"The Flash (2014)" Season Four Talkback (Spoilers)

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hobbyfan

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Jun 9, 2002
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#63
Brainstorm, at least the 2011 model, was an enemy of Mr. Terrific when the latter had his own book. We barely get to know Dominic when Amunet takes him and sells him off to the Devoes so Thinker can transfer his mind into Dominic's body.

Then, Barry's framed for Cliff Devoe's "death". Bullcrap ending to take us in 2018. I'm not so sure I want to stick around when the writers keep throwing crap like this out and expect us to stick around for the entire season.

I said this last season, specifically when it came to Arrow. You try to extend the big bad over the course of the full season, build him/her up as best as able, but in this case, unlike over on Supergirl last night, for example, it doesn't work. You are being asked to assume that there will be a battle inside Dominic's mind for control near the end of the season, and Brainstorm will end up being a casualty at season's end.

What a way to go into a 5 week break. Buzzkiller. There's no need for any sort of swerve here, but the writers again demonstrate their lack of comics semantics. I will be back on 1/16, if only because it's premiere night for Black Lightning, but if things don't improve here.......
 

Road to Gotham

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Sep 5, 2003
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#64
Glad to see Ralph dropping his sleeze and turning a bit sweet. Hopefully this the way he will be from
now on.

WOW HOBBYFAN! I didn't know that was another Brainstorm around.
I always remember the JLA Villain with deuce cap like device on his head.
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Axel_Storm_(New_Earth)

Maybe this version of Brainstorm could should on Jay Garrick's Earth-3.
Where is John Wesley Shipp this season?
To be honest they really didn't know what to do with Jay last season.

Wish they would give Barry 16 solo episodes.
Wally and Jay 4 solo episodes each.
 

hobbyfan

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#65
I get they didn't want to use another speedster villain this season, but the flaws in the overall plan have been exposed. I said it last year. Break the season down into smaller arcs, say about 3-4 episodes apiece, with a Wally or Jay solo story, or the return of Jesse Quick, as a 1-shot "interlude". Do these idiots think of that? Nope.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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#66
The Flash "Don't Run"

That wasn't perfect for me (I'm going to miss the guy who played Devoe) but it was still a hell of a lot better than last season's winter cliffhanger. That made me dread the rest of the season. This made me excited for it.

And Devoe's is smart. Killing Barry is the longest of longshots, so it makes sense to frame him for a crime he will be unwilling to disprove to take him off the gameboard. What I don't get is what happens next. Why did Thinker even mess with Flash at all? He could have probably found Dominic and switched bodies under the radar if he had the mind to. Why does he need the Flash out of the way? What is the Enlightenment?

Iris choosing to save Caitlin was incredibly smart. I'd almost say selfless, but Iris is right that Barry can take of himself. The question that remains is can the Flash still operate if Barry is supposed to be in prison? He can pretty much escape from any normal jail and nobody's knows Barry's a Meta. Is it possible Barry will wind up saving the day each week while his secret I.D. has a bunch of pillows stuffed under his blanket in his jail cell? The specific nature of the Flash's powers make me wonder if even jail will be able to stop the Flash from operating in secret.

I love that Rory got them a wedding gift. Sure, it was a stolen bunch of toasters, but I loved that he bothered to do that much.

But seriously? An expresso machine from Oliver and Felicity? They might as well have pulled a Batman from JLU and simply given them cash for all of the sentiment expressed by that.

I would much rather get one of those cubes from Jessica Camacho than a break-up cube. I love that they are turning the hilariousness of that device's awkwardness and making it a running gag. I can't wait to see what embarrassing parallel universe cube is next.

Every time I see Katee Sackoff in something, I always think she's a MUCH less impressive actress than her filmography might indicate. The chick doesn't even know how to spell her first name right. She (and Starbuck) are nothing special.

When Devoe isn't in the creepy robot chair with the headgear, his scenes with his wife are quite intimate and moving. I am going to miss that.

Pretty good stopping point. ****.
 

