"Man of Steel" Pre-Release Discussion, Part 4 (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, Aug 4, 2010.

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  1. Bat-Fan Beyond

    Bat-Fan Beyond Active Member

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    Although I think it's still great, despite being a bit dated by today's standards, I love John Byrne's Man of Steel, but I have to agree with Shawn Hopkins and suss2it -- I'm in favor of the "S" shield being a crest of the House of El and the media (preferrably Lois Lane) mistaking the symbol for the letter "S" and giving him the name Superman.

    In the Superman: Birthright comic series, Mark Waid changed the "S" into a symbol of Krypton as a whole -- representing the entire planet and all of its people in general. I didn't like this idea at all. I'd much rather it be the El family's coat of arms like it was in Superman: The Movie.
     
  2. Aquadementia

    Aquadementia That's a lot of Mulaney!
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    Didn't think of that, but your probably right. They probably need to get the cape off of him the second the camera stops so they can keep it looking good.

    I'm not completely against using CGI for the cape in some instances, Superman does do some impossible things like super speed, I just don't want to see a lot of over awesomeness or acting like the cape is it's own animated character in the movie.
    [xspoiler=nonsense]Although, there is that motion capture guy doing something. Maybe he's the stand in for the cape, who will be voiced by Dave Chappelle.
    Superman: "Thanks Cape. You really saved my bacon."
    Cape: "Don't mention it Sup's, you know I always got your back."[/xspoiler]
     
  3. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    I have no problems with it. It does look like Superman with a 2011 update, which is much needed. It looks like something an alien would wear, which Superman is. This could be a theme of Superman embracing his Kryptonian cultures while living as a human on Earth. C'mon guys: Superman needs an update, to be brought up to date. And the CGI cape? Cavill's probably not wearing the cape for rehearsal and will put it on for for filming. Even if I'm wrong, I don't have a problem with it. Whatever looks best. It looks nothing like the Superman Lives concept. This is similar to the classic look with some alien enhancements. It looks nothing like this:
    [​IMG]
    Could be worse guys.
     
  4. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    i'm not trying to be a wise guy, but in case anyone is interested/curious, in the comics (the stories that are part of cannon, or was part cannon before today's dc reboot), the "S" is the symbol for "hope" on krypton.

    i honestly dont care where the "S" comes from in someone's superman story. i'll be happy if it stands for "hope", the house of el, if the kents designed it, ect.

    here's the pre-crisis meaning/origin of the "S":
    http://superman.nu/Costumes/designed.php
     
  5. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    Does he really? Some things are just classic. He's he most important character in one of the most important uniquely American art forms, I'm not sure he should change with the faddish winds.

    My theory about the disappearing cape is that it probably weighs 20 pounds, at least. They've already got the poor guy out there in the August sun in a plastic suit, taking it off between takes is probably just a small mercy. :)
     
  6. TheGunheart

    TheGunheart Darkness and Disgrace

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    To me, the ideal would be a Superman work set during the '30s.
     
  7. Buddy Lee

    Buddy Lee Hollywood pitchman

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    My sentiments exactly. Why change just for the sake of change? While his costume has been altered slightly from his Golden Age roots, the Silver and Modern Age costume has remained relatively the same. In the Byrne reboot, he emphasized the chest emblem more which was cool with me as long as the iconic costume remained relatively unchanged.

    After the mess that was the Green Lantern film, the puzzling release of a Jonah Hex movie (was there really a large outcry for a big screen adaptation of Jonah Hex?), the development hell that is the Wonder Woman movie, the questin begs: is DC deliberately self-sabotaging itself?? Are they doing this to make Batman look that much better than the other heroes?

    You know how you kill a Superman movie...put him in such a ridiculous costume that it literally distracts you in every scene Superman is in. How can I pay attention to the plot when Superman looks this silly??
     
