"Lucifer" Season Three Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by The Penguin, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer "'Til Death Do Us Part"

    This is the Lucifer I signed up for at the beginning of season one! The guy who walks into a club and kicks everyone's ass without breaking a sweat. Who gets a major drug dealer to confess ALL of his crimes in exchange for a top secret drug recipe upon his release from prison. The guy who hilariously tells the murderer about her husband: "Oh for God's sake, he wasn't having an affair with her, she was his drug-dealer!" I take no solace in the idea that they reconciled. Because couples sent to separate prisons are not afforded conjugal visits.

    Speaking of Lucifer being amazing at his job, he was REALLY smart to listen to Maze's specific advice. It was genius. And I think it's the key. Pierce is a bit disgusted at the therapy routine. But this is a guy who says he has tried everything. So try EVERYTHING, dude! And it is not lost on me that he always looks most pained and uncomfortable when dealing with other people's feelings. I think Lucifer found his Kryptonite. It's his refusal to get attached to other people. I don't know how that will work, but that's got to be it.

    Speaking of Maze, she's insane. It wasn't funny or hot, it was embarrassing for everyone involved. Were I Dan, I'd never speak to her again. Maybe she shouldn't be pining for Amenadiel. The specific hot mess she was acting like tells me she and Linda would probably make the better match.

    Speaking of gay couples, Pierce sucks at undercover. Yes, Lucifer is bisexual so he kisses him when it is appropriate to do so, and isn't weirded out like Pierce. But if that were Pierce's biggest problem in the episode, it wouldn't be too much of a problem. But at the dinner he seems to be secretly seething, and undercutting the friendly and inviting gay neighbor atmosphere Lucifer is spending all of this time cultivating. I don't think he's doing it precisely because he doesn't want to share. He could make something up if that were true. I think he's just bad at UC work. Which considering that was his last position in the department, that is somewhat alarming.

    My biggest regret in this episode is that I am positive Lucifer being this useful and kickass is just a one-off, and the writers will go back to making him the series' idiot next week. But I'll take it whenever I can get it. ****1/2.
     
  2. Road to Gotham

    Road to Gotham Well-Known Member

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    I too found the last episode to be a good one.
    Lucifer and Cain doing undercover work was funny.

    The Folks at CBR think Welling is doing his best work on LUCIFER.
    Not sure I agree but it has been mostly entertaining.

    https://www.cbr.com/tom-welling-lucifer-tv-smallville/
     
  3. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Welling was very underrated on Smallville. It's not like the writers there gave him a ton of chances to stretch, but whenever he did, he knocked it out of the park. He was absolutely amazing in the episode where he and Lionel switched bodies. Everybody always talks up Michael Rosenbaum as Lex, but Welling was putting in solid performances, week in and week out for ten entire seasons, and not quite getting his due for it. Lex was the flashier role. Clark was the thankless one.
     
  4. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer "My Brother's Keeper"

    I had some objections to that watching it, but they were mostly addressed by the end of the episode.

    Objection the First:

    I objected to Linda turning away Charlotte at her office. But the episode wisely pointed at that Lucifer's mother tried to kill her. But essentially the real reason I objected to her being turned away is because, professionally speaking, Linda is the only person who CAN help Charlotte Richards. She is the only human on Earth who knows she isn't crazy. That is why Lucifer sent her to her.

    Resolution Verdict:

    Resolved. Linda decides to go to Charlotte, and offer her the help she needs. Probably because she realized what I just said was true.

    Objection The Second:

    Lucifer notes that Ella's brother would be in jail if any other cop than Chloe had handled the case. I objected to that idea because that is not a good thing. There should not be two sets of rules for people related to cops.

    Resolution Verdict:

    Resolved. Lucifer thinks the same as me, and caught the brother in the act, of stealing diamonds and was right all along. Some people might think that Lucifer letting him go is exactly the problem with the police department, but the thing is, Lucifer is the actual Devil. The brother is not off the hook. If anything, he's in even more trouble than if he had been sent to prison for a murder he didn't commit. Murder jail terms last decades. Hell is forever.

