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Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by GWOtaku, Feb 26, 2015.
Maybe WB knows the TV live action DCU is better than the cinematic one, and they want people invested in the cinematic DCU to the same way they are for the TV DCU. One way of doing that is not having Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman in the TV shows.
Actually, here's an actual productive idea. I think it's apparent we are never ever going to (LEGITIMATELY) see Robin in a live action Batman film again. So, how about we have a TV Batman, but he is partnered with Robin for however long the TV DCU lasts. Find ways that make the TV and Film versions of the characters completely different from each other so there is no confusion, and be justified to include them in the TV DCU.
Really annoyed they would be stupid enough to trust Cold AGAIN it got really grating last time.
I'm not sure we will ever see the Trinity on television again. Maybe a teenage Wonder Woman still on the island or something. After the Dark Knight trilogy and Man of Steel, I highly doubt WB will do another tv series with those guys.
Honestly, this is the perfect time for them to utilize characters they've been sitting on for decades outside of animation. We should encourage them to continue going deeper into their catalogue.
I think the DCTVU has been working fine without having to use the Trinity, and in fact have stepped up to the plate and embraced the challenge that comes from not being able to use some of DC's more popular and well-known characters. Sure, this sometimes comes at the expense of making Arrow or Flash come off like Batman or Superman, but for the context of the shows it works quite well .
The only real issue is the embargo's and how they negatively effect the shows .
New set photo revealing some...interesting elements for the series :
Cool. Be interesting to see what becomes of this.
I've been waiting for a hint at the existence of Jay Garrick. I think that would be awesome. Do you guys think they should go all out and acknowledge there was a JSA?
Well, Wildcat was confirmed to have been active in Starling long before Oliver became The Arrow, so there's precedent for a past, but unknown, age of heroes to have existed before the current generation. Though I think the existence of any Metahumans before Flash and his Rogues Gallery would probably have been noticed by someone .
I think it might be more likely that the DCTVU has their own equivalent of Earth 2 where the JSA are active rather than the traditional DCTVU heroes .
Speaking of Earth 2, I can definitely see the DCTVU bringing in the earth-bound Green Lantern,
even as how that conflicts with all the Hal Jordan teases.
If LoT can make it to a second season, he could be one among others on a rotating roster.
Regarding the Holy Trinity: before Arrow came out, it was stated that Arrow was supposed to be in continuity with the Nolan Batman Trilogy. They've since distanced themselves from that significantly. Various Youtube commentators have said this is because The Dark Knight Raises didn't play ball ... exactly and its box offices numbers made them want to distance themselves. I don't recall if this was ever confirmed, but Arrow seems to acknowledge the idea Batman existed in the same time frame Batman Begins came out in relationship to when Arrow started. I'm highly curious what Guggenheim's current stance on this is though.
If for nothing else, Super Girl, which *IS* in continuity with the Flarrowverse, sets up the idea that Superman has been active for some time. We won't get a feel for this until they start giving us some dates in Super Girl. Titans has been discussed as maybe being in continuity with the Flarrowverse and Nightwing seems to be the lead for that series. This would help setup the idea that Batman and Superman are around regardless of the position of the Nolan Batmans in relationship to the Flarrowverse. Heck, how much speculation spun around that Batgirl was going to show up during season 2 of Arrow. It feels like that simply got back burnered though.
All this being said, I feel like Superman and Batman *HAVE* to show up at some point, in some capacity. I don't expect their presence to be prolonged as I feel like TPTB won't want to overshadow the heroes they are trying really hard to develop, but there's some serious underlining laid to show they exist.
Personally, however, with all the easter eggs laid out, I feel like Green Lantern will be on the small screen before Superman or Batman. I almost feel like by next season, we're going to at least get some more direct evidence Superman and Batman are active.
Finally, someone is catching my drift with this... but wait? What about Wonder Woman?
There were plans for a new Wonder Woman origin story-style show called Amazon in the works, but that was before they were told to flush those plans down the toilet. At least, that is my guess. I mean, Suicide Squad movie, Arrow's Suicide Squad can't be used anymore, for example. So, a Wonder Woman movie should then mean no Wonder Woman show, right? Of course, Barry Allen was able to show up in Arrow in time for them to justify moving forward with a Flash spinoff show before any movie plans could put a stop to that.
