"Batman and Harley Quinn" Animated Release Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The DC Comics Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Aug 15, 2017.

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Discuss "Batman and Harley Quinn" and leave a rating!

  1. *****

    18.8%
  2. ****1/2

    6.3%
  3. ****

    18.8%
  4. ***1/2

    18.8%
  5. ***

    12.5%
  6. **1/2

    12.5%
  7. **

    0 vote(s)
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  8. *1/2

    6.3%
  9. *

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  10. I've Got a Batman in my Basement

    6.3%
  1. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    There's no sex scene. It's alluded to and there's some innuendo -- part of it was seen in a trailer or clip of Harley telling Nightwing to be good and he might get a cookie.

    Long description if you want. I suppose I don't have to use spoiler tags but whatever:
    The full context is he gets tasked with finding her, they get into a fight, she pricks him with low level Joker toxin and knocks him out. He wakes up, costume still on, tied to her bed. She's discussing aloud with herself what to do with him, because she's been laying low, not communicating with her parole officer, and living in a condemned apartment building. She takes off her Superbabes uniform to change into an official Harley costume so you do see her in her stock white underwear for bit. Then in role reversal of sorts she starts to imply sex and Nightwing gets nervous then she tells him basically, I have something you want, you want something I want' then the cookie line. Then it I think it cuts to Batman doing his part of the investigation elsewhere in the city. He realizes NW hasn't checked in. Cut to him in the hall outside Harley's apartment. He hears what sounds like NW is being tortured, he's about to kick the door in, then the sounds sort of sound sexual. He opens the door. Harley and Nightwing are fully costumed having a tickle fight on the bed. Then a whole thing about Batman getting her to help stop Ivy and Floronic Man. Then Batman gives him the silent treatment. NW retorts with something like a 'like you never fooled around with a super villain before'. During the Batmobile ride, Harley basically gets annoyed with NW and tells him off that something like 'she used him for 20 minutes and she ever gets the urge again she'll get batteries.'
    In my opinion, it was a part of farcical nature of the movie. The Superbabes serves to show how women in the genre are objectified then Harley turns the tables on Nightwing and objectifies him, then figuratively throws him away during the Batmobile drive.

    It never went as far as the Deadshot/Harley scene in Assault on Arkham for example.
     
  2. ABrown

    ABrown Active Member

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    I am still really surprised with how disappointed I was watching this last night. It wasn't even Melissa Rauch that I found disappointing, she wasn't bad. It's as if the movie was a really bad joke, and I didn't get the joke. I think it would've been better if it had all of the fat cut out, and it had just been a 30 minute New Batman Adventures episode back in the late 90's.
     
  3. Otaku-sempai

    Otaku-sempai Well-Known Member

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    Some of the jokes did fall flat to me (the fart jokes in the Batmobile seemed particularly unnecessary and out of place) but that's the nature of humor. There were scenes that were certain to challenge the comfort zones of viewers; and the sequence in the dive bar might have benefited from reducing the karaoke duet by Two-Face's henchmen-twins to a background bit. Even with all that, I liked B&HQ a lot on my initial viewing. We'll see how it holds up.
     
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  4. iammattie

    iammattie Member

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    Picked up the "limited" (60,000 pieces) edition at Best Buy earlier and it came with a 96 page hardback graphic novel with work from multiple artists who had done DCAU work before (Gotham Adventures, junior novels, and Scooby Doo Team Up to name a few.) The book explores the 10 days following Harley "lighting the match" and I feel gives a more down to earth human look to the characters. There are still moments of levity (we see Alfred karaoke "No Rain" by Blind Melon as well as Two Face doing a solo duet of "Don't Go Breaking My Heart" at the henchman hideout) but Bruce reaches out to Ivy in hopes to rehabilitate her in a similar vein to how her bff is on the straight and narrow. We see Bruce put in a recommendation for Harley at her new job (not yet the tv gig). Nightwing revisits Super Babes hung up on Harley. Also a couple cool cameo scenes from Blockbuster, freeze, croc, ventriloquist, scarecrow, someone who looks like a mix between Ubu and Kyodai Ken, and a Cadmus mention. I prefer this story to the story in the movie, but obviously the pay off wouldn't have worked without the precursor.
     
  5. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    Maybe I'm exaggerating just a little, but then again I also might not be when I think it over more - This has to be the biggest disgrace to Batman in 20 years (friendly reminder - what came out exactly 20 years ago?).