    Objection The Third:

    Pierce threatens Amenadiels' life, and when he doesn't budge, points a gun at an innocent stranger. Finally, he unloads the gun into the air in a crowded room, but the police are never called, and he never has to answer for that.

    Resolution Verdict:

    Unresolved. What I disliked about this not being resolved is that is very easily could have been. Amenadiel warns Lucifer that Pierce is dangerous, but Lucifer says, "That's the point of teaming up with him." But if Lucifer knew the specific things that Cain did, like threatening to kill his brother, and then threatening the life of an innocent person, I doubt Luci would still Team Cain. Lucifer is not only helping Pierce because he wants to anger his father. That is the excuse. But in reality, part of him likes and sympathizes with him. That might change if he learned Pierce threatened to murder an innocent person because he didn't get his way.

    Other things of note:

    Speaking of innocence, Lucifer describes Charlotte Richards as "innocent woman". That is thought provoking to me, because she DID wind up in Hell. Lucifer has stated that people only go to Hell if they personally believe they deserve it deep down. Him calling Charlotte innocent suggests he knows and believes many people in Hell don't actually belong there.

    The dumbest thing in the episode was Lucifer talking about brothers who refuse to help you murder someone. How is it that Lucifer can say something like that in a roomful of cops and everybody just instantly drops it without further questions? That is one of the things I hate about the show, and one of the flaws built into the conceit of the show. People are dumber than they need to be, because if they weren't, they'd believe Lucifer, and the show would be over. I understand this perfectly well, and get the rationale here. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

    For the record, Pierce was insightful to point out that Amenadiel tried to kill Lucifer. Lucifer has never done that to Amenadiel, which is another thing that states Lucifer is a more virtuous person than his brother.

    Above average episode. ***1/2.
     
  5. Otaku-sempai

    Otaku-sempai Well-Known Member

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    Okay, you know that it's not as simple as: You sin, you go to Hell. There is the opportunity for confession, penance and forgiveness. Granted, repentance is supposed to be sincere with a real effort to not repeat the sin.

    And if innocent souls can end up in Hell because they believe that they deserve it, can guilty souls go to Heaven because they believe that their sin was justified?
     
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  6. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    According to the rules set up, yes. Which tells me the Universe is badly designed, and Lucifer is correct to be as pissed off at his father as he is.
     
  7. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    Am I the only one who finds Maze and Trixie especially annoying?
     
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  8. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer “High School Poppycock”

    Okay, the episode sucked. Let’s get that opinion out of the way immediately. But it DID raise a ton of questions for me about writing and the nature of writing. Which fascinates me.

    I write. (See sig). I’m not great, but I’m not terrible. But it’s definitely a hobby for me, and I like what I have come up with. But this episode states a problem that I had no idea that other writers struggled with. Apparently the author Kathleen got into so much trouble because she had no idea how to end her fantasy series. Which fascinates and worries me. I’ve heard of writer’s block before. I’ve gone through a bit of it myself, and just stopped writing for 15 years. But the notion that somebody would start and commit to an epic fantasy series without knowing how to end it strikes me as something that should never be true. Apparently part of the joke is that the Class of 3001 books are kind of dumb and badly written, but the writers of Lucifer are basically stating that it is common for a writer to simply make things up as they go along. That worries me. Not only because I never have done that in my entire life, but because it hints that the writers of this show don’t have a larger gameplan, and don’t seem to think there is a problem with the fact that they don’t. What worries me is that this plot turn makes it sound like the writers thinking an author of a series writing by the seat of their pants is normal. And if it is, that fascinates and disturbs me. Disturbs me because it suggests all of Hollywood is on shakier ground than I ever suspected, and fascinates me because I’ve never had that problem. I write the endings and climaxes to the stories in my head first. My problem has always been getting from the beginning of the story to the awesomeness that the endings will be. I still haven’t gotten there yet. But I definitely know what the endings are, and I know they are fantastic. Which is why I’m writing all that I am in the first place. Paying my dues to get there. It would never occur to me to publish the first part of a story with no clue how it ended, and if that’s something a ton of writers actually do, it’s no wonder most fantasy books and TV series ultimately have such underwhelming endings. I feel better about my project after seeing this episode. But much worse for all of the unfinished shows and books I follow. It suggests professional writers are worse at their jobs than I am as a hobbyist. Which should never be true.

