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"Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." Season Five Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Marvel Live-Action Movies and Television' started by The Penguin, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    My guess? She is predestined to return to the past and the timestream factored that in. The real trick is beating the predestined future once SHIELD gets back. First part of the season is getting home. Second part is preventing the horrible future in the first place. And since she was always supposed to go home, that will be the real challenge.

    UPDATE:

    Earlier in the season, Deacon speculated that going by the Multiverse Theory, Quake may have destroyed an alternate timeline in the past, and that's the future they are in. I don't like that explanation though, because it makes it seem as if this entire thing is unimportant to the show's canon and characters, and is just a one-off mess instead of a real problem. I think my guess is definitely more plausible than Deacon's, simply because my guess would make the show more interesting, and his wouldn't.

    Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "A Life Earned"

    Okay, I'm not going to say this episode made up for the neverending suck of the previous three episodes. What I will say is that THIS episode didn't suck. At all.

    It made several interesting story choices and I'm on-board most of them. And that usually isn't true for ANY TV show I watch. I am just as big a fanboy as anyone, but I tend to think hour long dramatic series are uniformly awful, no matter the genre, because they have to make poor story choices to supposedly keep things interesting. That the drawback of the 22 episode season. And that is totally Mutant Enemy and this show in a nutshell. Except, it didn't happen this episode, which is good, because this the worst season by far. This episode wasn't good enough to change my opinion about THAT, but I was close to giving up the show after last week, and this episode made me backtrack that decision pretty easily.

    Let's start with the interesting stuff.

    The first interesting thing is cool, but honestly, I would not have needed to it accept it. Apparently the psychic guy was feeding Daisy's answers to Gemma. The ironic thing is that even if he hadn't done that, and Gemma had told the exact same story off the top of her head, I would totally accepted it. Yeah, it's random and coincidental. But it's close to the truth, so it's easy to remember, and is the most plausible reason both Gemma and Daisy would have been in the diner. If that was Gemma's wild guess, I would accepted that completely, and thought the show was ballsy for doing that. I like the scientific explanation too, but I totally would have let this slide on the coincidence. They didn't actually need the scientific explanation for that. Because coincidence is EXACTLY like science in that it exists whether you believe in it or not.

    Second interesting thing: Deacon busted and then instantly wanting to change sides for a legit reason. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! If all dramatic series did stuff like this every single time there was a betrayal I would never complain. Usually this is the type of plot turn the show would drag on for weeks on end, making you hate Deacon more than you probably should, and actually (rightly as a matter of fact) thinking Coulson and May stupid for not seeing it all along. I want all my betrayals on TV shows handled like this from now on.

    Third: Do I ever need that SAY Fitz? The best thing the episode did is bring back the best cast member on the show. The show has suffered for Iain De Castecker being gone for three episodes. I am not as worried about the ending as perhaps the episode thinks I should be, because the "Next Week" preview hints there might be something else going on besides "Fitz has turned evil". And it's the fact that it can be played either way which is why I approve of the "twist".

    Fourth interesting thing: The battle between May and the Ball Lady. I groaned at the act break, because I thought the show wrote itself into a corner, and an unnecessary one at that. When the show comes back from commercials, I thought one of two things would happen. Either May would kill the Ball Lady, and the show would get rid of the only other interesting villain besides Cassius, or May defeats her, but Ball Lady survives and is all that much less impressive for getting punked by May at this early stage of the game. I was wrong. That was no corner. Here they chose option three: May may have lost and may be dead since the only one of the two of them we see in a later scene is the Ball Lady. And I like the fact that they ended an episode on a worthy cliffhanger to what I thought was going to be one of the biggest let-down act breaks of all time.

    Fifth thing: I think the babies as currency thing is a bit much, as is torturing Mack over not realizing what the "package" actually was before threatening to destroy it. But I like the show having Mack question his actual parenting skills for caring more about Hope the fake simulation, than he did about Hope the actual baby. I like that, because despite Yoyo's protests that his love is the real thing, and what actually matters, I kind of agree with his first instinct that it makes him a bad person and bad father. And I like that the show let me think that. Yoyo is soothing for the audience members who don't want to think too hard on that, and wind up hating Mack. But for those of us who watch Superhero shows for the character drama instead of the action scenes? That premise is money in the bank drama, and I will give him no benefit of the doubt for thinking like that. And I like that I was able to do that this week.

