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Discussion in 'The DC Comics Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Aug 15, 2017.
Good point but Return of the Joker was awesome.
It was, but that whole movie seemed more natural to me than some of the PG-13 stuff in Batman and Harley Quinn. I don't have a problem with that stuff, it's just more of how it's used.
It's been awhile since I thought about this movie but I think the point was always to make a comedy, not a typical DTV. But I wonder if this movie would have been better received if it was a stand alone with new designs instead of going back to the classic.
I actually think you're 100% right, I bet it would have been, at least a little. Granted, this isn't me saying I dislike the movie, or dislike that it can be considered DCAU, I just think it has some problems. But I digress, that's been covered a few times.
Using the classic designs made the borrowings from "Harlequinade" and other episodes more obvious (and thus emphasized how derivative and pointless the film was), but different designs wouldn't have made weak gags funnier.
That's true in a way, but certain jokes would have seemed less out-of-universe for a lot of people if that movie was its own universe/style, and not being compared to the shows that came before it. It'd be easier to laugh instead of thinking, "...well, y'know, that's kinda odd for <insert character here>" Although I wasn't initially referring to the gags directly, as much as the PG-13 content in general.
It would have taken away a lot of needless distraction and talk about continuity and characters like Harley and Ivy being recast (even though Sorkin had long retired). I think that muddled the initial reception to movie more than anything. I agree with you it wouldn't have necessarily made the weak gags better but it would have been divorced from animation fan nostalgia and judged on its own merit the way the Batgirl prologue in Killing Joke was criticized. Imagine if Killing Joke was done in the Timm style, the negativity for that prologue would have soared.
It may be a bit delayed, but Watchtower Database has finally released our timeline analysis of the movie
Edit: embedded media rather than hyperlinking
A friend of mine pointed me to this tweet from Jim Krieg, and how he only added a few details while Bruce Timm did pretty much everything else. It probably explains why this movie feels disjointed given that the other times Bruce Timm directly wrote something, he was only credited under "story by" and not "screenplay by" or "teleplay by".
I find it weird how people are outraged at the PG13 rating and mature themes. Are you the same people who were teenagers when Mad Love was aired? Or well, any of the Catwoman episodes? 'cause let me tell you I found many of the female characters designs/animation in TAS incredibly erotic. Heck, I introduced my half-brother who is 15 years younger than I am to Batman TAS and the DCAU, and he became such a huge fan of it, he even named his cat Isis after Catwoman's.
I loved this movie far more than anything DC direct to DVD produced in a while... And that's not just because much of the rest is terrible New 52 stuff. (I quite liked Gods & Monsters and Gotham by Gaslight too). But this movie indeed feels like what TAS would have been if the writers and artists would be given free reign. Anyone who has the Batman TAS "Bible" will remember that certain drawing which depicts ALL the things in one pic that they could not do - nudity, swearing, alcohol and tobacco, glass breaking, gunshot wounds, drugs etc... - and I'd not be surprised to know if Bruce Timm smuggled in every one of those things into this movie. The fact the movie remains charming and loveable despite this, unlike the downright ghastlyness of the newest Suicide Squad movie is what makes this a good use of the rating.
And yeah, I too miss Sorkin, but this isn't the first time Harley was voiced by someone else, so I got used to it. Things change, we have to accept that soon enough Mark Hamill will retire or pass away too, and he won't be the Joker again... and finding a replacement for him will be even harder.
Thank god they weren't given free reign at the time
Yeah, this is one of those instances where having too much creative control can backfire. It's good to push boundaries, but it's only effective when you know how to pull back. If I'm being honest, Batman Vs Two Face, despite being in the Adam West continuity, feels more like a Batman: The Animated Series revival film than this movie. At least that movie knew when to be serious and when to be humorous, and much like BTAS, and unlike this movie , it knows how to appeal to children as much as teenagers and adults, unlike this movie trying and failing in appealing directly to BTAS' adult audience.