bit terrified about tonight. I have literally waited for an ending to Twin Peaks for 25 years. Now that it's here, will it possibly live up to my expectations? We'll find out in a little over 13 hours.
     
  9. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Less than two hours.
     
  10. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Here we go.

    "I have a feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange."
     
  11. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Twin Peaks "The Return: Part 17"

    Time travel? Did Coop actually prevent Laura Palmer's murder? Is Pete fishing in an alternate timeline? So many questions.

    I love that they used CGI to convincingly recreate Frank Silva as BOB. That was a pretty cool climax. Everyone was there.

    I honestly don't have too much to say about this part, other to say that I mostly liked it. I wasn't thrilled with the ending, but the rest of the episode was great. ****.

    Twin Peaks "The Return: Part 18"

    Underwhelming and disappointing, especially since it turns out last week was the last we've seen of Audrey Horne. I was expecting a mindblowing story point with her and they didn't even bother.

    I'll say one thing: Laura Dern still looks great naked. If that's not a body double, bravo.

    I imagine Cooper seeing her note where she calls him Richard and herself Linda sort of hints to me about what happens to the people in Lynch films after the second person wakes up in an entirely new identity. This is what happens once Betty and Rita are gone to everybody else in the universe. I believe this scene is done to show us a person on the other side of that for once.

    Similarly, the ending, and the hint that this is NOT 2017, and either takes place later or sooner, is another thing to hint that the Universe was woken up to a new identity, with Coop being the only one aware things changed. To be blunt, I hate this idea. But to be blunter than that, it's still a MUCH better ending than what we were stuck with for 25 years. This is not the ending I would have liked, or that I hoped for. But it is far better than having Coop stuck in the Black Lodge forever.

    Besides, not everything in the Universe seems to have reset, at least not all at once. Diane appears to be who she is in Glastonbury Grove, at least until she and Coop boink. And Coop is still FBI. And Janey-E and Dougie are clearly reunited. Whatever this potential new universe is, it's not so bad.

    I was disappointed, but it's not like this is the first time. The last time I was outright heartbroken. I'll take disappointed any day of the week. **1/2.
     
  12. Road to Gotham

    Road to Gotham Well-Known Member

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    What a STRANGE and UNSATISFYING ending this was for me.
    Coopers's time in Twin Peaks was way too short.
    Was hoping for more interaction between the characters we know.
     
  13. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Jeff Jensen's EW recap of the finale is finally up. Worth the wait.

    http://ew.com/recap/twin-peaks-season-3-finale/

    After reading it, I've come to the conclusion that Jensen is mildly crazy. Which means he's the right guy to recap the show.

    I also posted something in my Un-Iverse thread on The Drawing Board that I should repost here:

    A LOT of people were disappointed with that ending. Even I think it kind of sucked. But it helped me out a TON creatively so I am unable to commiserate with everyone else. Because the ending of Twin Peaks sucked, the ending to The Un-Iverse is now gonna be great.
     
  14. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Jeff Jensen is leaving Entertainment Weekly, but before he went, he did an excellent interview with David Lynch.

    http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/15/david-lynch-twin-peaks-finale/

    Bottom line: Lynch is not as adverse to more Twin Peaks as other news studios have reported. But he is also pragmatic. If it does happen, we wouldn't see it for at least four years. As of now, the finale just aired, and it's too early for Lynch to think about it. But if Showtime is game, and if Lynch (who is in his mid-seventies) lives another decade, it's not out of the question.

    I actually would prefer to live with the ending we got. It was unsatisfying, but a million times better than Season 2's, and I feel that if it did come back, Lynch would be inclined to stick us with an even worse ending. But like The Return, I feel any potential season 4 to Twin Peaks would wind up satisfying in its own way, no matter what the ending. Even if I didn't like the ending here, I would be lying if I didn't say the rest of the new season was amazing.

    Looking forward to The Final Dossier. Amazon has pre-order for it for less than 15 bucks. Definitely getting it and maybe at LEAST getting a clue of what happened to Audrey.

     
  15. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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  16. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Major spoilers for The Final Dossier below. Read the book before the review. But if you aren't going to, the review will give you the major spoilers you want without having to pay for the book.

    Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier By Mark Frost
    A lot of Peaks Freaks were disappointed by the series finale. And a lot of Peaks Freaks were P.O.-ed that it looks like the Secret History Of Twin Peaks book they shelled out money for had nothing to do with anything. Pull the trigger. Buy this book. It fixes both of those complaints. Completely.

