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Discussion in 'The DC Comics Animation Forum' started by Space Cadet, Jul 16, 2005.
That's what I was getting at.
Well, as I said, we're not sure about Bruce and Selina's exact ages--perhaps she was 50 at the time of conception. Which is not much more plausible than a 60 year old mother, but it's the future, new drugs, it's hapened before, yadda-yadda. And perhaps Selina was the one who badly wanted to bear Bruce's son and set things up to succeed.
And yes, having Bruce bonk Selina's daughter is both creepy and icky, so no wonder I like the idea. But perhaps he didn't know who she was at the time. Or some other excuse. I like the Oedipal grandeur of great figures screwing up so badly. Anyway, all I've said is obviously only total speculation, and it's unlikely that we'll ever know what really happened in the script unless some intrepid boardmember engages in selective burglary. Anyway, I'd stil have rather had Terry be Bruce and Selina's spawn rather than the tortuous events that actually ocurred in Epilogue. I buy elderly parents far more readily than bonkers nanotech-surrogate parents-phantasm plots.
Well in that case,
What if Mary McGinnis was Selina's kid? Then it'd pretty much follow the plot of Epilogue, just without the nanotech stuff. Though there were never any hints during the series that she knew Bruce personally before Rebirth, just that she knew *of* Bruce Wayne and seemed to really admire that Terry was working for him.
And Terry did drop that one line in Rebirth that implied Selina eventually became part of Batman's "family"...I wonder what that meant...
Excellent idea Simple Simon. That would of course make Terry Bruce's grandson, an idea I like far more than cutting poor Warren McGinnis out of the picture. Perhaps you've even come closer to what the DTV might have revealed than we have. And it's more plausible than Epilogue.
I think that the plot of the unreleased BB DTV that features Catwoman was probably one of three scenarios.
1. Selena semi-cloned Batman similar to the way Waller did except she added some of her DNA to Mary. And she probably did it for the same reason that Waller did too.
2. Scenario 2 is the same as scenario 1 except the cloned kid isn't Terry and she's a girl that's been raised by Selena.
3. Bruce semi-cloned or fully cloned Selena for "personal" or other reasons but put the project on ice when he relized the ethical implications involved or someething else. But somehow the clone is activated and causes mass havoc in future Gotham.
I'd like to take a moment to say hat the conversations that are occuring in these spoiler tags are going to give me nightmares for weeks. Thanks a lot.
And, if the basic premise of Epilogue was taken from the BB Catwoman DTV that was never released, it stands to reason that Terry would learn that he's either Bruce's son, grandson, or otherwise biologically related to him in some fashion or another, and that Bruce didn't have anything to do with it. Perhaps Selina, spurned by Bruce one too many times, decided that she was going to have a child with Bruce one way or another, and Selina pulls a Waller and creates Terry for a specific purpose; having a child with Bruce, whether he wanted it or not. Ergo, Terry is just the product of a long affair gone awry; some last desperate attempt to try and keep a disintegrating--or already destroyed--relationship alive. (If I'm not mistaken, there have been plenty of cases in real life where couples have children in order to "save their marriage", only to screw it over worse.) That sounds pretty damn twisted to me, and the fact that Bruce might have uninentionally driven a woman that he at least cared deeply for, if not loved, to that kind of obsessive derangement would add one hell of an extra sucker-punch to the whole deal. That, to me, would be the definition of "pitch black".
No boinking of anything. Gaaaah. You people are sick. >washes brain out with soap<
Man, this has just become a pure spoiler talk back
let the darkness fall
Plot of epilogue?????
What EXACTLY is the plot of the "epilogue" episode?????, I don't mind SPOILERS by the way.
just highlight the dark portions on the thread, I'm sure that should answer most of your questions
Read the YTV Epilogue thread; you'll get all your answers there.
But in case you don't feel like doing that:
There was a revelation that Terry is Bruce's biological son, and he was essentially bred to be a new Batman by Amanda Waller. Bruce had nothing to do with it.
