I'm Depressed Now

[HG Revolution]

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/04/poll-sex-in-gam.html

So people are more accepting of decapitations than homosexuality? What is wrong with this world?

[Lighthammer]

Thats gotta be a very bad sampling of data. Comes across as something that was just posted on their own website.

[GWOtaku]

If true, I'm not surprised. Violence is used to such a degree in media that a lot of the shock value goes away. Severed heads? Anyone who's seen The Godfather has been there, done that. On DC metro I've seen teen girls playing Grand Theft Auto on the PSP. Intellectually players know they're beating up people to steal cars, but no negative reaction is to be had. But when "hot coffee" was news people were outraged. Unlike me people like No More Heroes, lost limbs and all.

We see violence in games much more than sex, and certainly more than sex most people aren't used to seeing for themselves. That's not judgment, its just how things are. I don't see it changing either: violence is often critical to a video game one way or another, to whatever degree it happens to be used. That's just not true for sex of any kind, unless we're talking about sucktastic fanservice fests like Dead or Alive Volleyball.

[silverwings]

Wow, what a small sample and what horrible poll options.

Trying to compare two men kissing to heterosexual sex? Are you kidding me? The acts themselves are very different. Let's try the poll again, changing sex to "kissing between a man and a woman" and I bet the results will be drastically different.

[Master Toon]

That's just how things are. There are things that I wish would be different and you guys would probably disagree with me. That's life for ya.

[Squall]

Though the poll could have been taken more accurately and the questions worded more carefully, I have no doubt that it's true, and I've always thought it was ridiculous to consider even mild sex taboo, but extreme violence OK.

For empirical evidence, ask yourself this: Why is it that in the U.S. you can't buy a Playboy DVD in Wal-Mart or Target, but copies of the Hostel and Saw movies are sitting on the shelf, often literally an arm's length away from the kids' DVD section in the next aisle?

Personally, I find the "torture porn" movies like Hostel, Saw, Turistas, Captivity, etc. disgusting. Those DVDs should also be in special 'cover hiding' plastic wrap, behind the counter, where you have to present an ID showing you're 18 or older to buy it, IMO.

Now, I know that adult material goes from mild to extreme, which is why I picked Playboy - their DVDs are about as mild as you can get and still be adult material.

All I'm saying is, I'd rather find a Playboy DVD under my kid's bed, than a copy of one of the Saw movies. Finding one would make me chuckle and say "Well, I guess it's time to have one of those talks!"... the other would make me cringe.

[HG Revolution]

The thing which really gets me isn't the sex vs. violence thing exactly (though that is odd), but the fact even something as mild as kissing is considered worse than extreme violence. I mean, people kiss in Disney movies, right? Of course, those kisses are straight, but there's really no difference between a guy and a girl kissing and two guys kissing. Why must people be so bigoted?

[Squall]

Well, in a country with as many cultures and subcultures as the United States has, there's no way to please everybody. One person's bigotry is another person's righteous indignation.

That being said, I can understand if the public airwaves have some standards to keep the majority of the people happy, but any services you have to pay money for (i.e., cable TV, anything you have to go into a store and buy physcially like magazines, books, CDs, DVDS, video games) should have no censorship at all, only ratings.

(As far as a ratings system goes, remember the whole point of developing a ratings system and having material exclusive to adults is to prevent censorship, while keeping innapropriate material - as far as the majority of the people are concerned, anyway - out of the hands of minors. Though rather than having half a dozen ratings systems, I think that the entertainment industry as a whole should just adopt the G-PG-PG13-R-X ratings system.)

[mookie75]

I must be playing the wrong games, because I haven't seen or heard any of those things in the games I've played.

Although, I guess I did see Niobe and Persephone kiss in that Enter the Matrix game. That was kinda cool. Two men, on the other hand, I could do without seeing. And please don't jump all over me for saying that. They can do whatever they want, I just don't want to have to watch it. If it helps, I don't get much of a thrill out of watching a straight couple kiss either. Of course, I'm talking more about real life now, because as I said, I don't really have any games that display these types of things.

[Squall]

Although, I guess I did see Niobe and Persephone kiss in that Enter the Matrix game. That was kinda cool. Two men, on the other hand, I could do without seeing. And please don't jump all over me for saying that. They can do whatever they want, I just don't want to have to watch it. If it helps, I don't get much of a thrill out of watching a straight couple kiss either. Of course, I'm talking more about real life now, because as I said, I don't really have any games that display these types of things.

Good point. There's a big difference between "Get out the torches and pickaxes! Let's burn any books or movies that feature two guys kissing!" and "Hey, you can go watch or read about two guys kissing all you want; I just have no interest in it." That's the difference between bigotry and indifference - indifference is "I just don't want to see it," while bigotry is "It shouldn't exist at all".

For a non-sexual example, I have no interest in wrestling or fighting. I don't want to be forced to watch the WWE, TNA, or UFC. Not because I advocate their destruction or anything; if you like any or all of those three, enjoy! More power to you. I just have no interest in it myself.

The fact that such nuances exist, even among the various cultures and subcultures in the U.S., makes Hollywood's job complicated when it comes to deciding what content to put where, when, and how. But then again, that's what Hollywood's getting paid for! And as long as they make those decisions based on which audience they're trying to satisfy, and when, rather than out of fear of some government mandated retribution, it's OK with me.

[HG Revolution]

Good point. There's a big difference between "Get out the torches and pickaxes! Let's burn any books or movies that feature two guys kissing!" and "Hey, you can go watch or read about two guys kissing all you want; I just have no interest in it." That's the difference between bigotry and indifference - indifference is "I just don't want to see it," while bigotry is "It shouldn't exist at all".