TnAdct1

Ravioli, Ravioli
Aug 3, 2002
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#67
Iris choosing to save Caitlin was incredibly smart. I'd almost say selfless, but Iris is right that Barry can take of himself. The question that remains is can the Flash still operate if Barry is supposed to be in prison? He can pretty much escape from any normal jail and nobody's knows Barry's a Meta. Is it possible Barry will wind up saving the day each week while his secret I.D. has a bunch of pillows stuffed under his blanket in his jail cell? The specific nature of the Flash's powers make me wonder if even jail will be able to stop the Flash from operating in secret.
The main theory that I've been getting about the cliffhanger (especially with the preview for the next episode) is that The Thinker has left Barry with a sadistic choice. There's plenty of evidence that can easily prove that Barry was innocent. However, said evidence would also result in his secret identity as The Flash to be exposed (hence, why Barry stayed to get arrested at the end instead of leaving the scene of crime).

Yeah, I'm definitely not thrilled with this ending, as it reeked of "Arrow-style" writing.
 
Oct 28, 2010
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#68
I'm excited to see where they will go from here. I'm not sure the show will ever reach or surpass the heights of Season 1 (especially since we will probably never get a Captain Cold-led Rogues on this show) but this season has been way more enjoyable than the latter half of Season 2 and most of Season 3.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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#69
Somebody pointed out to me on another board that Barry has a ton of good alibis. There body was probably dead for awhile and Barry was with his family all night. Also, what was Devoe doing inside his house and why was he out of the chair when he was supposedly killed? A good lawyer would have a field day with this case without ever having to reveal Barry is the Flash.

Maybe Devoe isn't the great Thinker he says he is.
 

Dorko

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Jan 24, 2005
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#70
Somebody pointed out to me on another board that Barry has a ton of good alibis. There body was probably dead for awhile and Barry was with his family all night.
If many wasted hours spent watching cop shows has taught me anything, it's that "I was at home with my wife" isn't a super compelling alibi - they can't be compelled to testify and they have good reason to not want you jailed. While there are other witnesses, they include:
- his father-in-law/foster father (...really hoped they'd have used Flashpoint to make that less weird, was disappointed) who took part in the initial harassment of the DeVoes.
- His mother-in-law, whose husband was complicit in the harassment of the DeVoes.
- Cisco and Caitlin, who are the best witnesses of the bunch...but probably still have some stigma from helping a confessed murderer build a device that blew up, killed some people, and gave others super powers.
- Ralph Dibny, whose testimony would be...questionable, considering his past.
- A dude who is legally a deceased murderer on Earth One.
-Literally the dude framing him.

Plus, there's the time issue. The security alert on Barry's phone, as well as the phone call DeVoe made from the party, would certainly muck up the timeline for Barry's defense. Someone had to be there to trip the security system, Barry couldn't have made it from the party to his apartment in the time between the alert and the call, and fifty percent of the people found by the police at the apartment were wheelchair bound with the medical records to prove it.

Also, what was Devoe doing inside his house and why was he out of the chair when he was supposedly killed? A good lawyer would have a field day with this case without ever having to reveal Barry is the Flash.
One imagines that Mrs. DeVoe is going to claim Barry kidnapped her husband, hence why he'd be in Barry's home without his chair - not like he'd be able to put up much of a fight in his physical condition.
 

TnAdct1

Ravioli, Ravioli
Aug 3, 2002
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#71
In response to Fone Bone and Dorko's post: yeah, this is definitely not a good way to pull off the fall finale of the season this time around, as the idea is that "Thinker is trying to force Barry to make a sadistic choice" in a matter that, in real life, is somewhat poorly conceived (not the first time I dealt with this kind of dumb supervillain planning, given the events of Tiger and Bunny) and feels more like something that you see in Arrow than The Flash.
 

hobbyfan

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#72
Poorly planned, IMPO. The writers didn't think things through, and didn't develop Devoe's agenda enough to get us to understand his motivation. Same thing with Cayden James on Arrow. Both are boring, one-trick ponies about as entertaining as watching paint dry. The writers on this episode have zero comics experience, from the looks of things.

Santayana, anyone? Seems this is almost as bad, if not worse, than season 4 of Arrow.....
 