    Anyone else think Mack got unpleasant racial flashbacks to being thought of as big and scary? To be fair, in this scenario, he is. He is super cut and fit, and the other people who work in the mines are all skinny and helpless. By Kree design. Strong people tend to fight back. Like Mack does. Mack is so disturbed not just because he is fitting into ugly racial stereotypes, but that perhaps that in this instance, they may be true. Which is another thing I love that the show doesn't explicitly say, but rather shows through Henry Simmons' disgusted and creeped out performance.

    So, great episode? I wouldn't go that far. But it was interesting, for the first time ever this season. ****.
     
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    #21 Fone Bone, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  2. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    5x4 (92) A LIFE EARNED

    I did appreciate they're starting to address the fall out of the Framework. In this case, with Mack losing Hope again. I was actually starting to wonder if the memories of his life in the Framework, as a normal civilian and dad, were messing with his real memories -- and thus accounting for Mack protesting to all this violence and killing all of a sudden.

    I liked the addition of Ben, the Inhuman telepath. Instead of making him a generic comic book telepath, it was a cool idea to make him an accomplished hand to hand fighter because he reads his opponent's thoughts. And it doesn't hurt that Tye is on the receiving end. I was relieved they didn't milk Ben's arc and string it along several episodes -- and he changes his mind after getting the chance to read Kasius' mind later in the episode.

    That's puts a new light on things with Kasius planning to get out of Dodge, and well blow up Dodge, once he made enough profit off of Inhumans.

    I wanted to believe Deke's story about his parents and his father being the voice in the transmission but I like the choice that Coulson made and had his door welded shut.

    Oh that end teaser, I thought they'd hint at May's status but should have known better. They love torturing the audience about May whenever they get the chance. But hot damn, Fitz is in the mix now! And already seems to have some scheme in play to get Kasius to go right to the main event. But next week, thankfully, revisits Fitz' story on Earth and how he came to the Lighthouse. It should be nice to have a pause from the terrible future and get some answers about Enoch.
     
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  3. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones fan-man
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    I wonder how much time Fitz has been in the future. I'd guess he came a while before they did, in order to get the rescue right, but who knows. He looks like a experienced spaceman and he probably has some swing if he can just walk into this party like that. It's just really good to see him make his entrance.

    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
     
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  4. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    Pre-Christmas S.H.I.E.L.D. is on ABC right now.

    [​IMG]
    "Rewind"
    Friday, December 22, 2017 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on ABC
    With help from Lance Hunter, nothing will stop Fitz from finding the lost team.
     
  5. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    EPISODE 5 (95) REWIND

    Probably a good point as any during the season to take a pause from the dreary space apocalypse and also to answer some questions. While still an AOS episode, it was also appreciated the tone was a bit more AOS and even a bit more light hearted than normal. It definitely was an effective bridge between season 4 and 5. Makes since Fitz wanted to try and take responsibility for his actions in the Framework first at Rae's to Enoch's team then to General Hale.

    I'm glad they didn't glaze over the Framework and Fitz' trauma nor have everyone in the Air Force believe Fitz. General Hale definitely embodies what they're up against without the presence of Talbot. But geez that was brutal at end when she knocked off Lt. Evans and Lucas for their mission failure. Definitely going to be a problem for the team when they come back and doesn't look like they're getting exonerated anytime soon.

    It was great having Lance back for an episode. It's been ages but the actor Nick Blood steps back into the role like no time had passed. I thought the funniest thing would be Rusty crashing the helicopter. Nope. Release the ferrets. Nope. An Empire Strikes Back nod at the end. lmao. The absence of Bobbi was handled well enough. Basically enough info from Lance to assume they got into another of their infamous fights, parted ways for a bit, and sure to reunite soon enough.

    Sucks to find out from one of articles Fitz reads on his phone that S.H.I.E.L.D. was defunded and dissolved after all the work they put in being re-legitimized. Basically back to being wanted fugitives like when HYDRA first resurfaced around season 1. Reminds me they still have to deal with the Russian, his LMDs, and the Watchdogs when they return to Earth. Oi.

