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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWOtaku View Post
    Ugh.

    The idea that Bioware did a 180 on what the series is about is just crazy to me. We knew there would be a reckoning, we knew there would be hard choices and sacrifices, the game tells everyone within the first fifteen minutes that you can't expect to save everyone in your quest to save the galaxy for future generations. I'm particularly incredulous at the assertion out there on the net that none of the endings--that's right, none of them--are anything that Commander Shepard would ever do. Really?
    It's not the sacrifices fans are upset about Otaku. This goes beyond that. This is the Phantom Menace of the franchise. Also Bioware team did they or did they not talk about very different endings and how player choice mattered into what type of ending you would get?

    Spoiler:
    All the endings of the game are downright nihilist and do go against what the games were establishing in their celebration of diversity. Choosing synthesis is basically what the villains always want to do in action anime like GunXSword. Javik even said the homogenization of the Protheans is what led to their downfall. Synthesis is a horrible solution.

    And then Shepard's body taking a gasp, WTF?!

    Bioware promised us an ending but then at the end they are like, BUY MORE DLC.


    That comic strip is silly. I didn't need Return of The Jedi. Conqueror of Shambala at least would've sufficed. Instead I got Evangelion and the horrible Matrix sequels.
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  2. #42
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    It has little to do with players wanting a happy ending. Media sites keep reporting it that way, and that comic you posted tries to present it that way, but most people don't hate the ending because of that. They hate it because no matter what you do, the differece between the three endings comes down to a change in color of the blast. BioWare tried to spin those three endings by saying that there were sixteen endings. There aren't sixteen endings. There are also a lot of plot-holes and odd questions remaining, such as why Shepard didn't get to ask a single question to the catalyst or why the hell Joker ran away from the battle. Tali was just with me on the ground and then she magically got teleported back to the Normandy. It's full of weird things that they need to explain. I don't want a different ending. I just want them to clarify what the hell is going on.
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  3. #43
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    Once again, they were rushed to meet a deadline. This is what I have to believe. More and more games are suffering this way. Bioware isn't releasing this game, just remember that. It's EA. EA is a publicly traded company and they have quotas to meet and stockholders to please. I don't think its indoctrination, but that extra third act polish just didn't happen. My philosophy is, delay a game if you have to give it the time it needs to ripen. Don't just rush a game out there to meet your stock market quotas.

    That is why they have this unexplainable nonsense that makes no sense just like midichlorians.
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  4. #44
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    Choices do impact what you have to go to war with and they do impact how Earth makes out (if it does at all) and what becomes of Shepard. The three choices on solving the Reaper threat are very different outcomes but sure, I'm for the fixing of plot holes and addition & clarification about the aftermath of those endings would be great. In Deus Ex, you got a short cutscene that at least showed a glimpse of what your choice means. The last cutscene communicates nothing about that, that's true.

    I don't agree that ME3 subverts the idea of diversity at all. The root cause of that complaint reinforces my criticism; the "problem" is compromise rather than a rejection of what Shepard believes in or what the message of the game is.
    Spoiler:
    The "Control" ending preserves things, the "Destruction" ending kills the Reapers at a high cost but at least the galaxy has the chance to rebuild and go forward from there. The synthesis ending is definitely problematic, but that's one out of three.

    If Shepard destroys all synthetics that isn't necessarily an endorsement of the idea that synthetics and organics can't live side by side, just as the Control option by no means insists that synthetic life forms HAVE to be controlled. The choices can mean those things to some players, but the bottom line is that they reflect a basic judgment that removing the Reapers as a threat is absolutely necessary and what it takes to break the cycle we've been stuck in.

    Now OK, sure, the catalyst acts like each choice represents a clear judgment about how well different life forms can get along...but why should we take **ITS** word as gospel?


    It was made very clear time and again how uncompromising the Reapers were. If more freedom means Paragon Shepard ultimately being able to talk them down or something, I'd rather not have it, even under very strict conditions.

