D*sney

[Psycho Fox]

I'll just continue the Disney discussion from the Sylvester & Penny's Possible "Club" on this new thread since it was getting kinda of the topic of the orginal post.

Sharklady wrote

Disney isn't the only studio that ever gets it right, and they don't get it right every time, but when they do, they get it righter than anybody else does. Disney animation at it's best is *the* best.

No I don't agree with that. Not that Disney is not a good studio but that they are the best at their best. Lets run go through Disney qualities shall we.

Animation Quality: Yes Disney does good hi-quality animation but they are not the best Richard Williams was going to blow Disney away with Arabian Knight but went bankrupted. There are others that have tried yes all have failed but one of these days someone is gona succeed at this goal.

Spending: Again Richard Williams set new records for animation spending (the biggist reason why his studio when bankrupted)

Story: Ok here I have to say that at thier best they are really really good but still some have blowen Disney away in this are too but they usally sacrifice animation quality.

Overall: I think Disney as one of the top animation studio but I don't think they are the best.

No, I don't approve of Disney's mega-corporation practices, but I regard that as a seperate matter. After all, Time-Warner hasn't exactly got a spotless record in that area either, yet certain WB cartoons are, and shall always be, excellent.

Well for me that is a non-issue but what ticks me off is every year Disney hold a lame'o bore fest at the Ex (I don't know what they really call it) and it sucks yes I know it is free but still it as if they didn't care. (OK WB doesn't even do that but I expect that from WB)

I do repect Disney they are a good studio and they have made some great works but more important is that without them there would be no underground scene since most of those guys went underground couse they where sick of cute Disney style animation. Plus without Dinsey there would be no Bambi thus no Bambi meets Godzilla the 30 second short featuring Gozillia's foot squishing Bambi done in 1969 that sparked the underground scene.

[PennyCat]

Originally posted by Psycho Fox
Plus without Dinsey there would be no Bambi thus no Bambi meets Godzilla the 30 second short featuring Gozillia's foot squishing Bambi done in 1969 that sparked the underground scene.

Okay, I have to ask. What's Dinsey? =X

[Sharklady]

> Animation Quality: Yes Disney does good hi-quality animation but they are not the best Richard Williams was going to blow Disney away with Arabian Knight but went
bankrupted. There are others that have tried yes all have failed but one of these days
someone is gona succeed at this goal. <

One of these days, prehaps, but I'm speaking in the present tense.

> Story: Ok here I have to say that at thier best they are really really good but still some have blowen Disney away in this are too but they usally sacrifice animation quality. <

Can you give me an example? I've seen some animated movies with story-quality *comperable* to the best Disney ('Watership Down', and 'Chicken Run' spring to mind), but none that inarguably surpassed it.

[Psycho Fox]

Okay, I have to ask. What's Dinsey? =X

Sorry typo that should be Disney

Sharklady wrote
Can you give me an example? I've seen some animated movies with story-quality *comperable* to the best Disney ('Watership Down', and 'Chicken Run' spring to mind), but none that inarguably surpassed it.

Plauge Dogs.... Watch it, I was in tears afterwords it shock me more then Bambi when the relization that after all the dogs went through and the fox getting torn by attack dogs to buy them some time the dogs just drowned with high hopes till the end.

I don't see Disney as the best they don't experiment. NFB's shorts is a good example of experimentation since they experimented like mad since the goverment already gave them a pathetic budget so wellfair would have been a step up. They made some deep stuff and controversial like Spinnolio (a take on Pinocchio) about a puppet that gets the good life while he is a puppet (love the fact he got promoted yet did nothing) but when the fairy came to bring him to life he became a homless bum. Then my fav was this short of a E and everyone saing E then the kind came in and said B the doctor gave him glasses so to fix his eyes the king thanked the doctor through the glasses away then ordered his guards to beat everyone till they saw the E as a B. Plus NFB even had the guts to do a sex ed film in a cartoony style but natch the church had something to say about that (Chuck Jones bought the story board). I could go on and on about deep shorts done by NFB and other studios

[Sharklady]

I have not seen 'Plague Dogs'- I did start to read the book once, but found it too depressing to finish. One awful happening right after another...

