MGM Cartoons version differences discussion

Discussion in 'Back To The Inkwell - Classic Cartoons Discussion' started by Cool_Cat, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    but if the cartoons original negatives were destroyed weren't the original titles already scrapped from the releases?
     
  2. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Banned

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    Yes, because of the fire the original titles are lost.
     
  3. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    No, i meant did they edit the altered titles into the original negatives like WB cartoon?

    If the original negatives are lost all prints forever will be unrestored? Didn't MGM create backup negatives on safety stock so those can be fully remastered and restored too? I do like some of the MGM cartoon transfers on DVD, but some of them have DVNR which already makes the restoration bad.
     
  4. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Banned

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    MGM did create backup negatives on safety stock so those can be fully remastered and restored too. But safety negatives are much more difficult to be restored due to them containing more scratches, dust and dirt than the original negatives.

    Considering this problem the restoration team WB had with MGM cartoons at the time around 2004, hence could explain why many MGM cartoons were not given any restored versions until at least 2008 (when the Academy Awards Animation Collection DVD set came out) and with the exception for all the 1954-1958 CinemaScope Tom and Jerry shorts, Life With Tom, Puss Gets The Boot, The Midnight Snack, Fraidy Cat, Dog Trouble and Puss n Toots which have been restored, none of the Tom and Jerry shorts on all three Spotlight Collection DVD volumes have been restored, instead they use directly from the Turner prints (this also applies to The Milky Waif, The Little Orphan and A Mouse In The House, presented uncut on the sets, with the former two's uncut versions being only on the replacement copy of Spotlight Collection Vol. 1). The Truce Hurts uses the censored Turner print on the original copy of Spotlight Collection Vol. 1, but uses the unrestored LaserDisc print as its uncensored substitute on the replacement copy of the same DVD.

    Its only the cartoons from before 1951 which were destroyed by the fire. Others produced from 1951 onward still survive the original negatives.
     
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    #104 A-Cecil, May 26, 2017
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  5. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Banned

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    Although no video of this kind is found, I found a rare screenshot of the 1941 MGM cartoon "The Alley Cat" which has a very thick blue border around the opening titles and the colors appear to be quite faded in comparison to the Turner print. Must be the Laserdisc print.
    alleycattitle.png

    More screenshots of this transfer of "The Alley Cat" can be found here:
    http://orphan-toons.blogspot.co.nz/2008/07/rachels-turn-on-fence-another-look-at.html

    Note that the Turner print of "The Alley Cat", unlike this transfer above, has no borders in the opening titles:
     
    #105 A-Cecil, May 26, 2017
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  6. Daffyrocks

    Daffyrocks Woo-hoo-hooo!

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    ^Or it could also very likely come from an unknow VHS release.

    Anyways, from this week I have started to upload on my Dailymotion and Vimeo channels the remastered prints of post-1948 Tom and Jerry shorts made for Golden Collection 2, which were taken from Amazon Prime Germany (thanks again to @NewBogus :) for sending them to me). Because these prints are rare and hard to find, they need to have their own place to be seen publicly by everyone.

    Anyways, here are the first shorts uploaded as of now:




    I will upload more in the coming days (the reissued cartoons will be uploaded with original titles recreation made by me).

    And I am uploading them on both sites just in case Dailymotion decides to take down some particular shorts, you know :sad: (this was already the case with "The Little Orphan", so yeah..)
     
  7. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Banned

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    This 2006-2008 Tom and Jerry bumper from Cartoon Network Korea notably used a lot of clips of unrestored transfers of Tom and Jerry cartoons.
    Full list of clips used:
    1. Turner 1995 prints [PAL copies]: The Milky Waif, The Framed Cat, Mouse Trouble, Yankee Doodle Mouse, Kitty Foiled, Trap Happy, The Bowling Alley Cat.
    2. MGM VHS/Laserdisc prints: Jerry's Cousin (horrible looking copy from early-1980s Tom & Jerry 1 VHS tape), Dr Jekyll and Mr Mouse (horribly faded copy with a very bad blue tint and poor color levels), Tee For Two, Safety Second, Springtime For Thomas, Quiet Please!, and The Zoot Cat.



