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  1. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectSeven View Post
    Sonic X continues to bring in the higher ratings for the Toonzai block. I wonder why 4kids hasn't shown any interest in selling the license for this show because I believe they could get a good price from selling Sonic X off. I know there has been some talk of other assets being sold along with YGO but there hasn't been any specifics of what those other assets include.
    Why would they sell one of the few shows that actually brings them success?

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  2. #622
    Kazamatsuri is offline Member
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    Here's what I think is going on.

    If you go over to this site, it would seem that Classic Media is indeed the potential purchaser. However, they will not be purchasing the entire Yugioh franchise (more on that later).

    As I mentioned in my earlier post, 4Kids only owns the patent on Yugioh, not the franchise itself. Based on the amortization process, combined with how in revenues it has generated over the past few years, among other factors. I'd say that Yugioh's patent is worth well over $20 million as we speak. I doubt any company (especially Classic Media) would pay that much up front, unless they knew of a surefire way to generate greater revenue s with the limited time they would own the patent.

    That said, Classic Media is called what it is for a reason. It's interested in, well, 'classic media.' My guess is that they are indeed interested in Yugioh. What I believe they're after,are the distribution rights to Duel Monsters. That's the only portion of the Yugioh franchise that could actually be considered "classic media. I think what may eventually come out the talks between 4Kids and CM is a revenue sharing agreement (most likely 50/50). On top of that, CM may be obligated to pay an initial fee somewhere around 3 to 4 million.

    Beyond that, it would seem that virtually everything on Toonzai is 'classic media.' I wouldn't be surprised if CM is interested in other 4Kids license, such as Sonic X for example, or Cubix,or even 4Kids own produced WMAC Masters, which believe it or not, predates even the days of Pokemon.

    Having said all that, 4Kids will continue to retain full control over Zexal. When you combine their mentality that everything they hold the license to has to be created 'their way,' and the fact that they've already dubbed the first two dozen episodes, that pretty much spells it out right there.

  3. #623
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    Takao is offline Fight the darkness all around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Lucario View Post
    Well, the ratings for the last episode of Zexal was much better than I expected, especially when the last few episodes haven't even gotten past the 0.8 mark. The block seemed to doing pretty strong until the second DBZ Kai repeat. Those ratings for Tai Chi Chasers and especially Capsule Monsters were painfully bad. I don't think I've seen the 11:30AM slot get a rating that low since around the time the 5D's dub was finishing up.
    I have to imagine there was some kind of pre-emption on a lot of affiliates. Even the second Kai episode was low.
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  4. #624
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    bigddan11 is offline Justice must be served!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectSeven View Post
    Sonic X continues to bring in the higher ratings for the Toonzai block. I wonder why 4kids hasn't shown any interest in selling the license for this show because I believe they could get a good price from selling Sonic X off. I know there has been some talk of other assets being sold along with YGO but there hasn't been any specifics of what those other assets include.
    I don't know that 4Kids can sell Sonic X to anyone because they might not have the full license. 4Kids got the rights to Sonic X from ShoPro Entertainment before ShoPro merged with Viz to become Viz Media. Since no one seems to have posted a contract showing what rights ShoPro kept or if 4Kids inheirited all rights from ShoPro, then they might not be able to sale it. It could be if the license expires, it goes back to Viz Media or something.
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  5. #625
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    ChibiGoku is offline Something Not Quite Right
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigddan11 View Post
    I don't know that 4Kids can sell Sonic X to anyone because they might not have the full license. 4Kids got the rights to Sonic X from ShoPro Entertainment before ShoPro merged with Viz to become Viz Media. Since no one seems to have posted a contract showing what rights ShoPro kept or if 4Kids inheirited all rights from ShoPro, then they might not be able to sale it. It could be if the license expires, it goes back to Viz Media or something.
    Actually, my understanding is what happened is 4Kids acquired it from TMS and Sega, while Shopro at the time acquired the merchandising rights to the series (unsure through 4Kids or original licensor). Viz Media, who now owns that license, doesn't actually have control over the actual license, but only the sub-license of merchandising and other related material. Unless I'm mistaken, this was all stated in a press release on Shopro USA's site way back when it was still up.