    In typical Twin Peaks fashion, it doesn't answer any of the questions. But it points out the right ones to be asking, which is pretty much the best thing a mystery can do for a person. Especially if it seems impossible and unsolved. I have always maintained that there is a cohesive mythology behind Twin Peaks that holds together the way the mythology from The X-Files always falls apart. There ARE answers somewhere in Mark Frost's story Bible that we either haven't gotten to yet, or are something we are supposed to figure out ourselves. And what this book does is remind me that this latest ending feels different than the "Screw You!" cliffhanger of season two. It doesn't so much leave balls in the air, as make you question what is going on. And after reading this book and getting a few clues (if not answers) about what was going on, I love that Twin Peaks is the kind of show willing to challenge the viewer. And this book is amazing (and necessary in my mind) for helping the viewer understand what to make of what they just witnessed. There is an answer. It's not weirdness for the sake of weirdness. But Lynch trusts us each to come up with our own explanations, and Mark Frost points us in the right direction here. Spoilers ahead.

    Leo Johnson: Yup. Died. But in perhaps the funniest and most infuriating turn of events, the spiders didn't kill him. Reading Albert Rosenfeld's autopsy report is worth every cent I spent on the book. And it's the first freaking chapter! But no, Leo was shot five times by an unknown assailant. The New Archivist Tammy Preston suspects it was Windom Earle, but since I know more about Earle's fate than she does, I am almost positive it was Mr. C instead, (but she had no way of knowing that). Best part of the autopsy was Albert poking fun at the story hole of the original finale's: Tarantula venom isn't actually toxic enough to kill a person. How did Earle not know that? He could be very well speaking of David Lynch there. Funnest Albert fact is learning he possesses a vinyl jazz record collection numbering in the thousands.

    The Jade Ring. Trump's worn it. The Dossier is loathe to name him by name, but Preston's disdain for the guy is evident (as is Mark Frost's). Apparent Lana Milford tried to make him her new sugar daddy until she probably read his accounting books and realized he wasn't actually rich, which is pretty much the most fabulous Trump slam I have ever heard. I have always said if I could do 2016 over again and either have Trump lose or Twin Peaks come back, I'd regretfully prefer Trump losing. 2016-17 has been a net loss that Twin Peaks was NOT able to make up for. That one joke? Helps. A lot.

    Audrey Horne. No definitive answers here, but it hints that the idea that she is in a treatment facility is probably a guess in the correct direction. He loveless marriage to an accountant is also a definite thing. But I still don't get why she'd keep a picture of Cooper after all that. Maybe she IS crazy.

    Annie Blackburn: This one amazes me. As horribly sad as her ending turned out, I love that I understand it better than the actual Archivist. Preston is an uncannily good detective, and has gotten almost as far as the audience has in understanding what might be going on, but the Annie thing is perfect. When she came back she was catatonic, and didn't speak (shades of Dougie Jones?). Until one day on the anniversary of her reappearance she says two words: "I'm fine." That. Is. AMAZEBALLS. I bet Lynch cracked up when he read that, and I love that she crazily says it every year at the exact same time of the anniversary. I hated the original ending to Twin Peaks. Because of that, I no longer do.

    Sarah Palmer. Our guess that she was the young girl in "Got A Light?" that swallowed that bug as she slept near the atomic bomb site seems to be correct. Which shows the value in not answering the questions, but pointing them out instead. It also reveals that she was later involved in an altercation at a bar where a guy's neck got ripped out. We saw that, but the book confirms it actually happened, and she wasn't just crazy and imagining it.

    Windom Earle. This reveals that Earle was actually the serial killer he and Cooper were tracking in the case that brought them together (NOT Bob). He was always nuts, and was the one who pushed Cooper and his wife together by manipulating them into it. The book also acknowledges the Twin Peaks books of the 90's by saying "Diane" probably redacted and changed a bit of the tapes' actual contents when it was written down for "personal reasons". It's a really cool idea to be able to acknowledge the earlier books while being able to change what is needed for this story.

    Philip Jeffries. I said as I was watching "The Return", that Philip Jeffries' fate struck me as entirely different than Cooper's and Major Briggs'. Cooper and Briggs were victims of the Lodge, and the familiars, and the tulpas, and the what have yous. Philip Jeffries on the other hand looked into the eyes of Hell and decided he'd be running the place inside a week. Preston theorizes about Joudy here. Joudy from mythology is the female equivalent of Baal. Who is known to us now as Beelzebub. Maybe it was not the face of God that turned Jeffries into a teapot.

    That idea also gives added significance to the idea that Jeffries told Mr. C he had met Judy before.

    Jeffries in Buenos Aires was also mentioned, so The Missing Pieces are canon too.

