"Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." Season Five Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Marvel Live-Action Movies and Television' started by The Penguin, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    44,294
    Likes Received:
    18
    My great apologies, folks. It's been a long week and I nodded off early in the evening. If you're like me, you can catch the season premiere on Hulu starting on Saturday.

    Please note, this thread may contain spoilers and references to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

    'Like' Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. on Facebook
    'Follow' Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. on Twitter

    [​IMG]
    "Orientation" - Season Premiere
    Friday, December 1, 2017 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on ABC
    Coulson and the team find themselves stranded on a mysterious ship in outer space.

    Season One Finale, "Beginning of the End" talkback
    Season Two Finale, "S.O.S." talkback
    Season Three talkback
    Season Four talkback

    ABC.com - Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
     
  2. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,286
    Likes Received:
    101
    That was something else. Very excited about where this season will go.
     
  3. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    21,779
    Likes Received:
    387
    Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "Orientation, Parts 1 and 2"

    It started off interesting, but the more it went on, the more I disliked it. I was scowling by the end. The ending sucked. I am not going to like this season.

    This show is a television show based upon a comic book. And unfortunately this episode (and probably this season) are engaging in the worst tropes of both. Let's start with the sucky comic book tropes, because this is exclusively a Marvel Comics problem. DC never seems to suffer this problem, or at least not for very long.

    The future of the Marvel Universe sucks. Every single possible future basically says all of the heroes' various missions are completely, 100% pointless. Humanity is going to be killed off by either Sentinels or Kree, and every time the heroes seem to prevent one horrible future, another horrific scenario is waiting instead. It's non-stop and depressing, and it really bothers me. And for the most part the MCU has been free of that. Until now. Which makes me very unhappy.

    The bad TV trope the episode engaged in is the idea that Daisy learns she destroyed the world with none of the other teammates present. That pissed me off beyond belief. But that's a total television move, and it's the only kind of move done on network TV shows with 22 episode orders. They are gonna jerk us around with Daisy keeping this secret from the team for several episodes, and then when the secret is revealed, everyone will feel betrayed, and as if she should have trusted them so they could help her. This is what is going to happen. I knew immediately they were in the future, and I know this is going to happen too. And it wouldn't happen if this show had 10 episode seasons, and didn't always need to spin its wheels to pad things. It's infuriating, and tells me that the one consistent thing about this season with the previous ones is that we are going to wind up wasting a lot of time. Maybe if 22 episode network TV shows were all I watched, I wouldn't complain, but I've seen other TV shows do things like this right. And it infuriates me that television shows never seem to have a game-plan well thought out enough that they won't have to stretch drama into such cliched scenarios without blowing through all the mythology. I would like this show to be interesting enough on its own without the team keeping secrets from each other, and the producers jerking us around about what will happen when the truth is uncovered. Nothing is going to happen. They are going to work past it. Like every single other time one of the good teammates keeps a secret like that. And I'm sick that we have to keep playing these types of games on shows like this.

    Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Daisy immediately tells Coulson the truth at the beginning of next week. But I won't hold my breath.

    Speaking of which, only the idea that they were in the future answered every question, so I am a little annoyed that it took them that long to get there. But I get it. Every guess they made was sort of the bargaining stage of grief. They were positing various ideas each slightly worse than the last in the hopes that they wouldn't actually have to face the obvious and the elephant in the room. I think they were probably guessing wrong on purpose by the second half of the first part.

    I am unhappy about Fitz's absence. Simply because Iain De Caestecker is the best actor on the show. I am well aware that he will not be gone forever. The first episode basically telegraphed the entire season. The first half is them trying to get home, the second half is them trying to prevent the apocalypse. And it's the fact that I already know exactly how the next 20 episodes are going to shake down which is why I'm so unimpressed with the premiere.

    Why was Fitz not on the list anyways? Does he have a bad rep in the future? If so, why did they take Daisy? She destroyed the freaking world.

    Speaking of which, who is the bald Observer robot at the beginning? That was pretty much the only dangling plot thread that held my interest.