    It was a welcome boon that we learned a ton about Enoch and even giving the exact year the others were sent 2091. Pretty close to my 2099 hopes, lol. Chronicoms didn't ring a bell unless they're a obscure alien race in Marvel Comics lore. The 30,000 year mission to observe was an eyebrow raiser though. And poor Robin ended up with a form of precognition like her father Charles in season 3. The Lighthouse was a sprawling bunker under the lighthouse in Virgil's postcard the whole time! Uh, should have seen that coming. Still, it was little frustrating Enoch didn't know anything about the bunker's origins. I still got a feeling what's left of S.H.I.E.L.D. will occupy it and use it as their new main base after they return to the present. I still think it fits as one of Fury's black site bases upgraded from a SSR bunker. It was also beautiful to have Fitz 'reunited' with Zephyr One and I.C.E.R.s.

    Okay, so now we know there's a hidden weapons cache in the Lighthouse somewhere that's hopefully still undiscovered. Fitz and Enoch are pretending to be outlaws to infiltrate Kasius' party. They got nothing to do with the group of people Virgil was with unless they're the ones that turned on the White Monolith - what Enoch revealed about not being able to control it, just he only knew when it would be on.
     
  6. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "Rewind"

    A gem. What a difference the return of Iain De Caesteker and an episode set in the present makes.

    I am confused why Nick Blood was not credited in the opening main guest star titles. His reappearance this season and this episode were not a secret, and it's not like he popped up at the end in a surprise twist. I'm wondering why they chose to do that.

    Nick Blood makes an equally convincing bespectacled lawyer as he does a hunky antihero. I honestly would not have recognized him if they hadn't played the S.H.I.E.L.D. theme when they did.

    I don't know if it's epic or ridiculous, but I like that the moment of no turning back commences with "Release the ferrets". I also love that Lance and Fitz reenact the Han Solo Carbonite freezing scene to the letter. What's amazing is that I'm betting they didn't have time to plan that gag ahead of time, (no "I always wanted to say that" here) but simply did it because it was the right thing to say, and the perfect final joke for Fitz to go out on. It was great.

    Lance saying distance is his and Bobbi's savior, and Leo replying that it is his and Gemma's curse, tells me that Fitz has the rawer relationship deal. BTW, when Fitz said that, he was basically saying he and Simmons were a thing. Why is Lance surprised later on?

    You know, I am a little frustrated that Fitz is taking responsibility for Mace's death. On some level I get it, but he was Ada's actual victim too. It's admirable he wants to pay for his sins, but some of those payments are for debts not owed.

    I love that the two agents who deal with Fitz on a daily basis cannot help liking him in spite of themselves. I groaned when the evil commander shot them, but I also know now that this will be addressed later on. Aside from that horrible women insisting they control the child, there is a part of me that suspects she is the guiding force behind Quake's devastation. She is far more ruthless, murderous, and cruel than somebody in her position would be than if they weren't actually in on it. We will be getting back to her when our heroes return to the present.

    I love that Fitz's alien abduction guess turned out to be correct. Because that one was pretty much the last straw and everyone threw up their hands at that point.

    I laughed at Lance saying he hired the best helicopter pilot money could buy. And then the helicopter crashes and he concedes, "Well, the best helicopter pilot MY money could buy."

    I was saddened by Fitz's guess that he had a schizophrenic episode and killed his friends without remembering it, but I think that is an example of more unwarranted recriminations from him. The actual scenario did not fit that hypothesis, and when people have schizophrenic attacks, they don't tend to go around randomly killing people. And if he did do that, there would be bodies, right? He's only missing two minutes of time. There would be no time to clean up. When the soldier lady is easily able to poke the holes in that theory, Fitz instantly agrees with her ("Right. That makes sense,"), but if he were a bit less guilty and self-loathing, he'd be able to pick those holes himself.

    Speaking of Daisy, I noticed something very alarming about Robin. When Fitz mentions Daisy to her she gets angry and starts drawing suddenly fiercely. Which is good storytelling. An astute viewer might think that she's upset at Daisy because she already knows she is going to destroy the world. But the problem is that if her gift works anything like her father's, the future cannot actually be changed. I think the answer is that it works differently, but it's fact that you don't know at this point, and know more about the situation than the other characters do, so much so that they can't even address it, which is what makes this a very frustrating (in a good way!) scene.

    Look forward to the next episode. A two week break is hardly what I'd consider a winter finale. ABC is burning off this show, and I don't like it one bit. *****.
     
  7. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    I missed Fitz. It's always nice to see him get a bit rough on his opponents. He and Hunter had a really fun rapport throughout the episode, culminating with the Star Wars reference.
     