For a non-sexual example, I have no interest in wrestling or fighting. I don't want to be forced to watch the WWE, TNA, or UFC. Not because I advocate their destruction or anything; if you like any or all of those three, enjoy! More power to you. I just have no interest in it myself.

The fact that such nuances exist, even among the various cultures and subcultures in the U.S., makes Hollywood's job complicated when it comes to deciding what content to put where, when, and how. But then again, that's what Hollywood's getting paid for! And as long as they make those decisions based on which audience they're trying to satisfy, and when, rather than out of fear of some government mandated retribution, it's OK with me.

I'm fine with indifference.

The problem is that this poll was not asking "What are you most indifferent to?". It was asking what people were most offended by.

[Gokou Ruri]

The sex I can understand, the way they worded it made it seem like hardcore porn (where you see everything from start to finish) rather than a tame sex scene like in Mass Effect. Gay kissing, well, it's a big issue right now, not too surprising either. Especially when people don't have to worry about decapitations much in real life, since most kids know its just fake and parents think it's just pixelated violence. Homosexuality is actually a real issue in life.

[mookie75]

Good point. There's a big difference between "Get out the torches and pickaxes! Let's burn any books or movies that feature two guys kissing!" and "Hey, you can go watch or read about two guys kissing all you want; I just have no interest in it." That's the difference between bigotry and indifference - indifference is "I just don't want to see it," while bigotry is "It shouldn't exist at all".

That's true, although if you look closely you'd probably find quite a blur between bigotry and indifference. I'm sure there are many "indifferent" people out there who really do think it shouldn't exist at all, but they choose not to argue that point for reasons like not wanting to hurt people's feelings or out of the assumption that raising a ruckus won't have any results anyway.

We make decisions for and against things based on our own personal thoughts and beliefs every day. The only difference with an issue like this is that it has become more sensitive over the years.

[Kazuya Prower]

Its sad really. We're in a world where people enjoy gorey violence that it scares me.

[Robin2099]

Now, I know that adult material goes from mild to extreme, which is why I picked Playboy - their DVDs are about as mild as you can get and still be adult material.

All I'm saying is, I'd rather find a Playboy DVD under my kid's bed, than a copy of one of the Saw movies. Finding one would make me chuckle and say "Well, I guess it's time to have one of those talks!"... the other would make me cringe.

So if you were to find a copy of Saw, which is a fake movie which people for the most part can tell the difference between you'd be offended, but a Playboy would be amusing? That's just as extreme as what you think is goofy about society and their views on sex(and I'm not trying to flame you so don't take it that way).

As for the poll I can't really say it surprises me. People by and large just aren't really comfortable with seeing same sex kisses or sex in general. Plus we have to remember that this was a poll directed at parents and sex is always the 75 lb elephant in the room, so the less their kids are exposed the less they have to talk about it. Plus it's much easier for Billy to have sex, as opposed to Billy ripping Jimmy's head off.

[Master Toon]

Its sad really. We're in a world where people enjoy gorey violence that it scares me.

So we should stop making violent movies and video games? Never!

[Anyone00]

Well different society have had different views on the subjects but violence has been typically very public (it's hard to have military battles behind close doors) and sex has typically been much more private (people like to get a room, "red light" districts existing as their own areas).

Movies, T.V., and video games are seen more as public mediums than private ones.

I wonder, if there was a video game or movie made about Mausolus and it heavily featured his relationship with Artemisa (and portrayed the relationship in a very positive light and anyone who disparaged it in a very negative light) would you be offended by this or have no problem with others being offended by this? Would you be offended more by this relationship than the violence of Mausolus's conquest or have no problem with others being offended?

[HG Revolution]

I wonder, if there was a video game or movie made about Mausolus and it heavily featured his relationship with Artemisa (and portrayed the relationship in a very positive light and anyone who disparaged it in a very negative light) would you be offended by this or have no problem with others being offended by this? Would you be offended more by this relationship than the violence of Mausolus's conquest or have no problem with others being offended?

I wouldn't be outright offended by a film or game that glorified incest, though it would certain weird me out and I can understand and respect why someone would be offended by it. Whether I find it more or less offensive than the violence depends on the portrayal of said violence: if it was treating the violence either objectively or as something wrong, I wouldn't consider it an offensive work, but if it was some sadistic pro-torture piece, then I'd be way more appalled by it than the incest.

[Dr. Anime]

You know what's kind of interesting? They don't mention two women kissing. So are games with lesbians in them are ok? Lesbians who swear and hack off heads are fine. (Note this was somebody elses response on another forum related to this topic. Sadly I don't remember where I read it, but I don't want people thinking this came from me. I think whoever wrote that was pretty spot on.)

But really this reminds me of that South Park episode where Butters gets a ninja star in the eye and the parents only seem to care about Cartman being naked.

[Gokou Ruri]

You know what's kind of interesting? They don't mention two women kissing. So are games with lesbians in them are ok? Lesbians who swear and hack off heads are fine. (Note this was somebody elses response on another forum related to this topic. Sadly I don't remember where I read it, but I don't want people thinking this came from me. I think whoever wrote that was pretty spot on.)

But really this reminds me of that South Park episode where Butters gets a ninja star in the eye and the parents only seem to care about Cartman being naked.

Nobody cares about lesbians.

Half-serious. It seems whenever homosexuality is being talked about, it leads to two guys. South Park also made this joke in the episode where Stan and Kyle take care of an Egg, they spend the entire episode talking about two male parents, then someone casually asks "What about two girls" and another says "Like anyone cares about *lesbians* (a more crude word was used)"