    I am a little disappointed Coulson's bullet time moment at the beginning wasn't further explored. It must mean something has happened to Coulson's perceptions, and maybe that he's gotten a psychic superpower, but immediately after it happens, Coulson acts like it didn't, and it is never brought up. I'm wondering if they should have saved that idea for an episode that wasn't so crowded they'd have to completely ignore it the second after it happened.

    Every time I see Pruitt Taylor Vince in something I consider him John Favreau's Evil Twin. And yeah, if anyone is the anti-MCU Happy Hogan, it's this load.

    Noticed the reference to the Inhumans TV show immediately.

    Mack states that he knows who is the first one killed off in these scenarios. And I am well aware and pissed off about what happened to Trip. That being said, the one thing in the episode that I loved was everyone deciding NOT to split up. Modern genre is canny enough to often have a wisecracking character say the precise reasons splitting up is dumb, but they do it anyways, sometimes with disastrous consequences, sometimes not. But this episode right here? This is literally the first time in fiction EVER I have seen a character question the wisdom of splitting up, and the characters all agreeing it's dumb, and staying together instead. EV-ER. Mutant Enemy used to do stuff like that ALL the time. But it's getting tedious that trope subverting moments like that are getting rare. They used to happen several times a week on Buffy.

    Virgil dying when he did may have been annoying from a storytelling standpoint, but I will acknowledge the show actually surprised me with it when it happened. There was no music cue, it was a quiet moment that didn't seem especially ominous, and then he's dead before he can tell them the plan. Virgil was not supposed to die in that specific moment. Which is why I'm glad he did.

    I liked last season a lot. I am probably going to hate this one. *.
     
    #3 Fone Bone, Dec 2, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  4. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    31,441
    Likes Received:
    3,660
    Ah, kind of called it. They are in the future. Yeah, they pretty much recycled the same thing of a dangerous secret like when they teased us with someone dying in a Quinjet in space and how it tore up Daisy. I'm still skeptical Daisy is responsible for destroying Earth because it's still entirely possible Deke got pieced it together wrong. There's always the possibility of Thanos being the culprit but in a recent interview about tie-ins with movies, it didn't sound like there's going to be a direct reference -- just the idea they're in space like how last season had Ghost Rider and addressed magic because Doctor Strange was the recent movie. I'd find it more believable that it was a battle against Ian Quinn and/or Franklin Hall. Still waiting for that pay of from season 1...

    And also the same trope of separating someone from the team for a long string of episodes - in the past, Simmons was stuck on Maveth or Daisy was AWOL as Quake - and of course, like Daisy addressing it - something terrible happens to Fitz-Simmons. At least Fitz already managed to deliver them a message through the Lake Ontario postcard.

    But yeah, I hate it but it's inevitable a Whedon show would involve a super depressing apocalyptic future. They flipped the script on AOS but I can see it backfiring and the audience rejecting it. But this is more than likely the last season so it's moot if it was a good idea for them to jump into time travel and Kree instead of dealing with the Watchdogs and the Russian and being fugitives.

    Enoch and the White Monolith are definitely an interesting mystery. An alien operating on Earth posing as a human in some clandestine agency, has future knowledge, stocks his fridge with only one thing has a bunch of children's drawings that look like images of the future he's using as a blueprint, a specific list of S.H.I.E.L.D. agents, hi-tech toys, access to a new kind of Monolith -- very intriguing. Plus, no way of getting back to their own time since it doesn't look like the White Monolith behaves like the black one did with appearing on Maveth periodically. Though it seems the bigger the time jump, the more room for error. Virigil mentioned gravitational flux. That accounts of them ending up in different rooms at different points and Coulson showing up in frozen time.

    Making Kree the big bad was a bold move as well. But at the same time, I'm still thinking about the long list of villains left on Earth to deal with.
     
  5. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    21,779
    Likes Received:
    387
    I'm always convinced this will be the last season. And it somehow always gets renewed. Same with Once Upon A Time. Those two shows being aired one right after the other might make them "Avoiding cancellation by the seat of their pants" soulmates.
     