    The Double: Mr. C was behind the glass box in New York City, and was the boss who had that kid watch it for The Entity or Cooper. It is speculated by Preston that because of his criminal empire, Mr. C was possibly a billionaire.

    Dr. Jacoby: Interestingly, one of the fascinating things about Jacoby's later years that Preston notes is that after 9/11, the quack psychiatrist who had no idea his most famous client was raped and killed by her own father turned out to be right about everything. She kind of details the fact that Jacoby correctly predicted everything negative that would occur from that, and expresses admiration for the fact that all of the money from the shovels he has sold does NOT line his own pockets, but instead goes to progressive charities. You kind of thought watching the series that the golden shovels were a sell-out cash grab to the rubes. And the dossier makes me realize this isn't the case.

    Do you know what else the Dossier made me realize? The Bookhouse Boys group is very similar to a militia. But Preston notes there is patriotic legitimacy behind it and the backing of the local law enforcement. It's not the same thing as the Libertarian gun fetishists at all, which surprised her. It surprised me too, because I never noticed the similarities until an outside person brought them up.

    Preston quotes an amazing passage from Margaret Coulson (AKA Lanterman, AKA the Log Lady) that Hawk read at her funeral, and says it sort of made her believe in a higher power in the sense that she kind of got the feeling that someday, the Log Lady is someone she is going to meet somewhere. That's a really cool idea to me.

    And finally the book addresses the central puzzle left by the end of the finale. Was Laura Palmer actually killed? Preston and I assume the rest of the FBI remember the actual history, but the newspaper clippings and memories of the townsfolk have shifted to "she disappeared". Preston is alarmed that people think that Laura was NOT in that train car and simply vanished. And when she explains isn't so this to the townspeople, they get a dull look and then sort of agree with her version of events. In this new reality of memories, Leland committed suicide a couple of years later, and Sarah is still on the hook for killing a trucker.

    Leland's suicide raises questions. Is Maddie still alive? Was the Theresa Banks case ever solved? It's interesting to think about the ways the world is better and worse for Laura not being killed.

    The question this raises for me is was that actually Laura Palmer at the end? What year WAS it? Because the owner of the house still should have been Sarah Palmer. My guess is that Cooper and Diane vanished into a new universe (and Diane did it once more as Linda for good measure) with only Cooper understanding that is what happened, and Diane pulling a Betty / Diane from Mulholland Dr., and not realizing she's a different person. The book says Cooper and Diane disappeared after the thing with BOB in the Sheriff's station, and haven't been heard from since. The book also speculates that time travel was involved with Philip Jeffries' appearance in Philadelphia in 1989 (it would explain his disorientation upon learning what year it was), which leads me to wonder if Cooper wondering the year is the correct question. It doesn't answer if she's Laura Palmer, or even if she knows she's Laura Palmer, but time travel and parallel universe crossing seem to be the most likely explanation to me. And what I like about the book is that that was my first guess upon seeing it over the air. And the book sort of validated not the actual guess itself, but the fact that I made it, which shows that Frost and Lynch get what makes audiences tick better than Twin Peaks' weird reputation suggests. It's the fact that none of the major revelations in the book surprised me (outside of the "I'm fine" thing) which is why I loved the book. It made me feel more comfortable by validating my own interpretation. And I think the genius thing about the book is that even if your interpretation is completely different than mine, it's just as possible the book validates THAT interpretation too.

    The Twin Peaks Universe we love did NOT just disappear. It's still there, and all of the characters like Norma and Ed still got their happy endings. It's just something about the universe has changed and we aren't quite aware of what it is.

    I am always so frustrated with Lynch when he refuses to explain himself in interviews. His perspective that it's up for the viewer to decide has always been "Not good enough!" in my mind. Maybe I was wrong. Because if my guesses are as close as what the book made seem, maybe I'm better at figuring this stuff out than I ever realized. And maybe Lynch knew that about me the entire time, and was simply treating me like an adult. And this book makes me feel like all of my obsessions with Twin Peaks, whether my guesses were right, or far off the mark, were right to the person who mattered: Me. And Twin Peaks stops being just a personal passion project for David Lynch, but it's pretty much the most personal of my fandoms ever, because it's the only fandom that I have as much responsibility as the creator in explaining what I just saw. And it's an incredibly moving and meaningful thing to realize upon the end of this book and Preston's promise to keep fighting, even in a world that scares her and that she doesn't recognize. And suddenly, I am no longer detached to any part of the story. I am a part of it. And that kind of blows my mind.

    This book is amazing. I highly recommend it. *****.
     
    #36 Fone Bone, Dec 3, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 7:57 AM

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