    For the record, hearing Kathleen’s original ending to end things with the characters talking out their problems and making peace is an ending I would love unreservedly in any action oriented show I watched. That’s basically the entire reason Star Trek: The Next Generation and Captain Picard were so awesome in the first place. The publisher finding that idea more boring than a space war is missing the forest for the trees. Exploring character dynamics and conflict resolution is the most important part of any given story to me. That’s probably the precise reason Star Trek was my go-to fandom growing up. Any sci-fi hero can shoot their way out of a problem. But convincing the bad guy it is in their best interest to stand down is a special kind of awesome. This may be just me, (and it probably is) but I always love those endings more than the shoot-outs and the slugfests. I personally think Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker is the best Batman film, live-action or animated, because the climax was talky and psychological, rather than action-packed. And I find those things far more riveting than bullets or explosions.

    Linda saying that she’s not selfish and is always the one who listens to other people’s problems shows she IS selfish. That’s her job. She gets paid for that. And she wants to act like she should be treated as some sort of altruist for it. True, Amenadiel and Maze never pay for her advice. But they’re her friends. They shouldn’t have to. Linda thinks she is a martyr simply for passing the barest standards of human friendship and decency. Which is another reason I think she is the worst character on the show.

    I am very aware Tom Welling was not contracted for this episode. It feels very strange that Lucifer is so obsessed with Cain’s problems and he isn’t even there. Television is often too cheap for its own good.

    The episode tried to play it as funny that Chloe was getting into the books and acting the hot mess, but I wouldn’t advise trying something like this again. Lauren Germann has no comic timing and sensibilities. You’d figure they’d make sure she did before leaning so heavily into her for funny scenes, but in the writers’ defense, it’s not like she’s ever needed to try and be funny before this. But Germann is NOT funny at all. For the record, she’s not a good dramatic actress either, and even if Chloe isn’t the worst character the show, I’ve always believed Germann was the worst actor. By far. The fact that I don’t get what Lucifer sees in someone that morose and boring shows that the entire show is flawed from the ground up, entirely due to that piece of miscasting. Lucifer might wind up a good series when all is said and done. But it’s the fact that it completely miscast the crucial female lead which is why it will never be a great one.

    Making it up as they go along. Will wonders never cease? **1/2.
     
    #28 Fone Bone, Feb 27, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  9. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer “Infernal Guinea Pig”

    For some reason, it really amuses me to hear the Biblical Cain call the Biblical Abel an asshat. And just based on this episode, he totally was. I might have ultimately wound up murdering him myself in Cain’s place.

    The scene with Charlotte confessing her personal hell to Linda was extremely sad and riveting. It’s amazing that she interviewed Abel when she did. Abel’s the one person on Earth who was going through what she was, and told her exactly what she needed to hear. There will be some who consider it unlikely yet predictable that Abel says the precise, insightful things she does to Charlotte, but this isn’t really a franchise that deals with coincidences. Fate and destiny exist. So if anyone asks, that’s what I’ll call this.

    I love that Lucifer has a reputation for never breaking deals. I love that the most recognizable thing about the Vertigo Devil is his sense of honesty and ethics. Which is precisely why Lucifer tends to be easier to like or root for than any previous screen versions of Satan we’ve seen.

    Am I the only one annoyed that Chloe was hurt that Pierce “took” Lucifer from her? At that point I just wanted to shake her and scream “Not everything is about YOU!”

    I like Maze instantly agreeing to help Lucifer when he tells her it’s the exact opposite of what Amenadiel wants. I also like that Amenadiel ultimately takes her abuse and she tells him he ruins everything. Including hating him. And that pretty much sums up Amenadiel’s role on the series. He’s a buzzkill, but his intentions are good, so you wish you could legitimately hate him for it more than you do.

