The Fairly Oddparents, Season 10 News and Discussion Thread Part 2

Discussion in 'The Nicktoons Forum' started by Neo Yi, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

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    You've gotta be careful of following any "celebrity" on twitter. I highly recommend avoiding the ones who talk/retweets about politics.

    I think Hartman work has been degrading before even season 9. Look how quickly TUFF Puppy went into using the same characters over and over again.
     
  2. Ghostbuster

    Ghostbuster Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for the double post..

    Butch has created animated short featuring an anime version of FOP:



    From a previous post:

    After a conversion about the recent TV cartoon shows turning into movies (Teen Titans Go, Bob’s Burgers) - Butch divulges info about the cancelled Fairly OddParents feature film by Paramount and Nickelodeon!



    Update: Butch talks about a lost episode of Fairly OddParents:

     
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    #262 Ghostbuster, Oct 17, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  3. Ghostbuster

    Ghostbuster Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for the double post..

    Butch discusses why he added Chloe to the cast:

     
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  4. Dudley

    Dudley Moderator
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    I believe him in how the network insisted on adding new characters, (and perhaps Chloe herself was a parody of Mary Sue characters), doesn't explain why his show's humor has changed for the worse.
    Maybe his sense was of humor, it's hard to find any long-running show stay consistent in quality or even tone.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Toonberculosis

    Toonberculosis Gets Two Scoops

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    An honest title would be "Butch talks about Star Wars for 15 minutes while briefly dismissing complaints about Chloe", but that ain't how you get clicks.

    I never minded Poof the character himself, but I do agree with those that say a fundamental change happened to the overall enjoyment of the show around the time he was introduced, and it only got worse around the introduction of Sparky or Chloe (Though they were undeniably bad additions). It's really hard to pinpoint what, more long-term fans of the show might be able to articulate it better, but I personally feel as if things got too predictable. It was around this time that Hartman took the "running joke x3" thing in an episode and really ran with it.

    Most of the comments though, aren't just lambasting Chloe or Sparky, but they are asking things like, "Where is Chester/AJ/Vicky/Francis/Tootie/Trixie?" mainly Timmy's human peers. They added Chloe when you had a whole cast of characters already filling her role as Timmy's friendenemy, romantic interest, or deserving of fairies. Sparky was just another dumb Cosmo-lite and was the worst character in the long storied history of all of Nicktoons and anyone who could see two feet in front of them could tell you that character was going to fail.

    Hartman's excuse for these abominations is that "we were going on for so long we HAD to do something else" but then he continued to spam Crocker, Cosmo, or Timmy's dad in all these episodes even after these characters were added. Sorry for the long post, I've long since gave up on this cartoon, but watching this and hearing Hartman mock critics and try to blame execs for his failures just irks me. I normally like his YT channel videos but this is a load of CartoonBrew-tier clickbait crap.
     
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  6. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

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    She's not really a mary-sue though since she obviously can't help others without causing more trouble. She does have a few mary-sue moments, but she has far more crazy moments where even Crocker looks at her at being nuts. But Chloe is just a goody-goody who has has goody-goody intentions backfire on her like Timmy with his wishes.
    But yeah, to me, Chloe was the only well written character of last season with Timmy being a jerk, Cosmo and Timmy's Dad being overly-stupid, Vicky being a rage-aholic monster, Cosmo and Wanda's marriage being turned dysfunctional, and finally well-known characters disappearing. But all this has been happening since Poof's arrival, possibly even before that. Hartman makes claim about Cosmo,Crocker, and Timmy's Dad being everybody's favorites. But I think they're just his favorites and he can't help but force them into the show. And since Hartman hires yes-men as part of his creative team, no fresh ideas are allowed in.

    Personally Chloe wasn't the problem with the show, it's Hartman and his overuse of dumb characters and bad writing that is the real problem.
    But yeah, it seems like Hartman was trying advert away from the fans' complaints by talking about the highly criticized Star Wars prequels as a distraction.
     
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  7. Ghostbuster

    Ghostbuster Well-Known Member

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    Should of posted Butch's description:

    "Butch Hartman (Fairly OddParents creator) talks about the evolution of Fairly OddParents over 16 years of airing on Nickelodeon during a Star Wars conversation with Jace Diehl."
     
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  8. Chaos160

    Chaos160 Occasional Member

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    Chloe isn't a bad character. Yes, they didn't show her flaws all that much, but does provide new and unique wishes that Timmy would never wish for.