Also, I'm fairly certain Supergirl is NOT in the "Flarrowverse." Until we see actual references to either Supergirl or Superman in that universe, and vice versa (I'd want Flash and Arrow references in Supergirl, too), I don't want to link Supergirl to that continuity yet. I feel the same way with Titans. Let's say, Colton Haynes returns as Roy Harper and we have a Wally West come off from The Flash and both appear in Titans, I'm willing to say that they HAVE to be in the same continuity. Or if Nightwing appeared in Arrow. Either or (although, I'm still hoping we could get Agent Grayson to show up and mess up HIVE and maybe ARGUS too, just for funsies). At this point, I feel Constantine is more likely to be in the same universe as Arrow than Supergirl (especially with all the crossover talk with Stephen Amell in Constantine).
Also, Jay Garrick and Alan Scott? I'd watch that. I want an Earth-2 series now, lol!
P.S. Lighthammer, "The Flarrowverse" is an awesome name! I hope you don't mind if I start using it myself...
I think with this series, it will be more to conceiveable to see a crossover with Supergirl in the future. CBS has gone on record to deny it exists as the CW series', but Berlanti is EP of all of them and the idea of it is hard to resist. I say almost inevitable.
Funny, Calista Flockhart was in Ally McBeal (FOX) which infamously crossed over with The Practice (ABC). I bring this up cause it could potentially explain alot about universes properly. The possible TNT Titans series could potentially cause more problems than Supergirl I think.
RE: Supergirl part of the Flarrow universe, you can watch the below video to get the inside track on that.
Charlie (the host of the channel) is on top of Guggenheim's, Amell's and others.
Supergirl specifically has a part of the contact built in to allow crossovers, though we probably won't see any of this during the first season.
I think, for now, we should take Supergirl and the Flarrowverse/DCTVU as being their own separate entities despite sharing much of the same creative teams. Superman appears to have been heavily active in the world of Supergirl and before Kara debuted, but is completely absent in both Flash and Arrow, so unless Supergirl takes place several years into the DCTVU where Superman has shown up, I think we should just look at it as another continuity .
Same with Titans, whose premise seems to acknowledge Dick having been a former Robin under Batman, with Batman being a non-entity in Flash and Arrow despite some of his villains appearing in Arrow and an acknowledgement of a Wayne and Queen Industries merger in the future in Flash. Maybe David Mazouz, young Bruce Wayne on Gotham, will eventually be seen as the general Bruce Wayne/Batman for all the live-action DC TV shows ?
Then you throw in the embargo's which makes characters in the movies off-limits to the shows (with Flash as the only exception right now), and I'm not expecting we'll see the Trinity as a heavy presence in the live-action shows for quite some time...Supergirl's acknowledgement of Supes and the young Bruce Wayne in Gotham aside.
That said, I do think we'll eventually see a crossover in the possible form of dimension traveling where either Flash, Arrow, or Supergirl eventually travels to another dimension to crossover on another show .
Where Titan's concerned, the last I heard they wanted to make the series viably inside the Flarrow Universe but likely no direct cross overs.
I recall hearing that Titans was either going to be filmed in SoCal or Atlanta, which, if true, would make crossovers nearly impossible. Supergirl is at least being filmed in Vancouver too.
If its any consolation, I do know there are two truths floating around from Guggenheim on the subject matter of Supergirl being in continuity:
#1.) They intend for it to be in continuity.
#2.) They won't exercise cross usage in the continuity through the mid season finale; even at that, probably not till season 2.
The reasons for this might be to reconcile Superman; but Guggenheim has, in the past, suggested that Batman and Superman ARE active in the Flarrow Universe. Though we haven't actually figured out where exactly Starling City or Central City are in the Flarrow universe, they are most certainly on the West Coast. Batman and Superman are TYPICALLY on the East Coast (not always, but often enough). Truthfully, the only reason we know they're on the West Coast is through piecing together easter eggs. The horizon absolutely states it's on the West Coast, but this is one of those things you almost have to allow yourself a sense of disbelief to allow them to explain it away through more 'important facts'; however, it does feel like they're just going with it.
It's a little weird for me though personally. Central City is USUALY more around PA or NY. Suggesting it's more in mid west coast feels so weird.
