Gargoyles #1 - 12 "Clan Building" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Comic Book Culture' started by Wonder Woman, Jun 21, 2006.

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  1. Antiyonder

    Antiyonder Amalgam Universe Overlord
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    I think what he meant was that if Disney were to publish the comics instead of Slave Labor Graphics, would they still keep Greg on as the writer or hire someone else to write the comic.
     
  2. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 Active Member

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    Surely they learned their lesson the hard way with the Goliath Chronicles: only Greg should write Gargoyles.

    Hasbro has been smart enough to keep Simon Furman working on Transformers. I don't think Disney would make that mistake with Greg. Especially not when Greg Wiseman is the only reason we even give a hoot about the comic.

    Though I wouldn't mind someone else scripting the issues, as long as Greg story edits them.
     
  3. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    Report from SDCC: the Gargoyles licence will not be picked up for another 12 issues by SLG.

    Greg Weisman from the Ask Greg Comment room:

     
  4. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    So there's not even a guarantee that Greg will get to finish the current story lines in individual issues?!? Man, that sucks.

    I hope Boom Studios gets the Gargoyles license and shows SLG how the hell to publish a licensed comic book. Because they totally fumbled the ball on this from day one.
     
  5. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 Active Member

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    What about IDW? They do really well with licensed properties.

    Hell, redesign everyone as anime-style and make a contract with TokyoPop. I'd rather have manga Gargoyles than none at all.:sad:
     
  6. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    So basically, everything was going great, but it's ending because Disney sucks.

    I'll likely be buying the graphic novels for the main story, if only out of principle. Here's hoping this isn't the end.
     
  7. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    I wouldn't put all the blame on SLG. Sure they've made some mistakes but the delays were out of their control, with the artist being late and having to wait perhaps months sometimes for Disney to approve the issues before they can be printed. If Boom, or anyone else, had the license they'd still have the same problems.

    This is a setback but Greg's not giving up and we shouldn't either. Remember the old Gargoyle saying "...it's not over until Greg says it's over." :D
     
  8. Samhaine

    Samhaine Time To Relax

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    Yeah, as if the delays weren't enough to make my interest wain, I think this is it. I think I'm done with this book and will just read the story points on Wikipedia. Let's be honest, it's not like much has happened anyway.
     
  9. GregX

    GregX Active Member

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    * Introduced to the Quarrymen
    * Goliath and Elisa finally declared their love.
    * We learned how the Illuminati works
    * Thailog returned and is prepping a new scheme
    * Delilah grew into the leader of the Clones.
    * Xanatos was shown to still be up to his old tricks
    * Macbeth took Hudson and Lexington to London
    * We met more members of the London Clan
    * Coldsteel and Coyote returned
    * Coldstone and Coldfire returned
    * Hunter gathered a new team together
    * Sevarius broke Fang out of prison
    * Yama was banished from his clan and joined said team.
    * Hunter had a reunion with her brothers

    I think quite a bit has happened.
     
    #309 GregX, Jul 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 1, 2008
  10. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    Just wait for the trades then.

    And for only 8 issues a lot has happened and I'm sure in the next part of the arc even more will happen.
     
  11. Samhaine

    Samhaine Time To Relax

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    I've already pre-ordered or own up through issue 10. I'm not buying a $20 trade for two issues. After 2-3 issues just to retell the first episode of Goliath Chronicles, I was hoping things would start to pick up. Maybe it's been too long since I've seen the episodes. Maybe if I watched them again (not likely, as they never completed the DVD sets - a Gargoyles curse?), I'd find more to like. But most of the "events" seem to just be setting up for stories that will probably never happen now. There was too much of a slow burn for me.
     
  12. GregX

    GregX Active Member

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    So, in other words, you wanted nothing but Third Act?
     
  13. Paul_Cousins

    Paul_Cousins Active Member

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    You make a good point. Maybe Disney wants to publish the Gargoyles comic series directly. The series is one of SLG biggest sellers.
     
  14. Cormak

    Cormak Guest

    There is a clarification statement by Greg up on the Station 8 website pertaining to the comics.

    Very bummed about the wait, but happy to be getting the remaining issues finished.
     
  15. AlgeaX

    AlgeaX Oh, hello?

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    Here's the actual statement for those looking for it...

    http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=795
     
  16. Goodfellow

    Goodfellow Active Member

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    Bogus, but you can read about my rant in the Bad Guys topic.

    So does this mean they are only going to do trades now? I think it is lame we have to double dip, but for later arcs, if it means we'll get the entire story right then and there, I'm for it. Still, $20 for that little pocket sized book is rediculous. I have no problems paying $10 for it, but if I am being charged around $20, I expect the book to be the size of DC's paperbacks.
     
