"G.I. Joe" General Comic Book Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Comic Book Culture' started by Ed Liu, Oct 6, 2005.

  1. spidl

    spidl Active Member

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    I am fairly certain Duke is the newest edition to the team. While the team is still new I assumed that Stalker, Scarlet, and Roadblock were all on the team before Duke thus more secure in their loyalties.

    The early issues feel like the cartoon, by the sheer amount of people involved on the team plus all the vehicles. The comic never got as big as was shown in the first couple of issues.

    The first story arc is almost a plot for plot remake of issue 3 from the first series.
     
  2. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Frog of Thunder
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    It's possible, but I didn't get that sense from the Origins TPB. They make a point of showing that Stalker had been talking with Hawk to get the team together, and even he was going to have to go through selection. It seemed like they really were going to be assembling the entire team from the ground up. Of course, Scarlett could be lying and going through selection a second time just to see how the other guys react, but I haven't seen any solid indication that this is the case just from the first TPB.

    Speaking of which, what's the story with the Roadblock vs. Heavy Duty thing? They used Heavy Duty in the live-action movie, too, but it's Roadblock in things like G.I. Joe: Resolute. Heavy Duty was really after my time as a Joe fan the first time around, but he seems to be the same character and the same schtick with a different name.
     
  3. spidl

    spidl Active Member

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    Hmm, maybe the problem is the trade does not collect the story in issue 0 which covers how Hawk approached Duke to join the team.

    I think the Roadblock thing has something to do with a trademark issue of some sort. I agree it is really dumb.
     
  4. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 Active Member

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    What? Duke and Roadblock joined the team at the same time, making their first appearance together (shooting down a Cobra Rattler at General Flagg's funeral in issue #22).
     
  5. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Frog of Thunder
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    It's a totally new continuity in the IDW books (vs. Devil's Due, which was ostensibly a continuation of the original Marvel series). Larry Hama is writing the new Origins series and it's about as pure of an update for modern eras and an adult audience as you'll get, I think (arguably even better than G.I. Joe: Resolute).

    The first Origins TPB also does not include anything from the #0 issue, which seems like the source of my confusion. Why IDW left it out when they included the short mission in the main TPB is a mystery to me, but maybe we'll see it reprinted somewhere else someday.
     
  6. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 Active Member

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    Ah, my bad. I thought y'all were talking about Marvel/Devils Due.

    I know about the new series, but I haven't read any of it yet. Pharmacy technician training has eaten all my money, but when I get my CPhT certification and a new job, I'll pick up on reading GI Joe again. :sweat:
     
  7. Antiyonder

    Antiyonder Amalgam Universe Overlord
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  8. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Frog of Thunder
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    Reviving this thread again for a few reasons, first being the news at C2E2 that Larry Hama is returning to a G.I. Joe series with issue #156 -- picking up right where the Marvel series left off all those years ago. I'm pretty split on this news. On the one hand, Larry Hama getting regular work is a Good Thing in my book, especially on something Joe related. On the other hand, if you wanted to come up with a short list of unnecessary revivals of classic (to me, at least) comic books and characters, reviving the Marvel G.I. Joe series would have to be on there (along with the return of Hal Jordan and Barry Allen and...oh...uh, never mind :p). There's also the question of brand dilution, but I suppose if IDW can sustain multiple Transformers comics with different continuities at the same time, they can do it with Joe as well. In any event, I was MUCH happier with Hama revisiting/revising/re-visioning the team like he did for G.I. Joe: Origins, and would have preferred that he kept doing stuff like that.

    Which is the other reason for reviving this thread: the fact that I finally got through the next 2 IDW Joe TPBs for Origins and the main series and I ended up kind of swapping places on them. I loved Origins Vol. 1 and liked the main series vol. 1, but Origins vol. 2 seemed kind of all over the place (partially by intent) while Joe vol. 2 seemed more focused and started making things a LOT more interesting. Part of it is probably because there's a few one-shots in the new Origins TPB that aren't written by Larry Hama; if I ran the zoo, I'd have moved those to the back of the book because they seem more like fill-ins and backup stories that just interrupt the narrative Hama had going throughout vol. 1. Part of it might also be the way the Mainframe story is spread over the two TPBs -- it seems like you're expected to know the story from Origins to follow the plot thread in the main series, but there's enough stuff in the Origins story that doesn't make a lot of sense on first read until after you've read the Mainframe stuff in the main series.

    I suppose the comic is also following current Hasbro dictates and turning Cover Girl into a blonde just like she was in the live-action movie. Not as crazy about that, but I suppose her getting a more prominent role on the team and a more visible personality is a fair trade.