  8. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    Jonah Hex is awesome, just because his movie wasn't good doesn't mean the character can't support a movie. And your idea about DC, or I guess WB sabotaging themselves to prop up Batman is beyond stupid. Why would WB, a business that wants to maximize profits, minimize them just to make Batman look cool? What do they gain from such nonsense? They'd rather have Green Lantern, Jonah Hex, The Losers, Wonder Woman and Man of Steelall break box-office records, it just happens they haven't been able to assemble a creative team that could do that with those characters. Maybe the execs are bad at their jobs, maybe people only want Batman, or maybe the timing is off, but the idea that a for-profit organization goes out of its way to make less profit seems like the least-likely possibility for why WB has failed with making profitable DC movies so far.
     
  9. Buddy Lee

    Buddy Lee Hollywood pitchman

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    I was being sarcastic. I really don't think they are sabotaging themselves on purpose. But it makes you wonder with the creative choices they made and are making.

    I agree that Jonah Hex is a cool character and in the hands of the right screenwriter and director it could have been a quality film. But the Jonah Hex movie was gosh-awful.
     
  10. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    What I mean is: An alien planet has a symbol for Family that resembles a lot like an Western Culture Human language "S" and a member of that family comes to a planet where the Yellow sun makes him stronger, faster and able to fly like a "Superman".

    The Alien bathed by the Yellow Sun being stronger, faster and able to fly, and the media calling him "Superman" and after, that, Clark Kent decided to sport an "S" on his chest is more believable in my opinion.

    I didn't see it that way. He never actively embraced right away. He didn't want to do that, but things turned out that way. He wanted to have his Human life preserved so he created the "Superman" persona. Byrne always stressed the "Clark Kent is who I am, Superman is what I do" thing. This makes the character more relatable.

    I didn't think Clark was Yuppie in the Byrne's series. He never embraced consumerism, capitalism and other things Yuppies did support in the 80's. His main villain was a Corporate Mogul. He was ultra-patriotic, but I think it fits the character. And it was a main point of antagonism with Batman that was a more anarchic, anti-establishment character.

    In addition, By making Superman a little aloof, he was able to maintain the Clark Kent (his true self) below radar and didn't had to be extra goofy (as Pre-Crisis was) to differentiate Clark from Superman to the people's eyes.

    You have to take into consideration that Superman was not the 1st DC character on the universe timeline. There were the Justice Society before and he could have take their example when he decided to embrace the name the media has given to him: Superman

    Making the "S" a Kryptonian symbol reminds too much of the previous movies: Donner's and Singer's, and for what I understand they are trying to do very different from what was done before. So making the "S" a human symbol, as it was more logically, it would go one step further to differentiate this new franchise from the old one.
     
  11. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    How is the first any less believable? Even in human cultures there's symbols that represent one thing to one culture and a completely different thing to another, so why wouldn't the same be true for an alien planet?

    But that most likely won't be the case here.

    That would be such an arbitrary thing to change though. I doubt the general public even remembers that from either movie, it's not like the explanation was a standout scene in Donner's movies. I don't even remember when they do explain it.
     
  12. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    They didn't need to explain it. Jor-El just wore an outfit with the Superman "S" logo on his chest.

    More on John Byrne's Man of Steel: I also liked that the fact Superman outfit was created on Earth, rather than Krypton. I liked the semi-scientific explanation for Supes powers as if he was a Kryptonian Solar battery and his body emits an aural field that encompasses tight clothing, and because of that, his clothes were indestructible, but not the cape. That's why he needed to wear tights. I hope they maintain something about it in this movie as well.
     
  13. Aquadementia

    Aquadementia That's a lot of Mulaney!
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    That aura thing is one of the worst examples of coming up with a ridiculous explanation for something that doesn't really need an explanation.

    I like speculating about odd things and inventing theories as much as the next net nerd.
    But most of them, like this one, don't really add anything, raise more questions then they answer, and are just plain over thinking things.

    He has x-ray vision, super strength and the ability to keep his clothes neat and tidy. Yeah, one of those things isn't exactly an A list power.
    Everyone needs to keep their clothes neat and tidy.
     