    The only thing that really bothered me about modern FOP is the amount of torture for Timmy. That really wasn't necessary. I would have preferred if Cosmo and Wanda weren't always comparing Timmy to Chloe and making everyone really dumb.

    I guess Hartman really doesn't want to be involved with the fan's criticisms and tries to avoid the complaints at all costs nowadays.
     
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    #268 Chaos160, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2017
  9. Toonberculosis

    Toonberculosis Gets Two Scoops

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    I want to be fair here, my opinions on Chloe the character are mostly neutral. The people you see in the comments however, are calling for her blood. I know she has fans, but the haters seem to greatly outweigh the fans. I feel that the haters have a very good point: Chloe just takes screentime away from the other main characters, she is a perfect girl ("Mary Sue") whose reasoning to getting fairies was so halfhearted and poorly explained it may as well have not happened. She lives in a nicer house than Timmy, has parents that although smothering don't leave her with an evil babysitter and let her operate independently.

    Yes, she creates wishes that Timmy might not make, but they all fall into the same category of "Good intentions leading to bad results". Any character could do this. Tootie could and did. Chester could and did. Those are established characters with very large followings (the top rated comments in that mention them). The point cycles back to how Hartman said "We had to do something!!!" and then planted a new flower in the garden rather than cultivating the ones he's neglected for the past decade.
     
  10. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

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    I get the feeling that most of the haters never gave her a real chance and only watched a couple of episodes and gave up on the rest of the season. Chloe is definitely not a mary-sue, the fact that even Crocker thought she was cuckoo in an episode proves that (she's shown to be crazy in other episodes as well). The girl can't sing or "act" either.
    The season premiere tried to show that her life looks perfect with a reveal that it wasn't. It just wasn't written well enough to do it right.
    I've seen the entire season, and Chloe does not take up more screen-time from the other main characters. There's quite a few episodes where she's only the side story, with Timmy in the lead. Timmy's Dad is the one who takes up far more screen-time than he should.
    Remy lives in a nicer home than Timmy too and only reason he has fairies is because of lack of attention from his parents, and despite smothering her, Chloe's parents are also a source of stress for her since she tries to live up to their approval. We haven't seen much of Vicky since she's used less with each season. It seems like Timmy is barely babysat by her anymore.

    The point is that she'll make wishes that Timmy wouldn't really make to get more stories. Making wishes with "good intentions leading to bad results" was always a main part of the show. Hartman has already stated that Chester was happy with his life and wouldn't need fairies, as for Tootie, she seems to have trouble keeping things a secret, plus the new godchild would need to be someone Timmy would be willing to hang around with, and Tootie has always scared him away from her.
    Hartman seems to be just making an excuse as to why the show has been failing for the past several seasons, which could've been prevented by focusing less on Cosmo,Crocker, and Timmy's Dad, and instead bring back characters that have disappeared. Heck, Chloe would've been a perfect reason to bring back characters just to see her interaction with them. But Hartman would rather focus on his favorites instead. The fact that Hartman spends most of that video shifting to Star Wars than about the issues, proves that he's avoiding responsibility of the show's failings.
     
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  11. Toonberculosis

    Toonberculosis Gets Two Scoops

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    I mean sheesh, the new theme song was so bad I would not blame them for giving up before the episode even started.

    Like many characters, the way she is written is extremely inconsistent, and sometimes characters (like Crocker, who obviously has no business calling someone else cuckoo) make those sort of insults for ironic "Comedic" effect. The Mary Sue thing is really just stemming from how she was presented and how she was able to best characters like Foop or Vicky, usually with a tired overdone lightsaber battle.

    That's definitely another huge problem. Vicky was a threat. They made her a little off the wall (trying to take over the world, etc) but she was still highly entertaining and, unlike Crocker, not overused. Grey Griffin put life into the character like she does with so many others, though it felt like in the lone appearance of her in the babysitter battle episode even Grey was phoning it in.

    I don't know about Chester, I will admit, because having two boys with fairies would also cut AJ out of the equation. Chester getting a fairy is mainly a "if [x] can than why can't [y]?" thing. I don't think it would actually improve the show, it's more to just show that there are plenty of characters needing fairies more than Chloe.