  6. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazamatsuri View Post
    Here's what I think is going on.

    If you go over to this site, it would seem that Classic Media is indeed the potential purchaser. However, they will not be purchasing the entire Yugioh franchise (more on that later).

    As I mentioned in my earlier post, 4Kids only owns the patent on Yugioh, not the franchise itself. Based on the amortization process, combined with how in revenues it has generated over the past few years, among other factors. I'd say that Yugioh's patent is worth well over $20 million as we speak. I doubt any company (especially Classic Media) would pay that much up front, unless they knew of a surefire way to generate greater revenue s with the limited time they would own the patent.

    That said, Classic Media is called what it is for a reason. It's interested in, well, 'classic media.' My guess is that they are indeed interested in Yugioh. What I believe they're after,are the distribution rights to Duel Monsters. That's the only portion of the Yugioh franchise that could actually be considered "classic media. I think what may eventually come out the talks between 4Kids and CM is a revenue sharing agreement (most likely 50/50). On top of that, CM may be obligated to pay an initial fee somewhere around 3 to 4 million.

    Beyond that, it would seem that virtually everything on Toonzai is 'classic media.' I wouldn't be surprised if CM is interested in other 4Kids license, such as Sonic X for example, or Cubix,or even 4Kids own produced WMAC Masters, which believe it or not, predates even the days of Pokemon.

    Having said all that, 4Kids will continue to retain full control over Zexal. When you combine their mentality that everything they hold the license to has to be created 'their way,' and the fact that they've already dubbed the first two dozen episodes, that pretty much spells it out right there.
    While I agree that the DM dub is the only Yu-Gi-Oh! series that could be considered "classic," I don't think that's the same kind of classic in Classic Media's other properties. Almost every show that they have are a couple of decades old. DM can be considered the classic Yu-Gi-Oh! series, but not the same kind of classic as Rocky and Bullwinkile or Lassie. I'm not even sure that Classic Media would be interested in the distribution rights to the series. While 4Kids did release most of the DM series on DVD years ago, they clearly weren't selling well given that Funimation stopped being the distributor a few years ago. Besides that, 4Kids should be more interested in getting a DVD distributor for Zexal. As much as I dislike the new series, they should be putting more attention on Zexal than DM, at least in the DVD department, in order to get kids interested in the brand new series, instead of depending on the same reruns to give them some money before they crash and burn.

    I really don't think that Toonzai is virtually full of "classic media" programming. Sonic X and especially Cubix aren't considered classic. Neither series are fondly remembered and while Sonic X is more popular, I don't think enough time has passed for it to be considered classic. DBZ Kai is just a re-edited version of the classic series to follow the manga, so I don't know if Kai itself should be considered classic in that sense. Tai Chi Chasers is a new series and I seriously doubt that it will be considered a classic at any point in the future.

    I'm still pretty doubtful that Classic Media would be interested in the distribution rights for DM. Despite being arguably considered the classic Yu-Gi-Oh! series, it's still far too recent compared to the other shows Classic Media owns/deals with and I think it would make more sense for 4Kids to get a company interested in buying the distribution rights to all of the Yu-Gi-Oh! series, rather than just DM, so that they can potentially release Zexal DVDs at some point. I still think that it's sadly only a matter of time before the company crumbles if nothing drastically changes for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Takao
    I have to imagine there was some kind of pre-emption on a lot of affiliates. Even the second Kai episode was low.
    That's a strong possibility given the low rating for the second Kai episode and that the 11:30AM slot hasn't turned out a rating that bad in a long time.

  7. #627
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    jerrymouse16 is offline Sonic and Amy Forever!!!
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    A bit off topic, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Takao View Post

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    I've haven't seen a show with nobody watching it whatsoever in a long time.