  17. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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  18. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    Normally I wouldn't bump like this, but this doesn't quite deserve its own thread. Just wanted to note that the second Clan Building book finally has a street date for July 29th. Personally, I'm probably going to buy both at once when that book comes out.

    With any luck, sales will go well and we may yet see more Gargoyles stuff. I don't know. But what I've seen said about the comic is enough for me to give it a shot.
     
  19. GregX

    GregX Active Member

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    SLG has started selling "Gargoyles: Clan Building Volume Two" on it's website. Some comic book stores already have it, and it's expected to be widely available next week.

    Now that I already have my copy, I will review the final four issues.

    "Gargoyles, Clan Building Chapter Nine: The Rock of Ages"

    Okay, been sitting on this for over a year, especially after that Radio Play. My thoughts on this one are still kind of jumbled. But I enjoyed it. A lot.

    Xanatos attempts another gambit, but, as we soon discovered, it is pointless to try to possess the Stone of Destiny. Although it was very cool to see him pull a fast one on the Illuminati. That man has guts.

    Great to see Coldstone and Coldfire again. They've both been missed, and the way Coldstone destroyed Coyote was just brutal. Loved it.

    And, here we go, the Illuminati. The biggest surprise had to be the identity of their leader. For years Greg kept telling us that Duval was their leader, and that he is Sir Percival. That is no longer accurate. Peredur fag Ragnal is the leader of the Illuminati, the keeper of the Holy Grail, and Peredur is the Welsh version of Percival. Not to mention the Spirit of Destiny referred to Arthur as Peredur's old master. So, if Duval is no longer Percival, then who is he? I have a very strong notion on that, but I'll keep that to myself for now.

    As for Duval. I'm not quite sure what I was expecting, but it most certainly was not... that. Granted, this particular arc was full of things I was not expecting. But, Duval as a cyborg? Not at all. I mean, I'd read that he was paying a physical price for his use of the Grail and his... sins. But, this is really not at all what I was expecting. So, at least one of his hands is cybernetic, and his left eye is cybernetic. I already want to see this guy's origin story.

    The Stone of Destiny itself... wow... that blows the whole thing wide open. Just one of several thousand vessels for the Spirit of Destiny. And what is the Spirit of Destiny? I think it's something far bigger than any gargoyle, human, or Child of Oberon could comprehend.

    So, what was so special about Fox's shoes? Um... they're really nice shoes? But, gotta give Xanatos credit, a shoe box is useful for a bomb scare.

    And, as in the Radio Play, my favorite part had to be when the Holy Grail and the Stone of Destiny (real, fake, makes no difference) said hello to each other.

    Good story. The art, well, I am so glad that Robby was the colorist, he does good work. Unfortunately, I am still no fan of Hedgecock's pencils. Aw well, the next three issues were visually stunning.

    The one question I do have, which sadly isn't answered in this volume is... just how are the Manhattan Clan going to be able to keep living in Xanatos's castle? While Hudson and Lexington weren't his targets, they were still placed in harm's way when Xanatos unleashed Coyote 5.0, Coldsteel, and the rest on them. This is not the sort of thing Goliath would or should take likely.

    "Gargoyles, Clan Building Chapter Ten: The Gate"

    And now we enter a story development that many fans love, and quite a few loathe. But, love it or hate it, I think just about everyone has been waiting for this story. So, I'm going to dive right in.

    I think I'll start with the artwork, for once. First off, the art for the three final issues are terrific. But Guler's art in this issue is just stunning. Wow. Robby Bevard's colors were terrific as well.

    So, we open up with a concept many fans thought they were familiar with. Brooklyn is depressed, which he has been throughout "Clan Building" when he comes upon the Phoenix Gate on a rooftop. Angela and Broadway join him, but, the second Brooklyn touches it, the Gate dissolves and a gigantic phoenix explodes out of the Gate and swallows Brooklyn... into the time stream. That double page spread was just gorgeous.

    Brooklyn comes to in Scotland, 997, right in front of King Constantine, Gillecomgain, MaĆ­l Brigti (Gillecomgain's father), and a mysterious sorcerer called Brother Valmont. They give chase briefly, but Brooklyn escapes.

    Let me go off on a tangent for just a moment. I'll admit that I have some suspicions about Brother Valmont. Especially having just read "The Rock of Ages." I'm not going to get too specific right now. But, he's looking like an interesting antagonist in this story.