    Tootie on the other hand, is a proven and effective foil to Timmy. She's in love with him, but at times has gotten angry at him. She's done girly things (dolls, tea parties, etc), but has also done tomboyish things (being a ninja, standing up to a male bully). The yeah-butting that she can't keep a secret is sort of based off the episode where she was loaned fairies and didn't know the rules of them, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to prevent her from such a role and it was never directly established ether. I don't even care about the romance or advancing "shipping", but seeing Timmy as a mentor to a younger and more naive bullied character would work. They tried it with Chloe and produced a few decent episodes, but it's a huge difference in resonance when it's actually a character who has suffered the same problems Timmy has against a character who has a much better life. I strongly agree with those in the comments saying Tootie should've gotten the role instead.

    Another failure on his part. Yet Chloe's interactions with characters like Vicky or Foop show us normally competent villains being reduce to jobbers so they can push how "awesome" Chloe is. If anything I'm glad favorites of mine like Trixie, Tootie, or Veronica were spared the humiliation of having to kowtow to her.
     
  12. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the new theme was bad. I don't remember where I heard this, but I heard it was a "last minute idea" and it was obviously rushed.

    Chloe's craziness has been consistently part of her character though, and in Crocker's defense, he would know crazy. The episode Chloe fought Vicky in was itself bad for the whole cast, including Poof who was reduced to only doing cheap voice imitations. As for Foop, it's not like he hasn't been bested by Timmy and Poof either. Especially Poof.

    Yeah I hate how Vicky went from being a main character to recurring character by season 7. But there's also the fact she went from mean-teenager to soulless monster by then as well.

    But Chester was never really shown to be miserable in the show aside from that Fairy Idol special. But was from a wish he made from Norm which lead to him not seeing his father as much as he needed. Chester has a father who cares about him, he's happy being poor, and has friends like Timmy,Aj,Elmer, and Sanjay. Chloe was revealed at the end of her premiere that she has no friends because she ends up annoying people and make things worse like a city being destroyed.

    But Tootie still scares Timmy away from her. She is far more concerned with having a romantic relationship than anything else. There's also the fact that Hartman has tried to be neutral with the Timmy/Tootie and Timmy/Trixie ships. So having Timmy share C&W with her would give give the impression of Hartman choosing a side. If Tootie were to get fairies, she should get her own. Personally I think Hartman should've went with Vicky not treating Tootie like she does the kids she babysits since it would give reason for why she doesn't have fairies and give the sisters some character development.

    The episode with Vicky as I pointed out above was badly written all around. You'd think Chloe would try to befriend Vicky like she did with that radioactive monster and Foop and doubt Timmy's fears about her. Vicky should be hiding her wicked-side from adults, And of course Timmy's Dad was shoehorned into the episode. So even without Chloe, the episode would still be horrendous.
    And again Foop has been bested by Timmy and Poof before. Plus Chloe's interactions with Foop was simply bad writing itself since Foop is suppose to be Poof's opposite, so he's suppose to be evil. The only good story that can be made from that would be the consequences of turning Poof evil. But I doubt Hartman would go for buildup-plots in FOP.
     
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  13. Toonberculosis

    Toonberculosis Gets Two Scoops

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    Well I'll try to sum things up as I see them because both our posts are getting really long, so I'll try to address the main points:

    * Whether or not Vicky was flanderized, she is a crucial part of the show. As Abra Catastrophe and Channel Chasers showed, she's the reason Timmy even has fairies. When she disappears for mostly three straight seasons, you have Timmy running around basically just being almost like a terrorist with his magic powers. There are ways they could have developed Vicky, and possibly built up other reasons for Timmy needing his fairies, but they didn't do either. They took one of the best characters on this show and basically locked her in the basement so that Crocker or Timmy's Dad could scream at us for 11 minutes.

    * Chester is again sort of a fan proposition and I don't even necessarily think he would improve the show, it's his role to be a side character. Yet we've seen Chester and AJ suffer bullying at the hands of Vicky and other characters, having their parents be neglectful, and deal with other problems in their lives too. The ingredients are all there.

    * Even more so with Tootie. We've seen her downright get tortured, humiliated, shunned by her parents, in ways that seem worse than what Timmy endures. Saying "she shouldn't get fairies" because she's too naive and honest based off speculation feels like a bad excuse. Even so, they could have done other things to show her situation improve, but instead they sort of moved away from her entirely. I think we've all seen the touchiness of Tootie's character in this thread or in that video's comments, but it's hard to pass up that like her sister, she was squandered.