    This one also played on Cartoon Network Southeast Asia at the same time, but with the song and the text in English and no lyrics on screen.

    Boomerang France airs the Tom and Jerry short "Trap Happy" as the old one instead of the Turner print. One thing I noticed is how different the colors of the same transfer differed on both the Laserdisc release and on Boomerang France, especially the title card. I'm not sure whether what Boomerang France aired is the same transfer as the Laserdisc release or its an older one. Even if that Boomerang France copy is a transfer older than the Laserdisc version, that copy looks pretty good for an older, pre-Laserdisc print, considering most of the older pre-Laserdisc versions of MGM cartoons from before the late-1980s tend to look really bad (e.g. dark, faded colors for Technicolor prints, extremely washed-out colors for 1960s Metrocolor prints).
    [Left: LDrip/Right: Boomerang France TVrip]
    trap happy ld vs bm fr.png
     
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    #107 A-Cecil, Jun 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  8. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Well-Known Member

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    The transfer on the LD set is a newer one, similar to the ones of The Little Orphan and such. They sourced the audio from those on the 90s prints.

    The one Boomerang France aired is the Cartoon Festival VHS one.
     
  9. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Banned

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    Cartoon Festivals....sounds familiar, as in 1986 MGM/UA Home Video also released a small selection of pre-1948 Looney Tunes shorts on VHS tapes (albeit with all of them having their original openings axed or messed up) with this brand name. And I just found out that Trap Happy was released on Tom & Jerry Cartoon Festival Volume 3 VHS tape.
     
  10. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    Yes they also did MGM Cartoon Festivals for their own cartoons.

    Edit: Popeye never had VHS due to copyrights with King Features Syndicates.
     
    #110 Kevin Mo, Jun 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  11. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Banned

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    Well not Popeye though. Popeye theatrical cartoons were NEVER ever released on any official home video release prior to 2007 due to legal rights issues; King Features Syndicate, the original owner of the Popeye comics franchise, only has the legal rights to release the Popeye cartoons on home video, but doesn't have any rights to the Popeye theatrical cartoons themselves. Because of this, no official Popeye VHS/Laserdisc release ever materialized during the 1980s-1990s.

    In the late-1990s, many animation fans petitioned the Popeye theatrical cartoons to be released on home video, so after the home video rights for the Turner library have been transferred from MGM/UA Home Video to Warner Home Video in 1999, in 2002 King Features Syndicate makes a deal with Turner and WB to release these cartoons on home media. At the same time WB was making a deal to release the Paramount-distributed John Wayne live-action western films released by WB on DVD. It took 4 years to make the deal but it was worth it; by 2006 the Popeye cartoons are allowed to be released on home video by Warner Home Video, with their original Paramount references intact. This led to the release of the Popeye DVD sets, which presents all the Popeye theatrical cartoons fully restored and completely uncut and uncensored, with their original titles intact (as opposed to the plastered AAP titles regularly seen on TV for decades).

    To date, all the B&W Popeye shorts (from both the Fleischer & Famous Studios) and the 3 Popeye color specials are the only Popeye cartoons that have alreaday been restored for DVD by Warner Home Video. These aforementioned shorts have been released on 3 separate DVD volumes. The remainder shorts (consisting of the color Popeye cartoons from Famous Studios) are set to be restored and released on DVD, but this is yet to be confirmed.
     
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  12. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    I can't believe restoring all the Popeye shorts, but haven't restored over 500 of Warner Bros.' own cartoons.
     
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  13. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Banned

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    WB's Looney Tunes cartoon library is a lot of cartoons to restore, because its not just 1 series, its essentially the entire animation library of the studio.

    Popeye cartoons for instance is just an individual cartoon series on its own from Paramount, and at Paramount there are also other individual cartoon series also produced at the same time such as Betty Boop, Screen Songs, Little Lulu, Casper The Friendly Ghost, Herman & Katnip, etc. So restoring a cartoon series is faster and quicker than restoring the whole animation library.
     
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  14. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    But I remember the DVD's may never come out especially since low sales.
     
  15. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    The EU print of Push-Button Kitty looks like it was sourced from a 2-hue color print while the USA dubbed version looks very good and looks as if it was sourced from a 3-hue color print.