  6. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    19,769
    Likes Received:
    716
    I actually dug this two-parter. They promised old-school sci-fi, and they delivered, made up words/terminology and everything. The setting/world building was also interesting.

    The female Kree with the steel balls reminded me of Magneto for some reason. :p

    Poor Fitz. Seems like he may miss out on most of the season this year.

    It was an interesting way to bring back the Framework. But I swear, if they manage to squeeze in a Ward cameo...
     
  7. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Happy Holidays
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    619
    Do you know who would be a great world breaker? Graviton. The guy they shelved way back in Season 1, with a tease that he'd be back someday and has yet to show up again. Would they actually use him? I'm not too optimistic that they would but a guy can dream.

    So far, this felt like the little bit I actually saw of Snowpiercer but through the Marvel/SHIELD lens. I really didn't expect the whole future thing to be what they'd kick the season off with but I'm interested so far. I hope it doesn't eat up too much of the season though. Do we have a full 20+ season here? I loved the idea of the three arc season last year and I'd really like to see that done again. This trip into a harsh future is something I'd be fine with for a "visit" but I don't think I'd enjoy a full season of them stuck in this colony.

    I do think the space effects seemed to be well done. It reminded me of why this became my favorite comic show on network tv last year.


    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
     
  8. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    31,441
    Likes Received:
    3,660
    It reminded me of Yondu and his arrow expect he had visible tech in the form of his fin and we know he was a Kree battle-slave. Could be the same kind of tech.

    But Magneto did a steel ball thing in a movie didn't he? Had to.

    I have a theory about that. The colony was revealed to have a name: The Lighthouse. While that could be a nod to a Secret Avengers base from the comics, it follows the tradition of Fury's black ops SHIELD bases on this show having specific codenames. I mean, it could have been a cute set up in the form of the Fury/SWORD/SPEAR/Inhumans callback scene. I'm starting to suspect the Lighthouse might be another of these bases. And when the gang returns to present day Earth, they might find the Lighthouse and make it their new base since the Playground is totally wrecked and compromised. But aside, I think Fitz may join them in the future but in the form of an advanced LMD of himself he designed to help the team get back to the present as a failsafe if he couldn't figure out a solution in his lifetime. And he stashed it in the Lighthouse to activate when a time shift was detected. Plus, a LMD in the mix seems to good to pass up on at this point, lol.

    Yep, that's what I'm thinking, too. See above. If you haven't.

    Yes, 22 like past seasons. I agree, I don't think they'll be in the future all season.
     
  9. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    44,294
    Likes Received:
    18
    S.H.I.E.L.D. moves to its normal time, 9 p.m. ET, and is on right now!

    [​IMG]
    "A Life Spent"
    Friday, December 8, 2017 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on ABC
    Daisy decides she will rescue Simmons, even though she must risk everything to do so.
     
  10. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    21,779
    Likes Received:
    387
    Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "A Life Spent"

    I officially hate this season. It. SUUUUUUUCKS.

    Let's start off with having to watch a huge shirtless man beat a young girl half to death. What the hell were the producers smoking that made them think that was even remotely acceptable entertainment? I suppose they expect us to cheer when she gruesomely kills him, but instead I'm sick to my stomach. And then she's sold into slavery. This is the kind of actual feminism Joss Whedon's production company traffics in. Remember this the next time that jackass claims he's a feminist icon.

    Sigh. It's gonna be that kind of Mutant Enemy season. I had hoped this level of depravity wouldn't effect this show, but it seems to ultimately effect ALL Mutant Enemy shows. Once Whedon gets the bonfides from creating kick-butt female heroes, he either sexually humiliates them, turns them into damsels in distress, or shows unrelated women suffering from horrible violence as a counterpoint to the heroine's supposed awesomeness. I cannot believe I ever used to let this slide, when it is endemic to the entire production company. I am SO over Joss Whedon.