TnAdct1

Ravioli, Ravioli
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#73
Poorly planned, IMPO. The writers didn't think things through, and didn't develop Devoe's agenda enough to get us to understand his motivation.
To me, while I can see what the writers are doing this time around (to have Team Flash be aware of the villain early on instead of a big reveal later in the season), the problems stem from having the reveal happen a little too early (leading to a fall finale that has Devoe transferring his mind to another person and subsequently framing Barry for his death) and the showrunners also dealing with the big crossover event as well.
 

The Penguin

All Hail the King!
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#74
Midseason premiere! Right now on The CW.

"The Trial of The Flash"
Tuesday, January 16, 2018 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
As Barry’s trial for the murder of Clifford DeVoe begins, Iris and Joe must decide how far they are willing to go to keep Barry out of prison.
 

hobbyfan

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Jun 9, 2002
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#75
As the E-trade baby once put it, this is weak, man. We know Barry's innocent. The trick over the next 4 months is proving it and putting a stop to Devoe/Thinker/Brainstorm. Good thing there's a better show on at 9 now.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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#78
The Flash "The Trial Of The Flash"

That did not work. Why did no-one bring up Barry's multiple alibis? Why did no-one ask why Devoe was in Barry's apartment without his wheelchair? Why did no-one ask why Mrs. Devoe didn't bring up her relationship with Dominic with the defense and the prosecution if it was innocent? The reason the episode didn't work is because the evidence was NOT iron-clad, and a decent defense attorney could have poked holes in it. The idea that an attorney who is usually a DA didn't think to ask these questions is laughable.

I think the DA is in cahoots with Thinker. The judge might be too, but I think the judge may simply be genuinely stupid. He has never seen a worse criminal than Barry Allen? In Central City no less? That guy shouldn't be on the bench for rank idiocy alone.

Iris in the courthouse was the most frustrating act break ever. And considering that Barry stopped her once the commercial ended, it was frustrating for the wrong reasons.

The one thing I liked was Ralph convincing Joe not to plant evidence. That was a great scene. But it was the only great scene.

I was unlike other Flash fans who hated the idea of Barry getting arrested and thought it was dumb. I gave them the benefit of the doubt that it could potentially lead somewhere interesting. That was a mistake. That episode sucked. *.
 

hobbyfan

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#79
This again underscores an overall problem with the writers on these shows. Not enough character development for the villain(s) to justify this being a season-long arc. No attention to detail.

Consider the problem prevalent this season:

Supergirl: Reign/Samantha has not been fully developed, either, as noted in that series' thread, as the writers would prefer to string this out with as little detail as possible over the course of the season, especially now that we know the show goes back into hibernation after the February 5 episode (BOO!). With Superman absent, they could've saved Reign for season 4 or later, IMPO.

Arrow: Cayden James is not as interesting as hoped, and actually bores me. They could've cast Ben Stein in the role instead of Michael Emerson, and it'd be the same thing.;)

Flash: The curse of bad writing beyond season 2 has stuck with this show, as we've seen. As Fone Bone describes, this reads like lazy writing, another case where the overarching plot has not been completely laid out in advance, and they're flying by the seat of their pants. Easy way to lose viewers.
 

TnAdct1

Ravioli, Ravioli
Aug 3, 2002
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#80
...and this is the reason why I'm staying away from The Flash until the whole "Barry in jail" arc is finished.

To me, I have a feeling that one of the plans for the writers this season was to have a number of episodes that don't depict Barry suiting up as The Flash. However, at the same time, they are not willing to have Grant Gustin sit out a few episodes at the start of the season, and thus we end up getting stuck with the garbage that we've been seeing not only in this episode, but in the "#Feminism" episode and the "Thinker origin story" episode as well.

Seriously, is it asking too much to hold off Barry returning from the Speed Force until the sweeps period and have the first few episodes be about Wally filling in for Barry, with the series slowly building up The Thinker being a legitimate threat to the point where it becomes obvious that Team Flash will need Barry to stop him (with him making his grand return around the time of the big crossover event of the season)?