  8. #628
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    veemonjosh is offline The Fruit Shogun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takao View Post
    NBC (Qubo on NBC)Avg. 0.1/0 (10a-1p)
    Zula Patrol 0.0/0; Shelldon 0.1/0; Jane and the Dragon 0.1/1; Babar 0.1/0; Willa's Wild Life 0.1/1; Pearlie 0.1/1
    ...Wow. Literally NO ONE is watching Qubo anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Takao View Post
    I have to imagine there was some kind of pre-emption on a lot of affiliates. Even the second Kai episode was low.
    It was also a holiday weekend. Many affiliates were probably preempted for parades and syndicated church services.
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  9. #629
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    An Update on the 4Kids Sale

    Aparently the new Court Docket Came today, and the purchaser for the Yu-Gi-Oh Licence is Kidsco Media Ventures LLC. I Don't know if the production is in the US or UK. But this explains whole process on the purchasing of the Yu-Gi-Oh Licence.

    http://wmish.com/4k/ygo_363/588-2.pdf

    My Only Concerns is who will air ZEXAL? Will Yu-Gi-Oh Stay in America? And Will we a Yu-Gi-Oh DVD out soon? And Finally will they keep the current actors if they are located here in the USA?

    EDIT: O Just Found out! Kidsco Media is run by Saban Entertainment (The Puchasers of Power Rangers back in 2010.) And Just learned that nothing will change and it will still air on Toonzai.

    Another EDIT: This is also explaining why Saban is the power to Kidco, as this is also in the court document link as well!
    7.11 Saban Capital Guarantee. As of the execution of this Agreement, Saban
    Properties LLC shall execute and deliver a guarantee of all of Purchaser’s obligations under this
    Agreement substantially in the form of the guarantee attached hereto as Exhibit G.
    Last edited by 4Kids4EverFandom; 04-18-2012 at 05:26 PM.

  10. #630
    aegisrawks is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by veemonjosh View Post
    ...Wow. Literally NO ONE is watching Qubo anymore.



    It was also a holiday weekend. Many affiliates were probably preempted for parades and syndicated church services.
    This doesnt mean ABSOLUTELY no one is watching. Just no one in the 6-11 demographic.

  11. #631
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    ChibiGoku is offline Something Not Quite Right
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Kids4EverFandom View Post
    You know, this whole thing is confusing. Does this mean that 4Kids as a whole has been bought by them, or that they have acquired specific licenses from them.

  12. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiGoku View Post
    You know, this whole thing is confusing. Does this mean that 4Kids as a whole has been bought by them, or that they have acquired specific licenses from them.
    Saban has acquired the Yu-Gi-Oh! license, not 4Kids Entertainment. The contract made with 4Kids still gives CW4Kids the rights to air Yu-Gi-Oh! and it gives Hulu the rights to streaming the series. Essentially Saban Groups will produce it now instead of 4Kids, meaning Saban will provide the cash for Yu-Gi-Oh! and Saban will take care of all Yu-Gi-Oh! fees from the court cases. 4Kids still owns the Toonzai block and the rights to broadcast Yu-Gi-Oh!, but Saban has inherited the dubbing rights and distribution rights. With the deal Saban made with Lionsgate and Shout! for Power Rangers, it wouldn't be shocking if Yu-Gi-Oh! will see each of its series being released again within the next year or so.
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  13. #633
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    Well, I never thought 4Kids would sell the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise, after all its their only property with some kind of life left in it thats still producing new episodes. Wow, so 4Kids still retains the rights to air the series, but is that until Zexal finishes its run or is that the whole franchise in general?

    I'm still trying to figure out how this deal benefits 4Kids, other than the money they received from the sale itself. I'm afraid this is the final nail in the coffin for 4Kids. With the company in its current financial state, without Yu-Gi-Oh! 4Kids is as good as dead.

    I wonder if this means the possibility of seeing Yu-Gi-Oh! on Nicktoons.