    Look. I was amused and laughing when we're supposed to (Batman pointing finger to shut Harley up over and over, Catwoman henchman doing the Bat-tusi behind Batman's back). I have no problem laughing when watching a Batman thing (Batman constantly going "Hmmmm" in Justice League Dark comes to mind). What I do have a problem with is this movie resorting to fart jokes (TWICE) and a Adam West Batman parody sound effects title that says "Ow My Balls!". Am I really to believe that not one single person said "That's stupid." in response to the childish humor during the development of this project? If I suggested "You know, let's have Harley fart in the Batmobile while Batman drives." somewhere on the internet before this movie came into existence, I would overwhelmingly get "That's stupid." replies. And that's putting it very mildly. I KNOW the language would be very colorful and extreme. Or no one would even bother responding to something that could be considered "the stupidest thing I've ever heard."

    We all take and expect Batman to be DARK and SERIOUS. Maybe Batman should be "lightened up" once in awhile. Fart jokes and "Ow My Balls!" is definitely is not the way to go when "lighting up" Batman. Bruce Timm should be ashamed of himself.
     
  6. Dusty

    Dusty Superman.

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    Thank you so much Yojimbo. I appreciate the information. I may give this a rental or something.


    Kallum.
     
  7. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    You're welcome, Dusty.
     
  8. Otaku-sempai

    Otaku-sempai Well-Known Member

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    And maybe some of us take our Batman a bit too seriously. There have been many iterations of Batman over the years, some serious, some less so, and some way over the top. Yes, some of the jokes in this fall flat(ulent) and there are some pacing issues, but that doesn't equate to a huge disgrace. The relationship estabilished between Batman and Batgirl in The Killing Joke movie was far more problematic.

    Do we? If that's the case then it's puzzling that Return of the Caped Crusaders was well-enough received to warrant a sequel, or that Batman: The Brave and the Bold was successful. I understand that much of Batman and Harley Quinn didn't work for you, some of it didn't work for me either. However, I think you put far too much emphasis on a few dicey gags. I would understand your position better if you were taking issue with the fan-service.
     
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  9. SweetShop209

    SweetShop209 Well-Known Member

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    It just occurred to me. Even if I considered this movie a DCAU production, why let it be part of Batman: The Animated Series? Why continue off from that show when Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker already showed that Harley gave up crime? Admittedly, I haven't seen any DCAU show in awhile, but if the DCAU were to be revived, it could've continues from a plot point of Justice League Unlimited. That's why i would consider this a movie heavily inspired by the DCAU, but not in its continuity.
     
  10. iammattie

    iammattie Member

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    But..... it did follow after JLU?

    We have reference to the watchtower, booster gold, the league, multiple other leaguers are featured as superbabes hostesses, and on top of the movie the tie in comic "Batman and Harley Quinn: Last Call" makes mention of Cadmus and the Blickbuster formula. Dwayne McDuffie and Bruce Timm have already stated ROTJ is post JLU so I'm not sure I understand why it would be a problem to fit this in between the two?

    I get that there are small inconsistencies (Hal Jordan art at Superbabes, Rhonda and Captain clown aren't destroyed, if I remember correctly it's implied Min and Max were killed, new heroes we never saw in DCAU) but at the same time we've had bigger continuity gaffs before and still count everything as canon and just come up with explanations to how it occurred (I.e. static shock seemingly taking place from 2000-2004 but the show only ages him from 14 to about 15). Everyone's take here seems to be "I didn't like it so it's not canon" and it's weird.
     
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  11. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    I wouldn't consider Hal Jordan art inconsistent. Even the late Mr. McDuffie was on the record that in this canon he never became a GL and stayed a test pilot. The others you can kind of rationalize. Maybe Powergirl appeared after the JLU series finale, the Teen Titans have been implied to exist so Starfire can be rationalized, but a Granny Goodness is kinda hard -- Same with the henchman club. Randa and Clown were destroyed -- the latter could've been rebuilt I guess, Min and Max I recall that implication as well, Ubu would never hang with these people -- he's pretty stuck up and what not, Catwoman never employed henchmen in this canon, I can't really see this Ivy employing men - hasn't she only had lady henchs. Yeah, those are nitpicks but when they pile up, I'd rather say it's an AU than try to ignore them and say it's canon. I still am ok with version of this story happening like the way we know essentially how World's Collide happens thanks to Crisis on Two Earths with a few tweaks like Luthor's on book tour instead of in jail.

