"The Flash (2014)" Season Four Talkback (Spoilers)

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Dudley

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#81
After watching a good “superhero” show like The Gifted, it’s hard to get back into the DC shows. The writing just isn’t that great.
Also, I completely don’t care about Barry’s situation. He could’ve gotten this problem fixed with super speed, had plenty of evidence to prove him innocent as Fone Bone said, and for Pete’s sake, why didn’t Irish record Ms. Devoe’s confession. Why is Iris so damn useless.

Anyway, I don’t really care too much what’s happening anymore. I guess at this point it’ll be fun to see how Barry will be proven innocent, because it will happen eventually.


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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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#82
After watching a good “superhero” show like The Gifted, it’s hard to get back into the DC shows. The writing just isn’t that great.
Also, I completely don’t care about Barry’s situation. He could’ve gotten this problem fixed with super speed, had plenty of evidence to prove him innocent as Fone Bone said, and for Pete’s sake, why didn’t Irish record Ms. Devoe’s confession. Why is Iris so damn useless.
Yeah, Iris not doing anything with the confession puzzled me but I guessed it would be her word against Mrs. Devoe. But when you point out she could have recorded it, it reminds me that everyone these days has a phone. That is a genuine plothole.
 

hobbyfan

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#83
...and this is the reason why I'm staying away from The Flash until the whole "Barry in jail" arc is finished.

To me, I have a feeling that one of the plans for the writers this season was to have a number of episodes that don't depict Barry suiting up as The Flash. However, at the same time, they are not willing to have Grant Gustin sit out a few episodes at the start of the season, and thus we end up getting stuck with the garbage that we've been seeing not only in this episode, but in the "#Feminism" episode and the "Thinker origin story" episode as well.

Seriously, is it asking too much to hold off Barry returning from the Speed Force until the sweeps period and have the first few episodes be about Wally filling in for Barry, with the series slowly building up The Thinker being a legitimate threat to the point where it becomes obvious that Team Flash will need Barry to stop him (with him making his grand return around the time of the big crossover event of the season)?
While none of us knows the answer to that particular riddle, I'd say the network may have had something to do with Barry being there from the first episode of the season, rather than wait until the November sweeps began (which would have been week 5). Marketing suits probably think it's more important if the lead is there from the go, rather than have him sidelined for a month. In another era, you'd have read about contract disputes and stars holding out, and today's network suits don't want their intentions known and/or misinterpreted by a panicky fan base.

By comparison, while Reign over on Supergirl still hasn't been fully developed (i.e. motive), she is further along than the other big bads.
 

TnAdct1

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Aug 3, 2002
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#84
While none of us knows the answer to that particular riddle, I'd say the network may have had something to do with Barry being there from the first episode of the season, rather than wait until the November sweeps began (which would have been week 5). Marketing suits probably think it's more important if the lead is there from the go, rather than have him sidelined for a month. In another era, you'd have read about contract disputes and stars holding out, and today's network suits don't want their intentions known and/or misinterpreted by a panicky fan base.
The problem with the network's thinking: most grown-ups that are watching The Flash are the type that grew up with Wally West as the titular hero (be it the post-Crisis comics or the DCAU). As such, they are not going to be upset if the first few episodes of season had him as the hero instead of bringing back Barry in the very first episode of the season.
 

hobbyfan

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#85
The problem with the network's thinking: most grown-ups that are watching The Flash are the type that grew up with Wally West as the titular hero (be it the post-Crisis comics or the DCAU). As such, they are not going to be upset if the first few episodes of season had him as the hero instead of bringing back Barry in the very first episode of the season.
There goes that theory. Back to incompetent writers, I suppose.
 

The Penguin

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#87
"The Elongated Knight Rises"
Tuesday, January 23, 2018 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
When a familiar villain returns to terrorize Central City, Ralph must rise up to defend the innocent while Barry is detained by his trial.
 

hobbyfan

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#88
Ralph is finally christened Elongated Man. Whee. The white suit is gone.

Trickster II, Axel Walker, returns, with Prank. Hard to get around why James Jesse, the first Trickster, didn't return, but we know the reason why, don't we, kids? (Mark Hamill being, you know, busy.) Prank does nothing for me.

Big Sir (Bill Goldberg!) is here for the duration. I believe this is his first TV role, having done a few movies back in the day. Well, this is better than "Looney Tunes Back in Action", after all.

Dr. Shrinker? Do the Kroffts know about next week's villain, since he was their creation? (A ripoff of Dr. Cyclops, I know, but...)
 

Fone Bone

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#89
The Flash "The Elongated Knight Rises"

Man, I really loved that.

Here's the interesting thing about me. I am pretty easy to please with entertainment. I am not a snob, and it does not take much for me to enjoy something. Which is why the Arrowverse's shakiness over the past couple of years has been so frustrating. If I had been the kind of fan asking for the moon, I'd understand being let-down every week. I don't expect every show I watch to be Breaking Bad or The Wire. Anyone who does is silly. And it's ridiculous that the Arrowverse has failed my very easy standards recently.

Except tonight I enjoyed myself. My favorite stuff is the stuff with Barry in prison. I love the subtext that once he's in there things are better for everyone. That's Barry. And it makes sense that Henry made some legit friends in there. And Dave pretty quickly realize that obligations to the Allen family are pretty much lifetime because the Allens are never going to give up on you. And that is not a commitment someone like Dave will wind up regretting.

I thought the Trickster stuff was weak, pretty much because it's only fun when Mark Hamill is there. Prank seems pretty convinced Jesse doesn't care about his family. But that is NOT how Hamill played it in his guest role at all so I think she's wrong.