> I don't see Disney as the best they don't experiment. <

Oh, but they do! A good recent example is 'Mulan'- many of the graphics are in the style of classic Chinese painting. I've never seen any other cartoon try to do that; it's one of several reasons why I greatly enjoyed that movie (I'm very partial to Asian art.)

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Sharklady
I have not seen 'Plague Dogs'- I did start to read the book once, but found it too depressing to finish. One awful happening right after another...

Yes the movie is very depressing and at the end as I said it totaly gets you depresed if not crying but it is still a very good movie.

> I don't see Disney as the best they don't experiment. <

Oh, but they do! A good recent example is 'Mulan'- many of the graphics are in the style of classic Chinese painting. I've never seen any other cartoon try to do that; it's one of several reasons why I greatly enjoyed that movie (I'm very partial to Asian art.)

Ok so they experiment a bit but still for Disney's size they can afford to experiment more but like all big studio they don't it is the smaller ones with nothing to lose (except the studio its self but hey they usally just start up another one) that does it the most. Again NFB tried all sorts of stuff like: Animating directly to the film by scratching lines in it, sliting thin lines in black contruction paper put it on a over head projector then take a picture of it (do it for each frame) and all the lines look like they glow plus you could use chalk for darker lines they also realize that they could put the cell on top the construction paper then and use holes in the contruction paper and the cell to make chandlers actully glow. They even tried beating up the film to give it an aged look and it is hard to belive but NFB was one of the first to use computers for 2D animation way before any of the big studios tried it. Plus they experiment with the content NFB is the underground above ground they tried alot of controversial ideas out as did other small studios.

[The Mad Hatter]

Again NFB tried all sorts of stuff like: Animating directly to the film by scratching lines in it, sliting thin lines in black contruction paper put it on a over head projector then take a picture of it

Back up. It's great that you talk about obscure animation houses, but give us deprived people a little context. What the heck is NFB?

And if you're talking about animation techniques, Disney DOES experiment... obviously you missed the short John Henry, where they animated cloth.

NFB was one of the first to use computers for 2D animation way before any of the big studios tried it.

Ummm... are you sure about that? Pretty much everyone gives Disney's The Great Mouse Detective credit as the first cel film with computerized elements (the gears in the clock tower), and that came out in the early 80s...

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter


Back up. It's great that you talk about obscure animation houses, but give us deprived people a little context. What the heck is NFB?

NFB is the biggiest animation institution in the world or use to be. NFB was a collection of studio's owned by the Canadain goverment which had more people on its payroll then WB and Disney put together it use to make a nice sum of money via doing animations for the military (both Canadain, US and our other allies). But now the goverment does not like the idea of a goverment owened studio and perfers tax creadits to private studios.



And if you're talking about animation techniques, Disney DOES experiment... obviously you missed the short John Henry, where they animated cloth.

Yes I did miss that but the fact is for Disneys size they could be doing alot more experimenting.


Ummm... are you sure about that? Pretty much everyone gives Disney's The Great Mouse Detective credit as the first cel film with computerized elements (the gears in the clock tower), and that came out in the early 80s...

I said first to use Computers for 2D animation. Yes The Great Mouse Detective probably is the first animated movie to use a computer but far from the first animation. Hold on I'll look up NFB's first to give you a perpective. In my copy of Cartoon Capers (which is a nice book on the Canadain animation industry) NFB's first short that was 100% done on a computer was Medadata and that was 1970 second was Hunger in 1974

[Nftnat]

National Film Board would be my guess.

[PennyCat]

Originally posted by Psycho Fox


Sorry typo that should be Disney

My boyfriend would have come up with a definition for Dinsey.

[Craig Marinaro]

A Penny for her thoughts:

My boyfriend would have come up with a definition for Dinsey.

Well, be glad Will isn't your boyfriend, then. And Will will be glad that Keeper isn't his boyfriend. And I'll be glad that Hatter isn't my boyfriend. And Sharklady will be sorry she ever got involved in this thread to begin with!