    It does sort of muddle the ROTJ flashback but it can said maybe the Joker pulled one last fast one on Harl and convinced her he loved her just so he could use her for the punchline he envisioned with the twisted family

    BTW, was there an explanation about ARGUS in that tie-in comic? Did they rise up in the wake of Cadmus being dismantled? Or for that matter where Batgirl and Robin are

    Sure, Static Shock aired from 2000-2004, but that doesn't necessarily mean in-universe, too. I was able to pin it from Fall 2001 to Spring 2003. Turned 14 in 2001, turned 15 in 2002, power outage story was took place in 03 before his birthday. so he was still 15.
     
  12. iammattie

    iammattie Member

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    I'm a little bit intoxicated (last night on the town before moving across the country) so I want to apologize before hand if this post isn't formatted well or rambles or has typos.

    I understand how from person to person the nit picks can add up, but at the same time I personally try to assume everything DCAU style is canon until it absolutely can't be, so they don't bug me as much. Some things in the movie are definitely irritating for continuity (Ivy was never human? Are you going for the plant clone angle? Why are you ignoring that her plant clone died in Batman Adventures v2 then?) but at the same time my irritations lend way to creative solutions to fix said irritations so while it bugs me, I don't let it get to me too drastically. But to each their own.

    As for my point about static, we start it in late 2000 (as far as I can tell, based on homecoming season and the "y2k is so last year" comment in brother sister act) yet by the time of hoop squad, if you follow the NBA players real world careers it has to happen around feb 2004. I'm not sure if my point got lost in my wording, but I feel like that's a bigger continuity gaff than anything that happened in this movie, but we've come up with ways to rectify it (be it moving around episode placement, breaking away from real world dates, etc.)

    currently speaking, while I understand preference, I don't see anything that would 100% keep out the movie as irreconcilable non canon. Mischaracterizations aren't irredeemable in my opinion.

    That being said, on your question about the comic, no mention of ARGUS in the tie in. We get a scene six days after the movie where batman fights Blockbuster (blanking on civilian name but I wanna say that his initials were MD, matching the comic character) and apparently the reason for his transformation was Cadmus. The character and organization aren't explored much further.
     
  13. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    Yes.

    I'd have to take a longer look at that stuff but yeah. There's a few gaffs like that here and there. That year they stated in Zeta Project.

    Oh, okay. So this comic sounds like the sequel section that's set to start in October. That seems odd of them to release them now... but yeah, Mark Desmond probably.
     
  14. SB20xx

    SB20xx Oooooh!
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    I didn't mind the lighter tone to this movie. I DID mind the fart jokes, the Batman '66 action text reference (ironically, the upcoming Adam West Batman animated film looks more serious than this) and a rather gratuitous song sequence that stopped the plot dead in its tracks for a couple minutes.

    There were sequences in "The Killing Joke" that stuck with me long after I watched it. I doubt this one will have the same lasting impact with me, except of course for the stuff I didn't like.
     
    #94 SB20xx, Sep 1, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  15. SweetShop209

    SweetShop209 Well-Known Member

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    Bruce Timm talked about one of the more controversial scenes in the movie.
     
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  16. Pfeiffer-Pfan

    Pfeiffer-Pfan Well-Known Member

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    It's perfectly justifiable between these two characters and its mainly played for laughs. Batman's reaction and their own interactions after the fact was gold.
     
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  17. SweetShop209

    SweetShop209 Well-Known Member

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  18. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    Does this movie being in continuity make in difference in the movie's quality? I mean if its in continuity then that's cool I guess but at least for me it doesn't make any difference in whether or not I like it. Sometimes movies like these can be just fun little adventures and that's it. There's no need to bend over backwards to try and sandwich it in. Based on what some people have said about it it seems like some people would prefer its not. Personally I don't really care either way. It's a fun little movie at the end of the day and nothing more. Since it clearly has no impact on continuity or the grand overall DCAU if it was I don't see the point in twisting and coming up with whatever excuse to jam it in.
     
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  19. Otaku-sempai

    Otaku-sempai Well-Known Member

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    Batman and Harley Quinn debuted at number 5 on "both both the NPD VideoScan overall disc sales chart, which tracks combined DVD and Blu-ray Disc sales, and the dedicated Blu-ray Disc sales chart." That seems like a reasonably respectable debut.
     
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  20. Pfeiffer-Pfan

    Pfeiffer-Pfan Well-Known Member

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    A great debut considering the competition. Hopefully, it'll have some legs.
     
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