    If the "new ending" means there's MORE of an ending, then great. I'm not against that. I'm just saying that's all it should be because the plot of this game is hardly so off course that it demands a fundamental rewrite.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWOtaku View Post
    Choices do impact what you have to go to war with and they do impact how Earth makes out (if it does at all) and what becomes of Shepard.
    Not really. You'll get more than enough assets to get the "good" ending no matter how much you mess up, provided you do all of the scanning and stuff. You can probably just skip the scanning if you play multiplayer over and over. A lot of the game's decisions were railroaded anyway.
    Spoiler:
    Put Anderson on the Council? It doesn't matter. He stepped down. Kill the Rachni? It doesn't matter. The reapers found more. Destroy the collector base? It doesn't matter. Cerberus recovered what they wanted anyway.
    Those are just a few examples. It's more of an illusion of choice, if anything. It makes you feel good, but you could have done the exact opposite and it would have more-or-less turned out the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by GWOtaku View Post
    Spoiler:
    Now OK, sure, the catalyst acts like each choice represents a clear judgment about how well different life forms can get along...but why should we take **ITS** word as gospel?
    Because Shepard does.
    Spoiler:
    No matter what you do to disprove his theory throughout the trilogy, when he says what he says about war being inevitable, Shepard just meekly says "maybe". There should have been a renegade interrupt where you tell that idiot to shut up and that the cycle is stupid.
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  6. #46
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    Spoiler:
    Nothing is preserved. No matter what ALL THE MASS RELAYS ARE DESTROYED! The destruction of which was according to the games supposed to basically cause solar system annihilation. So there's a 180 right there. That to me is NOT choice and your style of gameplay affecting outcome. It means the destruction of all the mass relays is completely and utterly arbitrary NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!

    Shepard from the games has proven to be someone who BREAKS from the cycle time and time again.

    EA marketed this game as TAKE BACK OUR PLANET . . . I mean . . . what happened with that?

    What happens to all the stranded races and aliens around earth? They are just SOL?

    Why would Joker and the Normandy ABANDON THE FINAL BATTLE?!
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    Spoiler:
    Nothing is preserved. No matter what ALL THE MASS RELAYS ARE DESTROYED! The destruction of which was according to the games supposed to basically cause solar system annihilation.
    I'm pretty sure that's not a plot-hole, in and of itself. It's a different kind of explosion. However, the ramifications of which are still extremely negative.
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  8. #48
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    Spoiler:
    A different kind of explosion? What does that mean? If it was like something akin to an interstellar EMP device maybe, but the precedence for the explosion of a mass relay is system wide annihilation. To destroy all of them basically means the civilized universe is fubar.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    Spoiler:
    A different kind of explosion? What does that mean? If it was like something akin to an interstellar EMP device maybe, but the precedence for the explosion of a mass relay is system wide annihilation. To destroy all of them basically means the civilized universe is fubar.
    Spoiler:
    The crucible harnessed the energy of the mass relays so that the resulting energy would be weaponized and deployed to carry out your choice. In Arrival, you didn't have the crucible, so that energy wasn't harnessed and was released in its raw form. Remember, the citadel controls the relays. With the crucible, it's able to avoid blowing everything to smithereens. It is a bit of a deus ex machina, but despite all of the flaws that the ending has, I don't think this is one of them.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Huntsman View Post
    Spoiler:
    The crucible harnessed the energy of the mass relays so that the resulting energy would be weaponized and deployed to carry out your choice. In Arrival, you didn't have the crucible, so that energy wasn't harnessed and was released in its raw form. Remember, the citadel controls the relays. With the crucible, it's able to avoid blowing everything to smithereens. It is a bit of a deus ex machina, but despite all of the flaws that the ending has, I don't think this is one of them.

    Spoiler:
    How is that possible though? Because they do explode and all that dark energy, matter release or whatever wouldn't exploding those reactors theoretically cause cataclysmic damage? Because that's basically what they said. How does a machine cause to avoid such damage?
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  11. #51
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    Let's also not forget this little gem:

    “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
    build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
    eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
    coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
    more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
    decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
    stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
    where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
    ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
    variety in them.”


    Spoiler:
    Funny, seeing how that's exactly what happened.


    There's also this piece here, where one of the writers claims that Casey wrote the ending without the input of any of the other writers.

    As for that Google Doc...

    Spoiler:
    The way I see it, it's not arguing that Indoctrination is canon, it's arguing that the ending makes so little sense that it being all just a mind control dream is the only way to reconcile any of it.
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  12. #52
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    Spoiler:

    Look in the game's own codex. It says when a mass relay is destroyed, note the lack of an asteroid qualifier, the energy released can destroy a star system. IN other words, shep pretty much doomed every world with a mass relay in its system, which is ME, is very few. Nice job breaking it, hero.


    There's also this piece here, where one of the writers claims that Casey wrote the ending without the input of any of the other writers.
    BW said that was fake, but just about every source has said that the guy's account was well known to be a bioware writer, and was active even before ME1. Leaving the only way it could be fake was if someone hacked into his account. IMO, that's unlikely.

    Also, BW said in the deleted tweet, the new content will only clarify and add closure, not change. Indoctrination Theory still falls within those parameters, so even if it wasn't planned, there are so many hints to it, BW could use it easily.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scirel View Post
    Spoiler:

    Look in the game's own codex. It says when a mass relay is destroyed, note the lack of an asteroid qualifier, the energy released can destroy a star system. IN other words, shep pretty much doomed every world with a mass relay in its system, which is ME, is very few. Nice job breaking it, hero.
    The codex isn't 100% accurate. It's like a real world encyclopedia, made up of information known to the universe but not beyond it.