    And don't give me the line that he isn't showrunner and is no longer involved. His name is in the credits as executive producer. If he truly objected to the idea of a young girl getting violently beaten on-screen he could have actually done something about it. He should have. That is his freaking job. But he doesn't care, because his entire brand of feminism and liberalism is completely fake and phony, and I am no longer going to fall for it. It NEVER ends with this jag-off. I'm over it. I cannot believe I was ever a fan.

    Ugh. Let's try and see if I can discuss the couple other things of note without puking.

    1. The multiverse theory is probably wrong. I don't think Quake destroyed the Earth in a parallel timeline. If so, there would be no reason to bring her into the future. The fact that SHIELD and her were both brought to the future says this is something that happened on the MCU Earth, and will occur after the Agents are sent back. They are definitely going home. The trick will be in then making sure that future doesn't come to pass.

    2. I think Coulson and Simmons are overthinking the "No kill" policy. As far as the Agents of SHIELD should be concerned, every single person in the future should be an acceptable loss to the team. Because if they prevent the future, none of it will happen. I'm sure that will be the rationalization for showing that girl's beating. But damn it, they actually put it on-screen. It doesn't matter if it is retconned. It is horrific to witness on every level.

    If this show was not tied into the larger MCU, I would drop out after this episode. If the show delivers more episodes like this, I will anyways. 0.
     
    #10 Fone Bone, Dec 9, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  11. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    31,441
    Likes Received:
    3,660
    EPISODE 91 A LIFE SPENT

    I'm content with the pacing. Just 3 episodes in and things are developing at a fair rate: we learn Kasius makes money off selling Inhumans and Coulson's group learned there's someone on Earth who was communicating with Virgil and has answers he was going to give them. And this season has already synched up with the season 4 finale teaser of Coulson waking up and getting ready to "work".

    Pretty cool that Mack is still holding onto S.H.I.E.L.D. training and ideology - by using himself as distraction to recon Grill's office and later to argue against Tess' plan to vent Zev -- and he's the guy that's "quit". I guess Mack and the others are still holding onto the fact they were trained in the world of espionage and the opponents they mark off are terrorists and the like. But these on the Lighthouse aren't spies, mercs, or HYDRA. Just people. Zev is just doing his job really. Mack's always been a noble character and standing up to Tess did make sense. Going along with venting Zev would have been too easy a solution and wrong for Mack's character. But in the end, Zev still dies but additionally they weakened Grill by dispensing with his axe man and planting the lie that he was betrayed. That's more of a spy thing to do. Shrug. And, well, the Kree. They're gonna keep getting killed.

    Daisy makes a good point about not being powerful enough to quake Earth apart. I'm still not buying it that she's the cause and still hoping it's the return of Franklin Hall. Shoe Guy knows all scene was amusing. Great elevator fight but it seems like they're giving all those scenes to Bennet and less to Ming-Na which is a pity. But I suspect the reason for the bum leg was probably because Ming-Na's on-set injury still hasn't healed completely from last season's production. But ah, Daisy, you got too ahead of yourself and got caught because she let her guard down with Deke. Kind of a rookie move. I fault the writer's room on that. I hate they keep trying to do the same wash and repeat arc with Daisy every season.

    Makes sense Inhumans are still a thing and now being used as a hot commodity by Kasius to make some bank. Abby could have been an interesting character but eh. She's 18, not exactly a kid, but still she looked way younger and -- that fight ending with killing a person and she hardly flinches. Man, the Lighthouse people. Cookie cutter Whedon show post-apocalypse. I think that's the one thing that's going to drive fans away. But I hope and suspect the show will get back to standard AOS with at least one "present day" episode real soon to bring Fitz into the season -- who should be trying to track down Enoch's crew while not getting caught by Talbot's people. Would be too easy if that White Monolith is still where it was in the present in the future on what's left of Earth and they just have to get there when the 'window' opens again. But a concern in the back of my head is they've shown with Raina's visions or the death of Lincoln, they've already set up the rule that the future can't be changed... but I didn't believe Deke's M-theory for a second. The characters have been throwing out red herring theories since the premiere as subterfuge for the audience.