    But do these restored prints have the English audio or did you have to sync the Turner print audio with the restored prints?
     
    #115 Kevin Mo, Jul 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  16. Daffyrocks

    Daffyrocks Woo-hoo-hooo!

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    I got and synced the EU Turner dubbed audiotrack of the shorts, as @NewBogus :) originally sent the prints with Polish dubbing.

    Anyways, I had to do another Vimeo account because I forgot the password of the old one and I can't access it anymore, so if you want to see more Golden Collection 2 prints go here: https://vimeo.com/user67602729
     
  17. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Well-Known Member

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    I have Slicked Up Pup from RSI La 1 restored with English audio. Who wants it? :p
     
  18. Daffyrocks

    Daffyrocks Woo-hoo-hooo!

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    I already uploaded the restored print :p
     
  19. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    But do these restored prints have the English audio or did you have to sync the Turner print audio with the restored prints?
    If you forgot the password, won't it send to your email and you can unlock it with confirmation?

    Hey guys, the Tom and Jerry Golden Collection Volume 2 was released in Europe but not the US? I wonder when WB will actually release it. It's not hard to include two stereotypical cartoons in there. I think they should release Volume 2, collectors will want it. Besides the DVD's are aimed at collectors, not kids. I should contact Jerry Beck on this one, but I think he said they won't release due to sales not the controversy anymore when I last contacted him.
     
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    #119 Kevin Mo, Jul 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  20. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Banned

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    Correction: The faded, borderless copy of Push-Button Kitty seen on that EU Cartoon Network station is actually the unrestored LaserDisc print, not the EU Turner print. This copy also aired on Boomerang CEE too.

    The EU and USA Turner prints of Push-Button Kitty actually look pretty much the same, except for some minor color differences, as well as the EU print having slightly thicker borders in the opening titles. Both Turner prints have the censored Mammy Two-Shoes audiotrack, however. But the Spotlight Collection copy through has the original Mammy Two-Shoes audiotrack, because the original soundtrack from the Laserdisc is synced over it.

    USA print (albeit with the original Mammy audiotracks):
    http://www.myvideo.az/v/1862313

    EU print (with redubbed Mammy audiotrack, as seen on TV):


    Prior to the release of the Spotlight Collection DVDs, only two Tom and Jerry shorts featuring Mammy Two-Shoes have been censored on VHS and Laserdisc: The Framed Cat and Saturday Evening Puss;

    1. Saturday Evening Puss: VHS & Laserdisc versions use the 1960s redrawn version by Chuck Jones which replaces Mammy Two-Shoes with a white teenage girl, and both The Art Of Tom & Jerry laserdisc & The Very Best Of Tom & Jerry VHS has the edited soundtrack which had June Foray's voice-over and Jerry complaining to Tom about the noise muted out. Although Tom & Jerry II VHS release still uses the same print, but mistakenly uses the original soundtrack which retains Mammy Two-Shoes' original voice.

    2. The Framed Cat: VHS and Laserdisc versions of this short have Mammy's voice redubbed by June Foray even though keeping the original "black Mammy" animation. Not sure whether this was an intended censorship, or its a mistake made by MGM/UA Home Video by mistakenly syncing over the "white Mammy" soundtrack from the (currently lost) 1960s reanimated version by Chuck Jones over the original "black Mammy" animation footage.

    Interestingly, the original copy of Spotlight Collection Volume 2 DVD has the Turner print of Saturday Evening Puss (which restores the original "black Mammy" animation) with the redubbed Mammy Two-Shoes audiotrack by Thea Vidale. The replacement copy of the DVD has the original Mammy Two-Shoes audiotrack by Lilian Randolph synced over the cartoon (which is not been heard for years), hence marking it the first time ever Saturday Evening Puss appears uncut and uncensored on home video.

    On Spotlight Collection Volume 3 DVD, The Framed Cat has the original Mammy Two-Shoes audiotrack by Lilian Randolph restored to the cartoon (which is not been heard for decades), hence marking it the first time ever The Framed Cat appears with the original Mammy Two-Shoes audiotrack on home video.
     

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