  14. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    The super strength is explained by the Solar Battery theory. He stores energy from the sun and can use it as flying and strength. The X-Ray is left in the open if I recall it.

    The aura actually explains the neat and tidy clothes as well, because it is tight to his body. There's an explicit line from Martha Kent about it. His cape can be ripped apart and get dirty though.

    Byrne used the aura thing to explain how Earthling clothes would be indestructible. His outfit being made in Smallville was a strong point of his more Earthling, less Kryptonian Superman concept.

    If the clothing were made in Smallville and never get dirty or ripped apart with no explanation why it would be confusing.
     
  15. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    I honestly don't think anyone would care. But now that you've brought it up, maybe that's why Superman is now wearing armour in "The New 52".
     
  16. Dragnatek

    Dragnatek Well-Known Member

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    Superman has always had a rather bland suit. not that I would ever change that.
     
  17. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    Having a cape that's not invincible is just stupid, honestly. As soon as he hits superspeed it would be ripped off his body by air resistance. I think you've just got to have indestructible clothes to explain things. Is it really so crazy that there might be some blankets in a crib? It makes more sense than giving him completely new powers so you can occasionally draw a"kewl" ripped cape.
     
  18. Aquadementia

    Aquadementia That's a lot of Mulaney!
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    People are already saying the costume in this movie looks more alien. You would think it would be simpler looking if Ma Kent had made it.

    I can’t see them going into that much detail about how his powers work anyhow.

    All the aura really does is protect his modesty.
    Having a force field projecting beyond his body is just weird. Superman’s powers are about strength. The man of steel, not the man of some sort of energy field.
    Force fields seem like a power that belongs to some other superhero, like Sue Storm/Invisible Woman, and I don’t know if she is actually using her powers just to keep looking nice in battle.

    It’s a bad way to explain why he’s not naked at the end of every fight.
    No one should end up naked at the end of a fight in comics or movies. It’s just one of those quirks about modern culture we have.
    Batman; Spider-man; any non Kryptonian that Superman fights; they all get roughed up pretty good and I haven’t heard anyone suggest they need a modesty force field.

    I don’t know what his costume is made of, but I don’t think it needs to be anything beyond Earth technology. After all, if Lex Luthor wanted a high endurance, fire proof suit the material would be delivered to his tailor in about ten minutes.
    Why shouldn't Superman have access to anything?
     
    #478 Aquadementia, Sep 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2011
  19. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    X-ray vision and flight aren't about strength. Neither is super speed or heat vision really but one could make a case for them either way. His powers aren't about strength but a random collection of powers they threw against the wall to see what stuck. He's had super weaving powers and super hypnosis for crying out loud. ;)

    Generally I don't mind aura to explain why his clothes don't get damaged (especially since it's just an extension of his invincibility) or the tactile telekinesis to explain why whenever he lifts something really big (like a cruise ship) it doesn't immediately fall apart. I don't think they need to be explained in the movie as these are just little things that have been made to try and have superman make sense. Having someone explain why Superman doesn't loose his clothes in a realistic setting would grind the film to a screeching halt.

    I've never been fond of the "Martha made the indestructible suit out of Clark's baby blankets from his ship" though. He just happened to have lots of long baby blankets in red, blue, and yellow colours in the ship that we never see when the Kent’s take him out of it? Yeah I don't buy that. Jor El and Lara either packed a lot of different baby blankets into the tiny ship for no real reason or the baby blankets on Krypton are really freaking huge. ;)
     
  20. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    No. It's because they stretch. Seriously, Superman used to be able to stretch out his cape to do things like pick up water or cover bombs, and his cape and suit are made from the same material. And of course she had Clark's help making the suit. And you do see the blankets in the Donner movie.

    http://www.screencaptured.com/superbabyblanket.html

    This is all a moot point for this movie anyway. Like Aquadementia said, there's no way his momma made him that suit, it's clearly some kind of Kryptonian ceremonial suit or armor.
     
    #480 Shawn Hopkins, Sep 3, 2011
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