    So, Joe fans: G.I. Joe: Cobra worth getting or not? I like Christos Gage's stuff in general, but I also have to say that I'm not a huge fan of spreading out the same story over so many books. I also think the mystique around Cobra is one of the most interesting things about them in the new series so far, and am not sure I want to spoil the surprises.
     
  9. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 Active Member

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    So I guess this will eliminate the Devil's Due series from continuity? Or is it going to be set in 1994 and predate the DDP series? Please God, don't let this be subjected to more "sliding timeline" crap like what DDP did. If he is continuing the Marvel series, it should be set in 1994 which both Marvel and DDP agree is the year GI Joe disbanded. If it's set in 2010, I am not buying it. I HATE SLIDING TIMELINES.

    Now THERE is a Marvel continuity they can revisit anytime, IMO. Transformers G2 was way too open-ended, and when they reprint G2 (along with the GI Joe issues that connect to it) a whole new audience will be chomping at the bit to know how it ends. Even if it's just a single TPB volume, I would love for Simon Furman to close the book on G2 and maybe lay some groundwork for Beast Wars.

    Hmm, IDK. I thought he was a little over the hill in that series.


    She was blonde in "The MASS Device", you know. :sweat:

    But they seem to be doing quite a lot of movie-verse references, like with General Hawk resembling his movie actor and Heavy Duty replacing Roadblock in the lineup.

    I have the TPB of GI Joe: Cobra, and I was disappointed in it. Maybe it was because of all the hype, IDK. But it wasn't the best graphic novel of the year by any stretch, and it didn't trump the classic GI Joe reprints as IDW's best output in 2009.

    Overall, the whole IDW series has been a flat disappointment for me. It wasn't good enough to buy the individual issues and the trades are kind of ho-hum also. The original series reprints have me enthralled though, and without trying to sound like an old skool hardcore, they are still the best version of GI Joe. Better than the cartoon, the live-action, DDP or IDW.

    Although Vol. 6 and 7 show a significant drop in visual quality. They look like they've been scanned from the printed comic instead of the original pages, and the lines are broken and pixelated. Vol. 7 has ridiculous typos all over the place, and the cover art is hideous and doesn't match the tone and feel of the stories at all. But I don't buy the volumes for their cover, I buy them to finally own the entire series and I'm very happy with the content.

    Though will they ever reprint the GI Joe Annuals? I wanna know how Snake Eyes escaped from the Cobra prison after his capture in Volume 6. I also want the GI Joe Special Missions and European Missions (Action Force). I wonder if IDW will ever put any of that out?
     
  10. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Frog of Thunder
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    I don't think it's going to pick up IMMEDIATELY after the Marvel series ended, although it's hard to tell from the wording in the article. If nothing else, the cover image to #156 would indicate that SOMETHING big has changed between the end of the Marvel series and the start of this new one.

    I also think you're still way too hung up on forcing everything into continuity, especially the parts that don't fit. It also seems to me that the Marvel G.I. Joe series was already subject to a sliding timeline, since if it actually ended in 1994 then that would mean Snake Eyes and Stalker would be in their 40s or 50s if they fought together in Vietnam, depending on how old they were during the origin story in #25-26. They were believable as Vietnam vets still in the active duty military when those comics were published in the early to mid-80's, but not so much by the series' end 10 years later.

    Yeah, yeah, but Snake Eyes also had no gloves in that series, too and I'm not pushing to get that look back either. I always went with "designs based on pre-production toys" for those two and ignored the mistakes. I suppose Cover Girl could have dyed her hair, too.

    Hmmm. I think I'm clearly more impressed with the IDW comics I've read so far. I think Hama's work on Origins was at least as good, if not better, than what he did with the original series while you seemed pretty underwhelmed by it.

    There is a G.I. Joe Special Missions TPB in IDW's June 2010 pre-orders (meaning you can pre-order it now). $20 for issues #1-7, 172 pages total.
     
  11. spidl

    spidl Active Member

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    I thought G.I. Joe: Cobra was great. I would recommend the book to almost anyone especially if you enjoy spy stuff or Gage's work in general.
     
  12. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 Active Member

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    Yeah, though I never judge by covers. They are notoriously misleading, often having nothing whatsoever to do with the story inside.

    Really, I just think the series was correct to end when it did. The Vietnam vets would've been around 38-45 depending on how old they were in the LRRP days, which was early 70s (possibly as late as '75). This wasn't "too" old given that they're part of a secret, special force (and Snake-Eyes was already ineligible for regular duty because of his handicap). But it was the right time to close the book.