So, yeah. And, unless you lack in a frightfully vivid imagination like mine, don't read half the spoilers in here. Gaaaaah. >continues scrubbing brain out with Ajax<
better clear this up before it becomes apocryphal "fact":
the catwoman bbeyond dtv thing was NEVER scripted, it never went beyond a 45-minute impromptu plotting session between glen murakami and myself....nothing was ever even written down on it....
in its original (if nebulous) form, it was too similar to both "mask of the phantasm" and "return of the joker" in several key plot-structure points....but even before we had a chance to iron any of that out, the home video dept's unbridled apathy towards any more bbeyond dtv projects made the whole thing moot....
as we were plotting out the tail end of the current JLU season, i brought the basic idea up to my co-producers, we quickly realized how it could make a really nifty off-the-wall "bonus" episode (as merlin missy correctly surmised, we did have BUFFY's "restless" episode in mind, season-finale-wise....also, the "flashback" structure was very much inspired by tim minnear's excellent FIREFLY episode "out of gas", as well as the "three cathedrals" episode of WEST WING)....it actually works WAY better as the coda to this season than as a stand-alone bbeyond film, in fact we were able to solve a lot of of its inherent problems by grafting it onto the cadmus plot....
to avoid spoilers, i'll come back here after "epilogue" airs this weekend and talk more about what we planned to do with it in its original form (plot details, etc).....
Sounds wonderful. And my apologies for relying on evidently faulty memories and saying the film had been scripted.
I want it! I want it Now!
Sorry, Batman Beyond is my favorite thing you ever did. That, or BTAS. Still can't decide. And I've really come to appreciate STAS over the last year. JL was good. And I'm really looking forward to what you're doing with JLU next year...
Wow, that ended up more brown-nosey than I thought it would.
Hey B.t. Can I Ask You Something?????
b.t. can I ask you something?????,
First of all, if at any time in this post I sound at all like I'm ripping on your work or something then I apologise because B:TAS is easily one of the best portrayals of the Batman character in any medium ever!!!!!, every character was always handled so well.....
Why was Catwoman/Selina so messed up, I mean Batman discovered her identity at the end of her first story, and her presence in just about every episode after "The Cat and The Claw" just seemed so muted, she almost always ended up as a damsel in distress which seems very unfaithful to the character, however I must say she was rightfully redeemed in the excellent "Catwalk" episode, one of my favourite B:TAS episodes,
So what's the explanation for Catwoman's illhandling?????,
Again I'm sorry if I sound like I'm ripping on you or something, and I'm really looking forward to what else you can tell us about the plot etc of this unproduced BBeyond DTV we've all been discussing.
Can't wait! Thanks!
Not to sound pushy but please please please do everything in your power to get Batman Beyond season sets released. I really hope that the home video department doesn't get in your way on that one. Keep up the great work.
EDIT: Just to let you know, I'm not demanding this or anything. I'd classify this more as groveling at your feet.
Very interesting. So I guess that in the DTV there would of been "Batmans Darkest secert" from "Epilogue" but change extremely by how Cadmus wasn't made back when the DTV was talked about. I'm wondering how it could work without them... maybe Bruce did it himself. Heh I never cared about this DTV, only one I want to get made is the JL-JLU one but that looks like it never get made...
i was never crazy about how we handled catwoman either....i liked the sexy straight-up jewel thief, didn't much care for the animal-rights activist stuff (seemed cliche' somehow)...but adrienne was an excellent v.a. for her, i thought....i HATED having to make selina a blonde at wb's "request", to make her more like michelle pfeiffer (and it turned out michelle wasn't EVEN blonde in the damn movie!)...i don't know why that should be such a big deal, but i could just never wrap my head around selina being a blonde, it just didn't work for me.....other than that, i don't really know what to tell you.....
and julie newmar is still my favorite catwoman, what do i know?
I thought the interest in animal rights added another dimension to her character rather nicely. A jewel heisting bit of eye candy for Batman would have been a rather abrupt place to draw the line for her, one would think.
I always liked the BTAS design. Then I saw your treatments on Newmar Catwoman (Ahem ahem,) which are just so dang hot I wish you would have used those designs in the first place! (I know, Fox Kids wouldn't let you.) But, WOW...