    * They gave up on characters like Poof anyway, yet kept Foop, which makes zero sense and almost feels like they simply ran out of space for all the moving parts in the episode. This is part of the cheapened feel that resonates with season 10, they can't even bother to explain why one of the main character's family members just disappeared until the season was almost over!
     
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  14. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree. It's just bad writing to replace one of the main characters for the sake of replacing her with two screaming idiots.

    Eh, while Vicky babysits the other kids, it's obvious she babysits Timmy far more often than the other kids. Crocker tortures them as well, but AJ gets perfect grades while Chester doesn't care about the "F''s he gets. We haven't seen Francis since season 7. The only thing neglectful that Chester and AJ's parents have done is leave them with Vicky a few times. Otherwise there has been times of Chester and AJ spending time with their parents, so they aren't neglectful to their kids like Timmy's parents are.
    And if Crocker and Francis were the only reasons for any of the students, then most of the school would have fairies then.

    The fact that Tootie can't keep her mouth shut about secrets is a very good reason why she doesn't have fairies, because it means she could've had fairies and lost them. Crocker lost his fairies and was even more miserable after losing them, but I doubt he was ever given more chances of having Fairies.

    Poof never really added much to the show, aside pandering to the fans who wanted Wanda and Cosmo to have a baby.
    I would've rather see more Anti-Cosmo and Anti-Wanda than have Foop shoved in. The fact that they called him Foop instead of Anti-Poof was ridiculous.
     
  15. Toonberculosis

    Toonberculosis Gets Two Scoops

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    There are simple inconsistencies. Timmy has obviously spent time with his parents in certain episodes too, and others they neglect him.

    With Tootie, it's really just an idea that I've said others and myself have supported, but we know full well it's probably not going to ever get implemented at this point. I don't think a vague interpretation of "Birthday Wish" is the reason why she was never given a fairy, but rather the reasons we've used to explain other faults in this show: bad writing.
     
  16. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

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    Well it's been shown that despite being neglectful, Timmy's parents do love him.

    The writing did start going downhill a little in seasons 4 and 5.
    Another possible reason could've been the fairies being too afraid of Vicky to become Tootie's godparent/s, but that wouldn't work either since Jorgen brought as much fear to the fairies at one time as Vicky did.
    But I think the best explanation would be that Tootie at one time, did have fairies, but lost them like Crocker. Doesn't matter how, she just lost them.
     
  17. Toonberculosis

    Toonberculosis Gets Two Scoops

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    Well if that's the case, it's even lamer that Hartman didn't show us or give us an episode that really got into it.

    I don't even think giving a character a fairy is necessary, and that may have been enough to hurt the natural order of the show regardless of what character they picked to do so. The show is mostly episodic, but we've seen things that have not remained entirely self-contained from time to time, mainly the addition of new characters. Having Timmy do things to improve the situations he and his friends endure could be a start.

    I think if you ask most fans, and I brought this up earlier about the Chloe video's comments and notice its been brought up before in this thread, is that most people simply wanted the expanded cast back.
     
  18. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

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    And I'm one of those people who'd like to see the expanded cast back. But I don't blame Chloe as a reason for the lack of those expanded characters. If the 10th season had been without Chloe, the show would still lack those characters and would instead focus on Crocker and Timmy's Dad getting more screentime.
     
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  19. Chaos160

    Chaos160 Occasional Member

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    I do agree that they tried to make Chloe look so "awesome" that they dumbed down almost the entire cast just to make her look like the greatest and smartest kid in the world.

    IMO, the characters that suffered the most flanderization are Timmy, Cosmo, and Wanda since they became much more dumber and useless. Perhaps this was to again make sure that Chloe is the hero of the story.

    However, the new characters aren't even Butch Hartman's fault, it's Nickelodeon's fault for forcing Butch to add more characters to keep the show fresh.

    Considering Chloe did not appear in Fairly Odd Phantom or Beast of Friends, I can't even tell if she will even reappear in later installments. (That is IF they even made anymore installments)
     
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    #279 Chaos160, Oct 29, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  20. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

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    But they weren't dumbed down to make Chloe look "awesome". Chloe is not the reason at all for the characters getting dumber or being flanderized. They were getting dumber before Chloe was even introduced. Heck they were complaints about Cosmo insulting Wanda before even Poof.
    Hartman has a love for dumb,screaming characters. That's why the characters were getting dumbed down and flanderized. If Chloe hadn't been introduced, they would still act the same as the did in season 10.
     
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