    Spoiler:
    It's why the prothean codex entry shows one of the statues from ilos when protheans don't even look like that. Nobody ever tried to blow up a relay before prior to Arrival, and after Arrival, that was the only one that they could base their theory on. I'm tired of people making that point. The endings clearly show that people are still alive after the fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scirel View Post
    Also, BW said in the deleted tweet, the new content will only clarify and add closure, not change. Indoctrination Theory still falls within those parameters, so even if it wasn't planned, there are so many hints to it, BW could use it easily.
    The indoctrination theory assumes that two of the endings are fake and that only one of the endings are real. People are already complaining about the lack of choice, and fans want them to make it even less of a choice? All three of the endings are valid. People have to accept that.
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  14. #54
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    So Bioware's plan is to:

    1. Provide an example of something (Dedicate an entire mission/charachter/race to it).

    2. Provide another example of something confirming what was previously established.

    3. Say that it actually isn`t true, and you're supposed to know that?

    This works with both AI being actually being benevolent instead of automatically evil (Geth, EDI) and the Mass Relays.

    Spoiler:
    Two major elements of the game that work totally fine with the existing narrative up until the ending, where they say, "Oh BTW, not really". AI are always evil, even the geth who only acted in self defense and the one on your team. Also, who says those people are on earth. In fact, they aren't due to the moons. They could be in a human colony in a system wihtout a relay.


    EDIT:
    Also, IDT is not an ending, it is the openign to a NEW ending where there could be far more choices than
    Spoiler:
    your favorite flavor of apocalypse
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scirel View Post
    Also, IDT is not an ending, it is the openign to a NEW ending where there could be far more choices than
    Spoiler:
    your favorite flavor of apocalypse
    Well, they already said they aren't going to make a new ending, so the indoctrination theory is down for the count. All they're going to do is expand on it and fill in some of the plot holes. There's already cut dialogue in the game where Joker flies in like the cavalry to rescue people, so it would probably be easy for them to explain what he's doing and what happens to the armada and so forth. I think that's vague enough to go without spoiler tags.
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  16. #56
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    Making people get DLC for explanations and "closure" is still IMHO is still pretty bad on the part of Bioware. Bioware broke their promises and making fans buy extra DLC to explain the terrible endings is bad business.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Huntsman View Post
    Well, they already said they aren't going to make a new ending, so the indoctrination theory is down for the count. All they're going to do is expand on it and fill in some of the plot holes. There's already cut dialogue in the game where Joker flies in like the cavalry to rescue people, so it would probably be easy for them to explain what he's doing and what happens to the armada and so forth. I think that's vague enough to go without spoiler tags.
    They did not say "no new ending". THey said they weren't going to CHANGE the ending. As in, repalce it with something else.

    What I mean is, IT would add "additional content". Nothing would be changed, only added.

    Therefore, not changing the ending is still true, they are simply adding to it..

    Though, that's only in my wildest dreams.

    Spoiler:

    I honestly would settle for some art and txt showing what happened to everyone and how they somehow survived. and how on earth everyone got back home. And yes, what happened to shepard if he lived.

    I totally agree that you shouldn't simply be forced to agree with starchild at face value. Especially since the game provides so many counterexamples.


    EDIT:

    This picture sadly makes too much sense, regarding the reapers.

    http://i.imgur.com/y3Nfv.jpg
    Last edited by Scirel; 03-28-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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  18. #58
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    A press release just broke announcing "Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut" downloadable content. The key part:

    Through additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will give fans seeking further clarity to the ending of Mass Effect 3 deeper insights into how their personal journey concludes. Coming this summer, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will be available for download on the Xbox 360® videogame and entertainment system, PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system and PC for no extra charge*.
    The asterisked caveat is that it won't be free for those few that buy Mass Effect 3 after mid-April, 2014 (of course by then, we'll probably have an ultimate edition that includes all the DLC). Here's hoping Bioware does indeed strike an appropriate balance as they address fan response.
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  19. #59
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    Don't worry it looks like it going to remain free after April 2014. So now that the ending will, hopefully, be fix, how about fixing Tali's face next? Because a random girl found on Google images and photoshop is not exatcly what I expected her to look like.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowGUN View Post
    Don't worry it looks like it going to remain free after April 2014. So now that the ending will, hopefully, be fix, how about fixing Tali's face next? Because a random girl found on Google images and photoshop is not exatcly what I expected her to look like.
    It's about what I expected considering they more or less did the same with Shepard and a few others. It'd be nice to have an in game model though but I was satisfied with it...cept that her fingers were too close together but that's nitpicky stuff.

    DLC is nice, free is even better. I think they made the right call with just making something that elaborates rather than change the whole thing.

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