    Good week. ****.
     
    #29 Fone Bone, Mar 6, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  10. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer "Let Pinhead Sing!"

    How self-involved is Linda? She can't help turning Lucifer's therapy session all about herself.

    Tom Welling is an amazingly bad singer.

    There will be nitpickers who complain that since Lucifer supposedly never lies, he shouldn't be telling Bob, who he just met, that's he's his favorite person on Earth. Here's the thing: I truly believe he means it when he says it. Look at the loving look on Tom Ellis' face. That passes mythology muster with me.

    I like Lucifer pointing out to "Pinhead" that being under a rock itself would be painful.

    Dan's so dumb, he thinks he and Pierce are friends. Isn't he just useless? He is basically the first person besides Lucifer himself Pierce has ever opened up to, and he wants to drop it immediately because Pierce's thoughts disturb him so much. If that was the case, maybe he shouldn't have offered to be an ear in the first place.

    Speaking of that, I love that Charlotte wants to hear Linda's problem because she wants to become less self-involved. I don't think that actually tracks for why a person is in therapy, but it works for me.

    That being said, Linda consenting her mediating her personal dispute with Maze was beyond unprofessional. It's not like Linda isn't the worst and most unethical fictional therapist I have ever seen, but that was so extra sucky, I thought it beared mentioning here.

    I personally agree with Maze that she did nothing wrong. If conflict resolution exists to admit fault on both sides, it's worthless. Because both sides are not always at fault. And I think a lot of people get away with the amount of crap they do because they've convinced the person they've wronged that they are equally responsible for the mess THEY started. That is a problem with society, and I don't like that this show is feeding into it.

    I'm sure some conflict resolution knob will argue with me that Maze is being too unreasonable and too unforgiving. But so what? Why should she be reasonable and forgiving about this? What specific thing has Linda done to deserve that reason and forgiveness? If Linda was not the absolute hottest of messes dialed up to 11 at all times, about every single thing, I might think Maze should go easier on her. In fact, this is actually Linda's selfish chicken actions finally coming home to roost, and it is about freaking time.

    I like the idea that the singer thinks spending time at Lucifer's penthouse doesn't sound so bad after all. The Devil IS supposed to be appealing.

    That "I Will Survive" sequence was SO painful to witness. Ugh. Television. I hate it. I hate everything about it.

    The manager was the worst suspect ever. As he noted, why kill the Golden Goose for one Egg? I can't believe Chloe arrested him after that. Her quip about him maybe not liking the Goose SOUNDS like it makes sense, but it doesn't really. It don't matter how much the Goose's personality sucks. If it poops up Golden Eggs on a regular basis, you keep it around.

    I hated the ending. I hate whenever this show turns into the Devil making moon-eyes at a morose, hot woman. That's not why I watch this show and never was.

    A mixed bag. Lucifer doting over background characters was charming, but not much else was. ***.
     
  11. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer "The Last Heartbreak"

    I hate Maze. She thinks that just because Linda treats her like garbage means that she's entitled to do the same thing to everyone who cares about her. I was appalled that Trixie heard what she said (and that we never saw the fall-out from that). But worse, I was appalled that Dan let her get away with what she did simply because she knew he killed a guy.

    Honestly, having the babysitter have a guy over who sleeps in your daughter's bed is a firing offense. He should have insisted to Chloe that Maze move out upon that. The pot brownie? Not only would Trixie have been expelled for that in real life, but social services would have taken her away from Chloe for her own protection. And Maze acts like her not ruining the Decker's lives due to carelessness is actually a HUGE burden she has to bear. I hate her. Unreservedly. And I didn't until this week.

    And where is Chloe while this is going down? How is Olga the first time she is hearing about this? Why hasn't Dan said anything yet? The characters on this show make me want to scream. If Trixie was taken away to live in an orphanage, the fact that Chloe didn't know about the pot brownie by the end of the episode means that that would have been the right decision.

    Team Pierce / Maddie. Just sayin'.