    Meanwhile, Mary and Finella (whom we have not seen since "Avalon Part One" (or "Bash" if you're counting that)) are still fugitives. Constantine has charged them with theft, treason, kidnapping Princess Katharine, and the murder of King Kenneth II. I'm glad to see two years of a crown on his head has given Constantine the proper sense of nobility and justice... /sarcasm.

    Anyway, these two women are attacked by townspeople and saved by Brooklyn, who explains to them that he needs to get to Wyvern so he can hopefully use Goliath's half of the Phoenix Gate.

    As this happens, Kenneth III and Findlaech (Macbeth's father) meet with Maol Chalvim to prepare for war with Constantine. But there is a dilemma, Constantine's forces outnumber them five to one. Their only hope, according to Kenneth III is to ally with the gargoyles as their fathers did when they overthrew King Cullen back in 971.

    Else where, Constantine and his troops stumble upon a cell of scattered gargoyles, and destroy them. Gillecomgain does so with a passion... and he's not even the Hunter yet!

    As Brooklyn, Mary and Finella, Brooklyn realizes his own dilemma. If he wants to return home, he'll need both halves of the Gate. One half is held by Goliath's statue. The other, by the one person Brooklyn hates more than anyone else... Demona.

    And may I add, that full page, money shot of Demona is awesome.

    Overall, awesome. Just, awesome. I'm a sucker for medieval history, especially Scottish history. I loved it when "Gargoyles" used actual historical figures, and this issue is full of them.

    To be continued.

    "Gargoyles, Clan Building Chapter Eleven: Tyrants"

    We're near the end of the road. Brooklyn, Mary and Finella approach the ruins of Castle Wyvern. Brooklyn determined to somehow get the Phoenix Gate so he can help Mary and Finella protect the Grimorum Arcanorum from King Constantine. I neglected to point out in my previous review that Mary and Finella's horse is named 'Magus.' Cute.

    Meanwhile, at Edinburgh Castle... Constantine stands in front of a mirror as he shaves his head bald. For those of you history buffs out there who noted that historically, Constantine III was known as "Constantine the Bald," well, here we are. The sequence itself is creepy, as is Constantine's interest in Gillecomgain... but I just finished reading a book on Alexander the Great, so maybe I'm just projecting. But there seems to be a borderline paternal/sexual interest in the boy coming from Constantine. Even Gilly's father, Mael Brigti seems creeped out by it. Brother Valmont doesn't care... and it's obvious to me that he holds no real loyalty to Constantine, obviously he's someone to watch.

    We cut back to Castle Wyvern where Brooklyn finds the whole situation as freaky as I find Constantine's seeming man/boy interest in Gillecomgain. Of course, I am amused at how he can't keep his beak shut... Mary's reaction to Tom being "married" is priceless. As for Brook, sadly, Goliath's half of the Phoenix Gate is unavailable to him. And hooray for the first canon mention of the modesty spell.

    Speaking of canon mentions... the Wind Ceremony... Demona's clan wants to hold one for their shattered comrades. But Demona herself has no interest, as usual, she wants revenge on those who did it. Obviously, she is one of the tyrants referenced in the title.

    Mary and Finella arrive with Brooklyn at the Grim's camp. BTW, I love that Kenneth III is called 'the Grim' when he is anything but. His cousin, Maol Chalvim on the other hand. Well, understandably, he doesn't trust Finella. But, as Kenneth pointed out, they need all the help they can get.

    And being that they need all the help they can get, Brooklyn seeks out the one person he hates more than any in the world. Demona.

    "Chill, Brook. Get a grip. Remember, this is Demona Classic. Tenth century and... ... and still the traitor who caused the Wyvern Massacre!!"

    Loved that line. Also loved Brooklyn needling her about surviving the massacre and the sleep spell. I've got to say, this adds a whole new layer to their interaction in "Temptation."

    So, the Grim's armies are amassing, and outnumbered. Brooklyn may or may not have gotten Demona to agree to help. Considering her hatred for humans, well, good luck, Brook.

    Meanwhile, at Rathveramoen, a messenger from the Grim's army arrives to deliver a message to Constantine that the two armies will do battle at sunset, and what happens next? While Constantine's face is obscured by another mirror, he says...

    "What an excellent message. What an excellent messenger. Kill him."

    Whoa... um.... Constantine, meet me at Camera Three.

    ::Turns to Camera Three::

    Look your royal baldness, there are some things you just don't do. You don't put anchovies on a pizza, you don't re-make Alfred Hitchcock movies, and you don't kill messengers. I mean, come on, messengers have tedious jobs anyway. They are so hard to come by anyway. I mean, what's the point? You're just being a jerk! And why are you hiding behind that mirror anyway....