Personally, I don't want to see Titans. I don't like the lineup I seen them choose, and it's just not something I would want to see on television. In film, it could work but this is years after the DCCU has been established. They at least have a Cyborg. Even still, it's just hard for me to accept a live action Teen Titans. I don't even think the same EPs are producing it, so it just doesn't seem like it's going to happen. Akiva Goldsmith wrote the pilot script, so take that for what it's worth.
On locales, I don't even think about it. I mean, I don't pay attention to that stuff unless it's glaringly out of place. I didn't realize the town in Gremlins is the same set as Back To The Future until a couple years ago.
The very nature of the biggest towns in the DC universe makes them very mutable to where they can be in the current continuity.
In relationship to the Flarrowverse, proximity is a bit of a big deal because it gives us an idea how much bleed over the story could have. Location means a lot, especially when its obvious the city in question has a massive sea front.
As far as actual physical location goes; I often wonder if they forget about this. Central City, for instance, is *NEVER* on the coast like Vancouver is. This was the foil for some stories but causes some oddities in the totality of tradition.
I don't REALLY get bent out of shape when they move these cities, because they've been moved so often between continuities, but it's jarring when they forget or aren't aware of the history.
As it stands right now, we know:
- Starling City is the north most city.
- Central City is south of Starling City and is 300+ miles away
- Coast City is south of Central City and is around 300 miles away (likely down the coast)
As far as fiction goes, this could put all three cities in California; but for me, what feels like it makes the most sense is Starling City is Washington state, Central City is in Oregon (possibly Silicon Valley), and Central City is in Northern California.
Star City has float virtually all over the country, but generally is in the north, so this works for me.
Coast City has jumped back and forth between the coasts, but usually gravitates towards the middle of the US, so this works for me.
However, Central City being on the West Coast --- it's just never that far from Metropolis and to a lesser extent, Gotham. Metropolis drifts back and forth between being Wilmington, DE or Chicago, IL (or around there) depending whos story you're reading. This just feels off to me.
As far as Titan's go, I can't track down enough information to know how I feel about it. The only constant appears to be Nightwing is going to be in it. Beyond that, the cast hasn't been locked down publicly yet. There's also the rumor Cyborg is going to be in Legends.
I think you're correct about Starling being in Washington or at least Oregon. Long Bow Hunters took place in Seattle, and it wasn't a huge trek for Ollie.
Central City, I never gave thought to. For some reason I want to assume in Arizona, or possibly Sacramento area. Don't know.
Coast City I always assumed San Diego or San Jose. Those are where I know they have alot of aviation divisions.
As for Bats and Supes, the creators always meant for Bats to be in NYC as Gotham. It has since been alluded to Chicago for some reason, maybe the Nolan films are responsible for that since they were shot there. Metropolis has always been Chicago, simply because of Smallville being in such close proximity, and that is farm country. Can't get that with NYC, as much as you'd like to. I'm from NYC, and farm country is far far up north, and not much of it. I've been to Chicago and that is the city in the heart of farm country with Indiana, Michagan, Wisconsin, surrounding it.
Though Gotham is most often thought to be NYC and NYC has gone so far as to take on the nick name, Gotham; Gotham was originally most accurately depicted as being someplace between Trenton, NJ and NYC, somewhere along the border. It was meant to be extremely close to NYC. There are some scenes in Batman TAS that call to this; though even in that series, we never get an exact feel for where it TRULY is.
If you look up Gotham on sites like wikipedia, it will describe Gotham as having been depicted as everyplace from NYC to LA to Tokyo and back. Batman Beyond's Gotham, while presumed "not moved" from Batman TAS, carries this Tokyo background beat. Heck, you're even right that some continuities had used Chicago as the placement for Gotham, though Chicago is more often considered Metropolis; but fairly Chicago is usually neither.
For me, its often easiest to just consider that 9x out of 10, NYC will be Gotham and Wilmington, DE will be Metropolis; or at least they'll be very close to those locations.
The bigger mystery where these two heroes are concerned is: Where is Smallville? Sometimes it feels like every state that has a lot of farmland is a candidate; though most often its either Kansas or Maryland. I didn't watch Smallville (the series) to see what hints they used, but I do remember one promo putting it close enough to Meterpolis to be able to see it's skyline from a distance. This means in that series, without better knowledge of the story, it almost has to be in Maryland.