    Nice callback if I understood May's 'less than 24 hours' comment -- referring to that Russian flashback to her and Coulson's early days last season. Loved that quiet moment of Coulson putting a hand on May's shoulder then May putting her hand on Coulson's. Nice spin on things for Coulson to be grave for once and May to tell him he's going overboard. heh. I dug that little moment after Zev stuck the others and May just exhales nonchalant -- 'what a surprise, I have to bail them out again'. Priceless.

    Got to note for the Trawler, I thought it was a neat touch that it resembled a feeding whale shark design-wise as they hauled in debris. Also, the 616 reference to the comics was a nice touch. I think they last did a 616 nod was in the first season with the fleet of Buses.

    So it seems another group of people separate from the Lighthouse exist or they're deserters who somehow survived being left to die by the Kree? These could be the True Believers.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Happy Holidays
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    619
    I was watching this episode, thinking about how much harder it is for me to get into regular sci-fi than it used to be and realized that this show is pretty much 100% sci-fi right now. After all of the ups and downs with the show, I feel pretty attached to this crew of characters and I want to see them get out of this in one piece while also causing positive change but the situation feels so impossible at the moment. There is no way that this won't have long lasting effects on the characters. I always knew that the Kree empire could be monstrous (they had to have been if they helped cause the Skrulls to become how they are) but Kasius just feels so despicable. He's pretty much going full on Caligula with the humans. I was really buying the story that they fed future Kitty Pryde about putting on a performance and being an ambassador, so seeing them just turn her into a gladiator slave was disheartening. If I was one of these guys, and Virgil wasn't dead already, I'd probably hurt him myself for pulling me into this mess.

    I just remembered the 616 reference.

    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
     
  13. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    19,769
    Likes Received:
    716
    Intense episode all around.

    I was wondering when we'd see those xenomorph-esque aliens again.

    The fight with the young Inhuman was brutal - but I'm glad she won. Hope we see her again.

    Yo-Yo was a stand-out in this episode. Love the scene where she managed to give the item to Daisy.

    Speaking of Daisy, she gets all the best action scenes in the show. Enjoyed how she took down those Kree goons. Too bad about that betrayal...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Happy Holidays
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    619
    I enjoyed Daisy's fight scene, too. That was pretty fun. It was kind of funny that she slipped from the elevator ceiling in the first place since it feels as though most action heroes in similar situations don't. Even without the betrayal, I couldn't picture her attack having a good outcome.

    Mack seemed pretty uneasy about YoYo planting the gun on Zev.

    Sent from my AT7-B using Tapatalk
     
  15. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,286
    Likes Received:
    101
    I thought he seemed proud. It was the response to his move earlier in the ep. I'll have to rewatch it. Yo-Yo is showing off her spy skills.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Happy Holidays
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    619
    It might have just been my perspective. I'll rewatch the scene.

    Sent from my AT7-B using Tapatalk
     
  17. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    31,441
    Likes Received:
    3,660
    It just dawned on me that Lady Basha was a humanoid alien like ones you'd see on GoTG. I wonder if they'll get into what race she is. I doubt she's a pink Kree.
     
  18. BlackoutCreature

    BlackoutCreature Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    48
    I was under the impression that Basha and all the pink-skinned Humanoid aliens were Xandarian. As near as I can tell the only pink-skinned Humanoids we've seen were either Human/Terran, Xandarian, Asgardian, and whatever race the Collector and Grandmaster were.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    44,294
    Likes Received:
    18
    S.H.I.E.L.D. is on now!

    [​IMG]
    "A Life Earned"
    Friday, December 15, 2017 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on ABC
    Coulson and the team discover their captors' true intentions.
     
  20. Dudley

    Dudley Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    524
    How was Quake able to destroy the world if she was sent into the future before it happened?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page

  • Find Toonzone on Facebook

  • Toonzone News

  • Comic Book Solicitations

  • Toonzone Fan Sites


Tac Anti Spam from Surrey Forum