    Speaking of horrible people, I pretty much snorted in contempt at Linda declaring what a bad idea telling the truth to Charlotte was. She's all "Well, I was a normal person and I fell apart. And Charlotte's hanging on by thread." You really think you are a normal person, Linda? Do you REALLY think that? Do you truly think you are anything but a self-centered hot mess? You think you are actually stronger than a fierce, cutthroat, ball-busting Amazon Lawyer who went to hell and back and is still standing? Seriously? Sure, Linda. Sure.

    I think Amenadiel finds that notion unlikely too if the fact that he ignored her terrible advice is any indication. Linda was probably just worried that Charlotte would realize Linda has been lying to her this entire time. Did I mention that Linda is literally the worst fictional therapist I have ever seen?

    See, I thought Studs' Mark DeCarlo was dead. I read his obit earlier this year. I am sorry to find out the obit was wrong. IMDB says he is still alive and kicking. Too bad, The world is worse off for him being in it.

    Ella continues to be the worst judge of character ever. Yeah, Lucifer is worried about "the partnership", Ella. Right. The people on this show are so stupid.

    The case was all right, and the one decent thing about the episode. Everything else sucked.

    Everyone on this show is an idiot. *.
     
  12. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer "Orange Is The New Maze"

    Pierce is a bad dude. He doesn't understand women if he actually thinks getting rid of the cat is the solution.

    I love that Maze is offended by Lucifer's attempts at comfort. I actually think Lucifer's heart was in the right place when he said it, but I think he accidentally said it in an insulting way he didn't intend to. Honesty is Lucifer's best quality. But it also makes him a bit unfiltered and not prone to choose his words carefully.

    Speaking of which, I loved his scene telling Charlotte the truth. He tells her every crazy thing matter of factly, as if it's no big deal, and truly sounds like he believes it. I also LOVED how she lit up at the wings. Linda thinks the truth would destroy her? In reality, it is the thing that saves her sanity.

    I always talk smack about Linda, but this week she was even more contemptible than usual. She tells Amenadiel him telling Charlotte the truth is what is best for him, not her. Pot meet kettle. In reality, Amendadiel keeping the truth for Charlotte is better for LINDA, and that's Linda's actual objection. What will Charlotte think when she realizes Linda has been lying to her this whole time and deliberately steering her away from the truth? What is especially bad about what Linda did is that the only reason Lucifer directed Charlotte to her is because he knew Linda was the one person on Earth who could relate to what she was going through, and help her navigate it. And Linda has refused to do that at every turn. Did I mention she is the worst therapist ever?

    She's also the worst person ever if the truth sets Charlotte free, and it previously turned Linda against her friends. I don't want to hear Linda say Charlotte is holding on by a thread anymore. She is and always has been a stronger person than Linda.

    I loved Lucifer's reactions to Maze this episode. He is the one of her friends totally convinced she's guilty at the beginning. But the second he realizes she's innocent, nobody works harder than he does to prove that. That's the interesting thing about Lucifer. He doesn't believe Maze is a better person than she actually is. But he also does not believe the innocent should ever be punished. Chloe seems a little surprised at his turnaround but it really should be no surprise at all.

    Speaking of no Lucifer surprises, the episode really navigated the fact that Chloe doesn't understand what Maze and Lucifer are talking about in the ride home thing very well. I felt her telling Lucifer not to name-call when he said Maze was a demon didn't entirely work, but when she is about to pause the story about how it doesn't make sense for Maze to want to lash out the way she did because Lucifer wouldn't offer her a ride home, I like the subtle way Tom Ellis portrayed that as not registering her confusion at all. He is so focused on Maze in that moment, he doesn't quite get that Chloe is confused. And that's the right move, because if he was, and didn't clear it up, he would be keeping things from her. Someday Chloe will learn to take the weird things Lucifer and Maze say at face value. Until she does that, she will always be confused.

    Isn't it cool how Lucifer's wings can pop out over his clothes?

    The next week previews (or 3 weeks from tonight previews) hint that Pierce is even worse than we can possibly imagine. I can't wait. ****.
     