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  8. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    I think Lance and Bobbi left before they went official?

    Well, this was back to back with the season 4 finale, not a big time skip like in season 3. The horrors of the Framework are still weighing heavy on him.

    Great theory.

    Interesting theory. I thought it was just because Robin knew who Daisy was because she was helping them out when she was on the run as Quake at the end of season 3.

    They put themselves in a corner with scheduling because I guess they didn't renew it at the usual time then Disney stepped in and got it renewed so the first set of episodes wouldn't be ready at the usual time plus there was Inhumans, too. But no matter what, they had to air a couple this year to make it to the usual May finale week because the Olympics will cause a month long or so hiatus in February.
     
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  9. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    I'm talking about how in the episode Fitz tells Lance he and Gemma are a couple and Lance seems surprised. Except earlier in the episode when Fitz asks where Bobbi is Lance talks about distance being his and Bobbi's savior and then Fitz says the opposite about him and Gemma which should have been the thing that said to Lance that he and Gemma were a thing. Maybe I'm misremembering and that scene came AFTER Lance was surprised Fitzsimmons were a couple but that's what I was referring to.
    Man, I am FULL of those.
    We better hope that's all it was, but I'm betting my guess is the correct one.
    Man, The Inhumans wound up being a disaster for all parties involved, didn't it?
     
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  10. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    Loeb made a poor choice in pitching the family show format with Inhumans. AOS mined Inhumans to death and still are this current season. Audience-fatigue is a real thing. I'm even already getting audience-ADD with Kasius, Sinara, and Sinara's hair-do. ;)
     
  11. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones fan-man
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    I was wondering if the big Kree guy in charge of Terrigenesis is the same guy that voices Thanos in the Marvel cartoons.

    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
     
  12. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    ...until somebody gets hurt! Right now on ABC.

    [​IMG]
    "Fun & Games"
    Friday, January 5, 2018 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on ABC
    With Daisy's life on the line, an unexpected friend attempts to rescue her.
     
  13. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones fan-man
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    I really hate these Kree jerks. It sucked seeing what happened to Ben and Tess because of their involvement with the agents. I was pretty upset remembering that Deke sold Daisy out in the first place as well, though in not sure how much she would have accomplished during her war march. I'm looking forward to seeing some kind of resolution to the current situation. Maybe we'll see them get back to the present and try to prevent the destruction of the planet.

    I liked seeing how Sinara thought she was a invaluable right hand to Kasius but all of that went out of the window as soon as he though he had a chance to go home. It's far fetched but I wonder if powers like Flint's could help rebuild the planet one day

    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
     
    #33 Rick Jones, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  14. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    Wow, I guess one of the perks of using a future time-travel story is that you can kill off whichever new characters you want. The body count is rising.

    It's really cool, as usual, to see Fitz get all hardcore. He's a really good actor (the character, although Iain too); the old Fitz would have been a nervous wreck. Also...marriage in the near future? I swear, if the writers choose now to kill Fitz or Simmons off...

    Wow, May lost two fights in a row? I'm so used to her winning all her battles. :p
     
  15. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones fan-man
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    After all of the garbage that has gotten in between them before, that would be too rough for me. They have been mentioning something bad happening in Episode 100, which sucks.

    Sent from my AT7-B using Tapatalk
     
  16. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    5x6 (94) Fun & Games

    Enoch's turning into a really fun character. The brooch was well played, heh. Nice to almost immediately see Enoch's preparation coming in handy with Fitz knowing the right things to say to curry Kasius' favor. Still a bit freaky there were some parallels between Fitz and Kasius.

    Poor Coulson. He just felt bad for Flint not having anyone and told Tess to talk to him -- and that got her killed on the orders of the Vicar. Sucks Ben got killed off. Like Coulson, not another thing to weigh on Daisy's conscience. Oh boy... and for the third death, finally. Later, Grill. Though I couldn't help but think that could have been avoided. They could have threatened to say Elena was following Grill's orders to take Flint and force Grill to back off and another deal is made like Flint works on the Trawler and uses his ability to bring in big loads of rocks. In any case, Flint should be a fun addition to the arc as there's a certain symmetry to an Inhuman with geokinetic abilities showing up in the backdrop of a shattered Earth.