-C
Official ToonZone Whittler of Little Pine Ducks.

[Nftnat]

As for me, I'm glad I'm not anyone's boyfriend. Altho Belch did threaten to kiss me once. Not to mention those who wanted to eat me.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Nftnat
National Film Board would be my guess.

You are correct, well the full name is National Film Board of Canada but I think I can accept that ansewer

Penny wrote:
My boyfriend would have come up with a definition for Dinsey.

Hmm I can't think up a difinition of Dinsey

[Sharklady]

> NFB's first short that was 100% done on a computer was Medadata and that was 1970 second was Hunger in 1974 <

I *have* seen 'Hunger.' It was included in the 'International Animation Festival' series on PBS- a series long since off the air, alas, but prehaps some of it's eps are available on video. You would've enjoyed that series, Will- it specialized in showcasing experimental animation styles (including some that never caught on in the US, and it's no mystery why.)

For example: remember that 'Simpsons' ep, when the 'Crusty the Clown Show' lost it's right to broadcast 'Itchy and Scratchy', so they tried to substitute a very weird cat-and-mouse cartoon from Eastern Europe?
Guess what: some Eastern European studios really *do* make cartoons like that (or at least *did.*) I saw some very similar examples on that aforementioned Animation series, so instantly recognized the 'Simpsons' clip.

[Nftnat]

Shades of the Deitch-era Tom & Jerrys. I never did really get the eastern Europe toons myself, but that's just me.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Sharklady
I *have* seen Hunger

Me too

It was included in the 'International Animation Festival' series on PBS- a series long since off the air

I watched the shorts when it was in TVO,CBC and later Teletoon but I never seen that PBS series

but prehaps some of it's eps are available on video.

Well I know NFB sells videos that it made via the net

You would've enjoyed that series, Will- it specialized in showcasing experimental animation styles

Hmm maybe I would have.

(including some that never caught on in the US, and it's no mystery why.)

Yes, Did you see that Russian short with the air suit walking arround and the music and the really weird stuff. I remeber seeing it but it is soo weird I really can't expain it, I don't know if I liked it or not it was just werid.

For example: remember that 'Simpsons' ep, when the 'Crusty the Clown Show' lost it's right to broadcast 'Itchy and Scratchy', so they tried to substitute a very weird cat-and-mouse cartoon from Eastern Europe? Guess what: some Eastern European studios really *do* make cartoons like that (or at least *did.*) I saw some very similar examples on that aforementioned Animation series, so instantly recognized the 'Simpsons' clip.

Yhea but some Eastern Euopean stuff is not like that one like the one with the apple tring to get free from a tree or that one whiched showed a flys view point why flying.

[Sharklady]

Oh, I never meant to imply that *all* Eastern Euro animation was like that. I was just mentioning that the example we saw on 'Simpsons' was authentic.

I'll bet a lot of viewers thought it was something Matt Groening made up, possibly while under the influence of a controlled substance. Not this time!

That is, Groening wasn't involved. The controlled substances may have been.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Sharklady
Oh, I never meant to imply that *all* Eastern Euro animation was like that. I was just mentioning that the example we saw on 'Simpsons' was authentic.

I'll bet a lot of viewers thought it was something Matt Groening made up, possibly while under the influence of a controlled substance. Not this time!

That is, Groening wasn't involved. The controlled substances may have been.

Well I have to admit the NFB did some werid a*s stuff too but not that many. Anyway you might be right it is knowen that some NFB animators used controled subtances and you can still animate if you use soft drugs but heavy drugs can distroy your fine motor skill and hand eye coordination meaning you could lose the ablility to draw meaning if they did it was either soft drugs or they were not animators for long.

[PennyCat]

Originally posted by Craig


Well, be glad Will isn't your boyfriend, then. And Will will be glad that Keeper isn't his boyfriend. And I'll be glad that Hatter isn't my boyfriend. And Sharklady will be sorry she ever got involved in this thread to begin with!

-C
Official ToonZone Whittler of Little Pine Ducks.

And you're making me wish I hadn't brought that up.

[PennyCat]

So there.