  13. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer "The Angel Of San Bernardino"

    I can't really give a specific reason why I didn't like that. I just didn't. Let's talk about the good and bad things.

    Good things:

    Tom Ellis spinning out of control. His performance was great, especially him decking Pierce for hurting Chloe. The sleeplessness starts off in a funny place and winds up terrifying.

    It is interesting to me that Charlotte immediately recognizes had bad she is for relapsing upon believing she got a free pass. She thinks she deserves Hell for that. My question is: Is she wrong? I'm not sure she is.

    I loved Lucifer being obsessed with Bones and recognizing the actor from it and confusing it with the real case.

    Bad things:

    I am never going to forgive Maze. Ever.

    I don't think Chloe actually loves Pierce. She is trying to hurt Lucifer and make him jealous. The fact that it's working makes me angrier at her.

    The idea of Chloe and Marcus having sex at work, and Dan and Charlotte having sex in a coatroom is totally gross. Work sex and public sex is absolutely nasty. And I don't care who knows I think that.

    Ella is super annoying per usual.

    There were some good things. But I didn't like them enough to make up for the bad things. **.
     
  14. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer "Anything Pierce Can Do I Can Do Better"

    Just the fact that Chloe did not immediately accept Pierce's sincere apology tells me she is insufferable. She makes everything as hard as possible for everyone. She wants everyone who knows her to go through an insane amount of drama just because she is so insecure. I hate the character so much, and hate that three guys on the show are tripping themselves over this hot mess.

    Honestly, I would have been offended by the car from Lucifer too, but the fact that she didn't accept it anyways tells me she is just trying to goad him. Unlike Pierce, he deserves it. But what is the good in turning that down? He can obviously afford it. And it might teach him some manners in the long run. No, Chloe idiotically believes she is George Costanza and has "hand" by turning down the car. She is a moron.

    But honestly, what really gets me is how much Lucifer actually DOES suck. She should not hold the high ground to anyone with her constant snits, but Lucifer is just the worst. When she genuinely cries when he says he did all this to show up Pierce, I didn't TRULY understand why. Lucifer doing that, and saying that with such an utter lack of self-awareness means that he is not a man worth crying over. And yes, Linda, you should have said something. Your uncharacteristically amazing advice at the end was far too little, too late.

    Does this show actually think there is a Universe in which people would watch a televised ballerina competition? This is one of those annoying 2010's shows that takes every modern trend it can think of, and adds it to every episode to make the show seem edgy and relevant. But there really is no edgy and relevant side to ballet. How does this show not know this?

    I love that Amenadiel is on-board Mission: Chluficer immediately. I love that because Lucifer is thinking it is some grand battle between good and evil, and Heaven and Hell, and Amenadiel just wants to hook a brother up.

    I think Charlotte is thinking about the mission all wrong if she thinks it will put her in God's favor. Her not actually expecting that, or immediately going there, would be the thing that would impress Him.

    But she's right that if they ARE on a divine mission, the law is for suckers. You'd figure Amenadiel would have realized this long before now.

    When the suspect says you can't help who you fall in love with, and Chloe and Lucifer give each other a meaningful and wistful look, I realized this show is just the worst. Kill me now. I don't even have a mark or anything. Just make it quick. Even worse is the show clumsily giving Lucifer and the killer identical romantic motivations. There are several masterful plot twists of this nature that feel natural and give various shows that do them symmetry. This was hamfisted and clumsy. The show thinks it is clever, but it's actually stupid for doing so.

    I love that Chloe is worried that Lucifer broke into the suspect's apartment, but no, he just charmed the nice neighbor with the key into letting him in. This is the version of Lucifer I actually like. Where's he been?

    Maze is trying to get back in Chloe and Trixie's good graces? Literally in her previous scene she was planning on framing Lucifer for Pierce's murder to ruin his and Chloe's lives. Why should I be rooting for her again?