Question: If Ralph is totally afraid of being in mortal danger, why did he become a cop? That bit did not ring true to me.

I like that when Killer Frost makes an evil quip Vibe's all "Nice!" He totally forgot he was supposed to be curbing her worst impulses in that moment. It was funny.

I thought it was sweet when Barry vibrated his and Iris' hands through the glass so they could touch.

Return of Beebo. That doll never stops being punished.

Ralph has never heard of Kryptonite. Makes sense. We haven't seen a Superman on Earth 1 yet, so I imagine only the hero teams who have teamed up with Supergirl would have heard about it.

Who is the girl with the Futurama alphabet at the end? We'll find out soon enough.

I love the "Green" (as in granola, not inexperienced) hostage-taker. He was funny, and so were his alarmed reactions to Ralph's behavior.

Fun episode that passed my minimal standards. ****1/2.
 
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hobbyfan

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#91
I thought it was spelled Big Sur, too, after that part of California, but, nope. Had to refresh my memory. If they wanted the Big Sir from the comics (whose real name was Dufus), they would not have gotten Bill Goldberg. Just sayin'.
 

hobbyfan

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#94
Ok, so this week's villain seems to be the same guy that committed a murder years earlier that put Dave in prison. Unrepentant, he's now a meta, and uninteresting.

Cecile's suddenly a telepath. Watch. We'll find out she was on that bus.

Mrs. Devoe buys off the warden to trap Barry. Give me a break. Stop the pain.
 

Fone Bone

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#97
The Flash "Honey, I Shrunk Team Flash"

The writing on this show is definitely flawed, but I can't bring myself to fault it too badly here. There seemed to be specific reasons why some parts of this episode were as badly written as they were. Which is essential for good writing: Making bad writing not seem bad. It is the biggest reason I think most superhero projects are unsuccessful as far as writing goes. Usually the superhero comics and shows I read and watch seem worse written than they are because they are unable to disguise the bad writing as anything but. Bad writing is necessary for genre. You cannot tell a sci-fi or fantasy story without it. The good genre projects make the bad writing seem good, or at least justified. Which this episode did, as clumsily thought out as it seemed.

I mean, it's dumb that the criminal of the week was the one who framed Big Sir. But the show takes the tack this is all somehow a part of Thinker's master plan, and it is NOT actually a coincidence, which makes the bad writing seem almost good. And frankly, I would have accepted the idea even if they didn't bother to do this. That way they only have to spend a single episode on both plots instead of stretching it out to two.

I love Harry this episode. I love that he is the most invested in freeing Barry of anyone, including Iris and Joe, and I love that he immediately knew they had to take on Big Sir's case. Simply because Barry has never asked them for anything from prison before. Ed Cavanaugh is becoming this show's MVP. It is very clear that no matter what Harrison Welles he plays, he is irreplaceable on this show.

Cecile is an idiot. She has no idea WHY everyone is unhappy she has that specific power? Seriously. Mind-reading is literally the superpower I want least (or at least after mind control). It would be a nightmare for everyone I knew, and I imagine upon having this power for 24 hours, my Aspie self would have no friends left. It is a sucky power, which is why X-Men always shows Xavier and Jean struggling with it so much. Cecile is dumb enough to think it's fun and cool. And somebody who thinks that about that specific power is probably one of those people who should never have it in the first place.

I love everyone's reactions to tiny Cisco and Ralph. Ralph was a scream, especially after Iris stepped on him like bubblegum. I also was amused at his confused expression as to why StarLabs had that particular Lego model. Trust me, Ralph, Season 3 doesn't get any better when you witness it either.

As for Barry freeing Big Sir, and bringing him to his dream life halfway around the world, I had big smiles at that. But I'm betting now Big Sir knows Barry is Flash. There is no other explanation.

It should figure the warden was dirty. They wouldn't have bothered hiring Richard Brooks if he was boring and vanilla.

For the record, as of now, Thinker's master plan seems kind of screwy. He wants Barry outed to the warden and sold to that Metahuman chick? Why? Thinker already won. He's basically adding a bunch of variables to a scenario he already had a firm control of. I understand there is no reward without risk. I just cannot picture what the potential reward of that could possibly be, and why it's worth risking upending everything.

And it is risking that. The warden has got to know that if Barry is the Flash, that means he's innocent of his crime. That is not information that should be out there, especially to somebody as untrustworthy as him. If Thinker wanted to out the Flash, he should have just done it. If the Warden does it, he may wind up doing it in exchange for a plea deal. It's not like Barry would stay in prison if he was outed. And if his goal was to out him all along, there was no need to send him to prison. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around Thinker's thought processes. That's kind of the point of the character though, so there is every possibility I'm supposed to think this is nuts.

Did the mayor of Central City just say she hated the City, in public, on-camera? I understand modern politics have proven that you don't need to have even rudimentary social skills to run for office, but even Donald Trump never outright said the words "I hate America" on camera. He said everything but, but there IS a limit. At least I'd hope so.

This episode was badly written, but they came up with some plausible scenarios which perhaps made it not actually seem that way. We'll see. This season may not be a wash just yet. ***1/2.
 
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Otaku-sempai

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#99
Well, one of the challenges of writing a super-hero series is taking the comic-book pseudoscience and trying to make it feel real to the audience. That can be difficult and seems to be something that the Flash writers struggle with.
 

Magmaster12

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Forget Science, we still have no clue how the heck anyone at Star Labs is getting paid, the writers have already seemed to completely drop the fact that Iris was a reporter or how they were trying to turn Star Labs into a museum. I wouldn't be surprised if the power went out the middle of a battle because no one has been paying the electric bill.