    Oh... um... that's some pretty interesting war paint you've got going there. Actually, you look pretty scary your baldness... um, I'm sorry, I mean, your highness.

    Um, do you want that anchovy pizza after all? I hear Michael Bay is re-making "The Birds". I can get you tickets to the premiere at Mann's Chinese Theatre. And hey, I'm sure that messenger sold poison milk to school children... heh heh heh.... please don't kill me.

    ::Turns away from Camera Three::

    Yes, Constantine has painted his hairless head black, and painted the scars of Gillecomgain on the front and back, along with a creepy pair of eyes on the back of his skull. That's really creepy. More to the point, the big revelation of the issue. Constantine was the first Hunter! Gillecomgain's scars inspired Constantine's look. That makes their relationship even creepier.

    And, as promised, at sunset, the two armies meet. And Brooklyn arrives with Demona and her new clan. Smooth sailing from here on out, right?

    Nope... Brother Valmont uses magical arrows to kill Mary and Finella's guards, and seized the Grimorum, and promises to kill Constantine and bring Scotland to it's knees. At that moment, Demona tells her second in command that once Constantine is dead, she will destroy the Grim's armies as well, and use the Grimorum to bring Scotland to it's knees.

    Now that's the Demona I know and love!

    Loved David Hutchinson's pencils, loved Robby's colors. Great looking issue.

    "Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night."

    To be concluded...

    "Gargoyles, Clan Building Chapter Twelve: Phoenix"

    Okay, first of all, that cover. I really don't like that cover. It's well drawn, well colored, and it certainly gets the point across. But, a "Star Wars" joke? Really? It'd be funnier and I might like it more if we haven't seen several hundred thousand of them. Everyone makes "Star Wars" jokes, and quite frankly, they were played well before Kevin Smith started doing it. But, aw well, I understand I'm in the minority and people enjoy them. But... I personally could do without them. Still, a beautiful cover on its own merits.

    Okay, now, with that, my only real gripe out of the way, let's jump into the story.

    That art is terrific. A little too manga-esque in some panels, but I like it. Nice, detailed, but still evoking the series.

    The battle itself is brutal. I always loved the flashbacks in "City of Stone" and "Avalon Part One." As I said in my previous review, I'm a sucker for this kind of stuff. So, this entire three-parter has been a real geekgasm.

    Brooklyn and Demona's interactions are fun to watch. Demona is just as bitter as she was in the "City of Stone" flashbacks, but here she seems a lot more power hungry. Whereas in "City of Stone" she seemed more content to just survive. Of course, she never had the Grimorum in her, or close to being in her grasp in "City of Stone."

    Speaking of Demona, it is so good to see her again. Okay, we had glimpses of her in "Invitation Only" and "Estranged." But, out of all the things I've been waiting for since these comics were first announced, she was at the top of my list. I read her, and it's just her. I can hear Marina Sirtis' voice in every line of dialogue. She is brutal, violent, power hungry, passionate, and cold. This is Demona, and I haven't seen her since 1996. How I've missed her. Okay, technically this is, as Brooklyn said, Demona Classic and not Modern Demona. But still, it's great.

    As the battle goes on, Kenneth III's young son, Bodhe, cowers in the brush. I see some things never change. Come on, Bodhe, this is the Dark Ages. Many younger than you are now have faced much worse. I'd say grow a pair, but I know your future.

    Speaking of futures, Gillecomgain at fifteen is just as merciless as he'll be as an adult. Gleefully trying to kill the young Bodhe on Constantine's orders. "Tonight is the Hunter's Moon! Be a hunter for your king!" Heh heh heh... so, Gillecomgain's scars inspired Constantine, and Constantine inspired Gillecomgain. They're both so twisted... I love it.

    And Findlaech points out to Mail Brigti what we've been seeing all along. Gillecomgain is no longer his son. And now we also learn that Findlaech and Brigti are half-brothers, which would make Gillecomgain Macbeth's cousin. That also adds a whole new layer to their dynamic. I read that Gillecomgain and Macbeth were cousins, but I didn't think this was the case in the Gargoyles Universe. Glad to see that worked in.

    And as the battle proceeds, we get one of the coolest sequences we've ever seen in "Gargoyles"... comic or show. Brother Valmont uses the Grimorum to rain magical, fiery arrows from the sky. "Rain of Death" and he's not kidding. Demona's Second's mate is killed. Countless soldiers are killed. Mail Brigti is killed. Even Magus the horse is killed... that bastard. It comes to an end when Brooklyn takes the Grimorum from Valmont... and Valmont's hand as well. Ouch.