    I think I've figured out the season finale. Maze DOES kill Pierce and frame Lucifer, and Lucifer in jail is the cliffhanger. The season premiere is Lucifer having taken over the joint and extorted favors from all of his new cellmates. Which assumes the show gets renewed. Which is not a sure thing. But that's my theory. Just the fact that they laid out the plan so clearly means they are probably going to do something with it. It also seems likely to me that Tom Welling would have signed onto the show in the first place under the understanding that it was a "one and done" season. That's my prediction.

    The characters and writing on this show routinely have me tearing out my hair in frustration. A bad week, to be sure. *.
     
  15. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer "Eenie Meenie Miney Me"

    This episode didn't wow me. I'm sort of learning that an average "just good enough" episode of Lucifer isn't actually quite good enough.

    I WILL say this: This episode reminded me of my exact objections to love triangles in fiction. This is exactly why I never use them in my writing. Pierce and Chloe were never going to get married. Never. Not for a second. Pierce came along as a potential romantic obstacle simply to drive 'shippers nuts. That is his only function. I am supposed to hate the character because he's getting in the way of Lucifer and Chloe.

    But I don't want to do that. I shouldn't HAVE to do that. "Wrecking my 'ship" should never be a actual reason to hate a character. If I hate (or wind up loving) Pierce, I should be allowed to do that on the character's own merits. But shows like Lucifer don't actually care about their love triangle characters. And that's not fair to characters, it's not fair to the audience, and it's not fair for the new actor who enters the show and has to deal with fan hate for no good reason. I could basically level this exact complaint at any other show on the air, but Lucifer is the one that chose to do it last night, so it's the current one to get my ire.

    So yeah, this episode underwhelmed me. **1/2.
     
  16. Road to Gotham

    Road to Gotham Well-Known Member

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    I was amuse to see Maze decked out as a 50's housewife. :p
     
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  17. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer "Quintessential Deckerstar"

    What an amazing ending. Amenadiel gets the wings back, and flies Charlotte to Heaven. Perfect. This is not a show known for killing off its series regulars. I'm glad that when they did it, they took the time to do it right.

    It's interesting where we've reached the point where is it acceptable to smoke pot on network television, but not tobacco.

    I think Lucifer is being far too close-minded about Amenadiel's wild theories. Yeah, he's spitballing, but he's asking the right questions, which Lucifer would be doing if he was smart. Amenadiel could still be wrong about this specific thing. The ending WAS ambiguous to that as far as I'm concerned. But it's precisely the fact that he's always asking the big questions which is why he will probably hit upon the right answer before anybody else does.

    Amenadiel being so philosophical is why Maze spared him. Him being kind saved his life. And probably Charlotte's soul, which is what she wanted more than anything.

    Pierce's plan makes no sense. He wants his mark back? What on Earth for? This is the crap that TV does that I hate. It makes villains do a complete 180 in their evil plans and motivations, and I'm just supposed to go along with it, and pretend like it makes sense when it doesn't at all. I don't do that anymore. That was this show failing at its storytelling.

    Chloe says the reason she said yes to Pierce's proposal and then said no both times was Lucifer. You know, I'm a little bit tired of always being right. The show would be better if I weren't. I specifically objected to this love triangle because Chloe was only trying to make Lucifer jealous. I should not have to feel bad for a monster like Cain, especially after he killed Charlotte, but because Chloe says this I do. Love triangles not only create fake drama, they make the show's male and female leads contemptible people.

    I am supposed to consider Pierce the bad guy in the entire season next week. But if Lucifer and Chloe hadn't been using him all year long to make each other jealous, that probably wouldn't have happened. Anyone want to lay odds on whether or not Chloe and Lucifer accept ANY responsibility for their role for this? Not bloody likely.

    When Lucifer tells Chloe he's the Devil, she tells him he isn't. Not to her. Were I Lucifer I would not find that qualifier comforting. Because it means she still doesn't believe him. She still thinks he lying about that one thing. And the "Not to me" idea is nice on paper, but Lucifer telling her he's the Devil is the 100% truth. And if Chloe cannot accept that idea, or even believe this man when he lays it all on the line to tell her the truth sans proof in the desperate hope to be believed by the one person that matters... Well I said Chloe was contemptible. It's not just her treatment of Pierce that says this.