    Besides, the last issue was mostly about the Vietnam war, which didn't gel with DDP's contrived "Southeast Asia" explanation. Snake-Eyes and Fred II reported being spit on by hippies when they came home, which probably wouldn't have happened if they were veterans of a small, secret conflict in the late 80s. And it's hard to explain it away as generic hate against the military because no evidence of this hate exists in the "present" day of the GI Joe series. No, the spitters were anti-Vietnam protestors, plain and simple. This makes it historical fiction, IMO. I'd no more slide Storm Shadow out of Vietnam than I'd slide Jonah Hex out of the Civil War.

    But we've had this discussion before. :sweat:

    I'll check it out, though one of my favorite things about GI Joe is the fact that it had an ending. A rushed ending, granted. But an ending nonetheless.

    Perhaps it's the hype, IDK. Maybe it's because I read GI Joe to get big, epic stories with cool vehicles and lots of characters (in other words, a slightly more serious version of the cartoon). Maybe it's my love of old school artwork and hatred of modern styles (this includes the early '90s GI Joe art). Perhaps it's my desire to "experience" the 1980s through the books. I dunno. The original just strikes the "right" cord with me and the others seem like forced attempts.

    Also, the colors in vol. 1 of "Origins" were atrocious! They looked like a bad fan attempt on DeviantArt. At least later work (ie, GI Joe: Cobra) sought to stylize the bland coloring, but origins was too flat, bright, digital and ugly. "Spock: Reflections" was just as bad, which IDW has no excuse whatsoever for because their Transformers work is exquisite.

    Also, I think there is an appeal to the Marvel comics being the "original" version, which fuels my preference for Golden Age Batman and Silver Age Marvel.

    All that said, to answer your original question, "GI Joe: Cobra" is a good series, though a bit too low-key and noir to be what I expect from the GI Joe franchise. But if you like the IDW better, than what I disliked about "GI Joe: Cobra" could be what you love about it. Besides, don't you wanna know the full story of this particular Joe universe? I'll be reading everything IDW puts out eventually, just to get the full story.

    And I don't dislike the series, by any means. I'm still a huge fan of GI Joe, and that includes the DDP and IDW versions. DDP had an awesome ending arc (WWIII) and some other great stuff that I liked a lot, even if they did kill off my favorite Joe.

    Wooot! :D
     
  13. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Frog of Thunder
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    More on the Marvel continuity reboot of G.I. Joe from the Man himself, Larry Hama. Still not sold on the idea, although the injection of some elements from the real world (the rise of private military contractors) intrigues me.

    Also, turns out that Ty "the Guy" Templeton thinks that Larry Hama is the #1 Comics Creator Who Can Kick Your Ass. Absolutely hilarious, if nothing for the entries on Jack Kirby (known for being quite a sparkplug), William Moulton Marston (yes the Wonder Woman creator), and Bill Mauldin (a.k.a., the Grunt's Cartoonist).
     
  14. Toddman

    Toddman Hulk not good with words.

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    Well, whether or not this new series will wipe away the 2001-2008 post-Marvel continuity from the Image/Devil's Due series remains to be seen, but the new Hama series definitely picks up immediately after the events of 1994's Marvel run.

    I would certainly understand if Hama wanted to ignore the DD series, if for no other reason than it would be less of continuity-logistics nightmare. Continuity has sometimes been a stumbling block for Larry in the first Joe series, springing up occasionally to contradict earlier stories he had written himself.

    But isn't that a bit of a slap in the face to the guys at DD however, as Hama provided a few flashback stories (the first story arc of Frontline and the G.I. Joe Declassified mini specifically) along with the "present-day" Storm Shadow series for those guys...?

    And I'm with Wolf Boy2, I think it would be a shame if the new series isn't officially set in 1994-1995.


    Toddman
     
  15. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 Active Member

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    I don't think age is a problem. After all, Snake-Eyes is training Kamakura. I like the idea of him stepping up from main character to Jedi Master. Snake-Eyes, Hawk and Stalker could be higher ups, in more of a planning posistion than as combat grunts. Though Snake-Eyes would be the same age as Robert Downy Jr.'s Sherlock Holmes, and he was plenty spry. I don't think being mid-40s would put a ninja master out to pasture. The Soft Master was way older, much heavier and still kicked Cobra ass.

    Other Joes, like Scarlett, Roadblock, Flint and Lady Jaye and so on, could be much younger, since no Vietnam history was ever mentioned for them.
     
  16. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    GI Joe Origins #15: Snow Job

    I was following avidly the IDW reboot on GI Joe until last year but for some reason I don't remember I felt behind.

    Now I'm keeping up where I left and read GI Origins 15 today.

    I think it was great but I was expecting a little more. I think I would give 8/10.