    Hmm, let's see here. Brother Valmont is bald, wears green, has a French surname, clearly has no loyalty to Constantine or anyone else in this battle, and now he has no hand. Didn't we meet a bald guy who wears green, has a French surname, and a cybernetic hand in "The Rock of Ages"? And that's all I'm going to say about that.

    Demona grabs the Grimorum and is finally able to put a stop to Valmont's Rain of Death. The battle is over. Gillecomgain blames Findlaech for his father's death... but Findlaech spares Gilly. Famous last words there, Findlaech

    Constantine and Kenneth III's duel finally comes to an end. Kenneth declaring that if he falls, Maol Chalvim will rise to take his place... that just amused the hell out of me, probably more than it even amused Constantine. "Yes, such is his ambition." Constantine understands Maol Chalvim far better than Kenneth III does. The two men are a lot more alike than Kenneth will realize until it's too late. God, I love Scottish history.

    But, once Constantine threatens Bodhe one time too many, Kenneth III ends the duel... permanently. And so ends the short reign of Constantine the Bald. May his soul burn in the deepest level of Hell. Amen.

    With the battle over, the phoenix once again appears. Brooklyn knows Demona well enough to know that he can't just let her keep the Grimorum. I love the little gambit he plays. "I need your half of the Gate to try to control it, here, let me hold the book for you."

    And while Mary and Finella beg Brooklyn to take them with him, we cut back to 1997.

    Brooklyn disappeared forty seconds ago, leaving a worried Angela and Broadway. But suddenly he returns, and he's not alone.

    Back at the castle, Goliath is greeted by Lexington and Broadway, who have returned from London, bringing with them Coldstone and Coldfire, who have finally come to rejoin the clan. While Angela and Broadway call them to the Great Hall to meet Brooklyn and his new companions.

    Oh, I'm sorry, did I say companions? We meet Brooklyn's mate, Katana; their son, Nashville (or Gnash for short); their beast, Fu-Dog; and their egg. Brooklyn himself is now older. Turns out he's been time traveling for forty years (which would make him the gargoyle equivalent of twenty years older. He's wearing armor similar to what he wore in "Future Tense" and is armed to the teeth with two guns, the broadsword he acquired in Scotland, and a katana. Oh, and he's lost his left eye, and is sporting an eye-patch.

    Is Brooklyn a big Nick Fury fan? ;)

    As the gargoyles celebrate, and meet and greet. Elisa arrives to inform everyone that Jackal busted Wolf and Hyena out of Rikers and they're on a rampage in Times Square. So, the gargoyles decide to go kick their asses.

    And in Goliath's final thought monologue, we get the double meaning of the title. The Manhattan Clan is rising again. Once a shattered clan of six, their numbers have doubled.

    "Clan Building" has concluded. But, some things never end. One way or another, they'll be back.

    Now, to comment on a few things. I loved Katana's design. Nice to finally see a beaked female. I wish we had gotten one line of dialogue from her, but you can't have everything. My friend, Robby Bevard, the colorist, told me that he had the honor of designing her. Now, I knew Robby back when he was just a fan artist drawing for "Gargoyles" fanfiction. So, this is definitely a dream come true for him. He got to design the one character who everyone has been waiting twelve years to see.

    So, let's see, the Manhattan Clan now consists of: Goliath, Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Hudson, Angela, Katana, Nashville, Coldstone, Coldfire, Bronx, Fu-Dog, and Elisa Maza (yes, I count her). That's a pretty big cast. But, as Greg has often demonstrated, if anyone can balance casts of thousands, he's the guy.

    Now, there's a lot of things to wonder. What will happen next for starters?

    What is Thailog up to with their DNA?
    What is Demona currently up to, and when will she strike?
    Are Wolf, Jackal and Hyena a match for all these gargoyles? I think they'll need another upgrade ;)
    Will there be any fallout with the gargoyles and Xanatos after what happened in London?
    What will Talon and Maggie's baby be?

    These and so many other questions may not be answered for a while, but we have things to look forward to should "Gargoyles" get another shot one day, and I sincerely hope it does.

    But, in the mean time, we have the graphic novel for "Gargoyles: Bad Guys" with two issues of new material to look forward to soon. I can't wait.

    Welcome to Scottish royal history, where claiming the crown by the sword is pretty much the norm.
     
    #319 GregX, Aug 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2009
  20. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    I decided it was time to own a TPB besides Watchmen and DC: New Frontier so I took the plunge and ordered both books from Amazon for $26 total, which is a crazy good deal. Hint hint. They say it may take 2-3 weeks to ship volume 2, but I have a feeling it won't take that long.

    It's tempting to spoil myself on the unreleased material, but I won't.
     

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