    Ella is surprised Chloe pines for Lucifer? I have said before that Ella is the worst judge of character on the show, and on a show that contains Linda, that is a statement. Her not having any idea about it shows someone that clueless should probably not be trying to piece together murder mysteries in law enforcement.

    Felt so bad for Dan. When he showed up at the end I was "Oh, right." That's another reason Charlotte's death sucked. And why it was amazing at the same time. It was earned. 100% percent. And I think a lot of shows that kill off major characters don't ever bother to do that. They just do it for shock value. And there is no value in doing it for that reason. Every death in fiction makes a statement. Maybe more creators should think long and hard about what statement they are making when they kill off a major character. It has been my experience most shows don't bother doing that. I recognize this show making that specific effort. As bad as I think this season has been, I will not dismiss that they took something that destroys many other shows due to them handling it incompetently, and instead made it amazing, and land perfectly with me. I will rail against Chloe using Pierce, and Pierce's 180 plans sucking all day. But the truth is, I'm glad I saw that episode. It was better than the things I hated. Which is not always true for this show. I will recognize it when it is. ****1/2.
     
    #37 Fone Bone, May 8, 2018
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  18. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Lucifer "A Devil Of My Word"

    The producers were making it sound like this would be the most frustrating cliffhanger ever. I disagree. The episode was awesome. And if there is more down the road, I'd like to see what happens next. But the season was totally wrapped up and none of the characters were left in mortal peril. As far as series ending cliffhangers go, I can live with that.

    And it was a great episode. I love Lucifer using the wings as a weapon. I was disappointed in no Amenadiel, but I'm guessing he was only absent because the producers didn't know this would be the last episode. If they did, they would have included him.

    Chloe learning the truth is interesting, but I'm wondering if this is going to extend to Dan and Ella. Is it possible Lucifer's Devil Face is now stuck without him even realizing it? He didn't seem to know he was wearing it when he turned to Chloe at the end. Was the tension of the premiere going to be that Lucifer is trapped in that state and can't get out of it?

    Loved Lucifer pretty much talking Cain into Hell. I believe he actually would have gone to Heaven had Lucifer not messed with his head in that way. But he deserved it and I loved it.

    I suspected the season ending with Lucifer framed for Pierce's murder, and that didn't happen. Lucifer DID kill him though, and I was right that if the show had returned, Tom Welling would have had a one and done season contract. That's probably why they were able to hire him in the first place.

    Good to have the Maze and Linda thing more or less wrapped up before the series was canceled. I would not forgive Maze as easily as Linda did, but were I Maze I wouldn't have forgiven Linda either, so it's not like either's hands are clean here. I'll accept that resolution.

    I love the moment where Dan starts to attack Lucifer upon learning he knew Pierce was the Sinnerman and didn't tell anyone. Lucifer restrains him to keep up appearances in the precinct, but I also love how unapologetic he was about not filling Chloe in. He has been trying to come clean with Chloe from the start of episode 1, and nobody will believe any of the crazy but true things he says. Why would the idea that Pierce is the Sinnerman, an outright ludicrous notion on paper, be any different? Why should Lucifer keep Chloe in the loop about stuff like that if she thinks he is delusional or only speaks in metaphors? That's an unreasonable expectation on her end.

    It's interesting that Dan still thinks the desire thing is a parlor trick, while Chloe is smart enough to know it works. Maybe she's always believed this stuff more than she thought.

    I hope another network picks the show up. The CW? DC Universe? But I was satisfied with the last episode either way. *****.
     
  19. Otaku-sempai

    Otaku-sempai Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that I could see The CW swooping in to pick up Lucifer with as much as the network already seems to have on its plate for next season, but we will see. It could move to the DC Universe streaming service. I would definitely like the idea of a Constantine/Lucifer crossover (or even Constantine/Lucifer/Swamp Thing if it could be managed).
     
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    #39 Otaku-sempai, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 15, 2018

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