    Didn't expect the sidenote about the origins of the Vrellnexians. So it seems Senator Ponarian is from Xandar unless he simply had access to the Xandarian Snail. Fitz taking him down a notch was awesome yet it was still amusing to watch Ponarian take swipes at Kasius.

    Also a nice bonus we got to learn about Elena's Terrigenesis after all this time. And Mack was class treasurer. :D And well, Daisy's "baller" comment got a chuckle from me. Of course, Fitz insisting he proposed, too.

    I don't know about Sinara becoming a wild card, but she was definitely pondering something after Kasius agreed to Faulnak's demand she fight Daisy. Though I don't give her a pass because she's a murderer and done terrible things.

    And I guess part of next episode will be who finds May first - the Vrellnexians, the humans Virgil spoke to, or Enoch. Can May catch a break soon? :p

    Yeah, some of us also think that's what the back half of the season will be about. I think it will be proven Daisy was not the root cause, and hopefully -- we'll finally have that showdown with the long MIA Ian Quinn and Franklin Hall. I'm thinking Hall's powers could just as likely be what breaks the planet. But there's still that really big problem of them being fugitives and the Russian, his LMDs, and Watchdogs are still mucking about.

    That popped in my head, too. More so if he stays with that group on the surface.
     
  17. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "Fun & Games"

    Fitz returning basically saved the entire season. Things are still dire, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. The bad guys no longer have every single advantage. I am sad both Tess and Ben died, but on the other hand, the fewer people in the future SHIELD has to protect, the easier their mission will be. I think forming attachments to people who might not even exist if the future is prevented is probably not the smartest or most emotionally healthy thing to do in this scenario.

    I'm a little shocked Kassius and Sinara went out so easily after being billed as the Big Bads of the season, but it's not like they weren't totally sucky people who deserved worse. I'll live with the show getting rid of it's only two current passable villains. Maybe some next ones will be more worthy. Sinara was having none of Kasius' game plan at the end, and it's too bad she stuck with him for as long as she did. She might not have been in the arena had she picked a better ally.

    Both endings were great this episode. I do not know if the season will ultimately redeem itself. But this episode says that is possible. And I hope to God that's true. I do not enjoy hating this show the way I enjoy hating Gotham. Every bad episode actually hurts a little bit. I'm glad things are getting back on track. ****1/2.
     
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  18. Dudley

    Dudley Moderator
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    Wow. I was not expecting so many people to die in this episode, but it was delightfully intense, and it’s nice that things are going the heroes way, after seeing them in such a horrible sticky situation. Fitz saving the day was great too, they should make him a regular field agent from now on. Do we really need two geeky science people in the lab?

    “No tacos? What kind of crazy future is this?!” LOL

    Oh and this new Inhuman with earth powers is definitely more of a threat to the Earth than Daisy. So It’s safe to assume he’s going to the past, and he’s probably not supposed to.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    I never thought of that! Sure it's obvious the team will use the White Monolith to get back to the present but what if they take others with them on purpose or by mistake - heat of the moment? Hmm. Interesting!
     
  20. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "Together Or Not At All"

    The old lady at the end means less than she should since I didn't recognize her, and the previews didn't identify her. The kid who draw pictures maybe? TBD...

    I am truthfully a little disappointed with some of the story turns in this episode. Mack and Yoyo staying behind for now is just going to prolong things for no good reason. Also, I think a lot less of last week if both Kasius and Sinara survived. If the same latitude was not allowed Tess and Ben, I don't think the story is being fair. I also found May far too combative to Enok for supposedly putting them in this mess. No, DAISY put them in this mess. Enok is the guy trying to clean it up. And finally, while I loved the silent and inscrutable performance of Sinara's actress as Kasius' brother promises her the moon, it would have been better for the series if they had left her allegiance hanging. I could tell from the look in her eyes that she thought the brother was full of it, but part of the reason it was great was because it was just the look, and you didn't actually know what she was thinking. If they had teased her fall-out with Kasius longer before repairing their relationship, Sinara could have become a genuine wild-card on the show unlike any other character. We'll never know now because the series bought it back almost immediately.

    I like that Gemma says "Allon-Sy!" just before she jumps, but Fitz should have said "Geronimo!".

    This is Mutant Enemy? I have my problems with the production company, but they usually are not known for taking the least interesting way out on anything, much less nearly everything. A lousy week. *1/2.
     
    #40 Fone Bone, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018

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