    Snow Job is one of my favorite characters. I don't know why but I'm drawn to the snow specialists. I find them interesting. I like the snow themed stories as well. I think it's because I live in Brazil, a tropical country who doesn't have snow, expect in some specific regions. Snow themed GI Joes toys were never released over here.

    The art is amazing. I loved the design of Snow Job. The arctic gear, the skis, the sniper rifle. Very modern and realistic. With a touch of cartoon all over it.

    The idea of the plot was very interesting as well: Let's take an arctic expert and put him in a tropical mission. When I saw the cover I've thought of one of those Cobra wacko plans as they were freezing Venezuela over and the Joes needed Snow Job there. I think I was thinking too much about the cartoon.

    Then the parts I didn't like: It was not an origins tale per se. It fitted more in the main line continuity where Scarlett is running missions and Snow Job is already part of the team. I was expecting a story more in the likes of beach head and ripcord.

    The worst part: The story relied too much on Snow Job wandering around Venezuela in white camo. Why on earth, the Venezuelan government didn't lend some clothes to him, so he could blend in and do his work properly? I think it was too goofy. It looked too much like the cartoon or the old comics where the characters where always wearing their toy counterpart uniforms no matter what situation.

    The whole Sniper duel was fine and worked very well. I liked that they preserved this military speciality from the old days of the character.

    I also liked the alternative cover that is a homage of the carded art, only flipped:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    As I stated before: I give it a solid 8/10.
     
  17. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    G.I. Joe Origins #19: Snake Eyes and Timber

    Wow. Just wow.

    I'm slowly reading all those IDW G.I. Joe comics I left behind and I'm starting from the Origins title. Last week I read the Zartan origin which was amazing but now I came across this issue.

    As you can see from my avatar I'm a huge Snake Eyes fan and this issue of Origins doesn't disappoint. Obviously it is highly influenced by the classic G.I. Joe #21 Silent Issue.

    It also has hints of Marvel's G.I. Joe issue #2, where the Russians were trying to beam a fear wave towards USA. In this story, the villains who appears to be Russian are beaming some time of ultra sound signal.

    By the way, those villains were very cool. The guy with the strange googles and the girl. Do you think they are Cobra, or some sort of Russian counterparts of G.I. Joe?

    The story is perfect. The art. The storyboards. Very cinematic. I loved when the Mil Mi 24 looses its fuel and starts "dying" like it was a wounded animal.

    There's only one thing that I would like to see: Snake Eyes in some sort of White camo, to be more realistic. But it's a minor nitpick. Excellent issue.
     
  18. sparkykandy

    sparkykandy Member

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    While looking through the bargin bin at my local comic book store, I found a couple of Marvel's G.I. Joe comics (issues 43, 68. 69) and decided to pick them up. I'm sure if wasn't for the fact that I was so confused as to what was going on, I would have liked them better. So, my question is, when it came to the Marvel comics, were they all interconnected in some way? (As in there was a bunch of story arcs, and one comic tended to lead into another.) Or are there plenty of stand alone issues too? Or mixture of story arc and stand alone? Or something else, and so on?
     
  19. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Frog of Thunder
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    The Marvel G.I. Joes had longer-running story arcs, but they were always formatted (as all the comics of the time were) so that you could pick up in the middle of one without too much of a penalty, and that you'd get a reasonable chunk of stuff happening in a single issue. There aren't "story arcs" as there are in current-day comics, but there are definite long-running plot threads that will come to a conclusion and set up other plot threads. It's formatted more like an on-going soap-opera than the mega-event/story arc structure that goes on today.

    IDW is doing a pretty good job of collecting all of the Marvel G.I. Joe run, but the way they were written means that they can just put about 10 issues per TPB pretty consistently without breaking a story arc. You can always flip through vol. 1 in your local bookstore and you'll see what I'm talking about.
     
  20. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Frog of Thunder
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    Boy, it's been a while since I babbled on this thread...

    Minor update to the above comments: I read up to the Cobra Civil War in the IDW stories (vol 5 or 6 in the main Joe series), and then gave up because I felt there were diminishing returns for the stories and I didn't feel like tracking the 3 or 4 different titles I'd need to read to understand what was going on. If I wanted to deal with that, I'd go read stuff from DC or Marvel.

    The latest news is that G.I. Joe is getting a soft-reboot, and the main title is getting handed over to Fred Van Lente, a Close Personal Friend of Ed, who is saying a lot of things to get me interested in this article over at USA Today. He's certainly saying enough of the right things that I might jump in for the main title, and the Special Missions title seems like it's the kind of Clancy-esque stuff I liked in the new reboot. The division also means that I think the franchise can more easily manage the conventional vs. spec-ops aspects that the franchise has never quite reconciled since the launch of Real American Heroes in the 80's.
     

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