  14. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic_Eclipse View Post
    Well, I never thought 4Kids would sell the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise, after all its their only property with some kind of life left in it thats still producing new episodes. Wow, so 4Kids still retains the rights to air the series, but is that until Zexal finishes its run or is that the whole franchise in general?
    I'm pretty sure that they'll be able to air all of the various Yu-Gi-Oh! series until either their rights to air expires or until their contract with the CW runs out. They may have until 2015, which was when their hold over the franchise was set to expire, but I'm not sure if that contract has any power now that they've sold the franchise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic_Eclipse
    I'm still trying to figure out how this deal benefits 4Kids, other than the money they received from the sale itself. I'm afraid this is the final nail in the coffin for 4Kids. With the company in its current financial state, without Yu-Gi-Oh! 4Kids is as good as dead.
    My guess is that 4Kids couldn't afford to keep dubbing Zexal themselves. They only have about seventy-one employees and have been losing more and more money in each quarter. Considering how expensive dubbing a series is, along with all the paint edits they had to do with the back of the cards, they couldn't keep it going for too long. It was probably more worthwhile for them financially to sell the franchise and get more money right awhile rather than hold the rights until they file for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy. Though, I agree that this does seem like the final nail in the coffin for 4Kids. Since they only have the rights to air it, they won't get money off the series like they used to and while this deal will give them more money, it's only going to be temporary and not having the Yu-Gi-Oh! license is only to lead them to Chapter 7 Bankruptcy even sooner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic_Eclipse
    I wonder if this means the possibility of seeing Yu-Gi-Oh! on Nicktoons.
    I think that there's a good possibility of that considering that Saban already has Power Rangers Samurai airing on Nickelodeon. It would give the franchise more exposure than staying just on the CW4Kids, which I think it really needs at this point.

    This news really does surprise me. I wasn't expecting Saban to get the dubbing rights to the series. Though, that does make a lot more sense than the idea of Classic Media getting the license or even the DVD distribution right. At least Saban has experience with more recent children's programs. While I sadly don't think Saban would redub the other series, unless there was a strong demand for it, I do hope that they'll continue releasing legal subs at least online. There is a market for that and considering all of the subs 4Kids already put up on Hulu, it would be a shame to just stop that. I'd love it if they could have legal subs for DM. They could probably work with the contract issues with the Japanese voice actors if there was a strong demand for it. Though, they'll obviously put their focus on Zexal right now given that it's the most recent series and promotes the newest cards.

    Even though 4Kids4EverFandom said that nothing would change, I would honestly prefer it if the dub cast for Zexal did change. It isn't the worse 4Kids dub cast by any means, but at the same time, it could stand to get a better cast. I don't know if Saban would want to hire a studio in New York if it would be cheaper to do it somewhere else. At least Saban could probably get a DVD release for the various Yu-Gi-Oh! series, although I'm pretty sure that they'll want to get Zexal out before the older series due to being the one they need to promote the most at the moment.

  15. #635
    aegisrawks is online now Senior Member
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    I kind of Disagree with Light. While Annoying, Eli Jay REALLY nailed Yuma IMHO even better than his Japanese Voice Actor.

  16. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Lucario View Post
    I'm pretty sure that they'll be able to air all of the various Yu-Gi-Oh! series until either their rights to air expires or until their contract with the CW runs out. They may have until 2015, which was when their hold over the franchise was set to expire, but I'm not sure if that contract has any power now that they've sold the franchise.
    They Can air it on Nicktoons and Nickelodeon, since they have done that Power Rangers Samauri!

  17. #637
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    Kidsco of Saban huh? Can't say I saw this coming. Apparently Chaotic is somehow involved as well but I don't see anything that can be done for that series. I wonder what Saban would do with the YGO series they got. Will there be a new dub or will they just sell it to ADK (that's been speculated for a while now). 4kids seems to be planning some more sales as well. Dinosaur King seems to be rumored as one of the assets being sold. Not much detail on the other assets though. I guess we'll just have to see in the coming weeks.

  18. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by aegisrawks View Post
    I kind of Disagree with Light. While Annoying, Eli Jay REALLY nailed Yuma IMHO even better than his Japanese Voice Actor.
    I don't know if he's better than the Japanese voice actor. Yuma's voice is annoying in both versions, which probably fits given how annoying the character is, but I wouldn't mind seeing someone provide a less annoying voice for Yuma. Aside from Tori, Astral, Kite and maybe Shark, none of the voices really work for me. Most of them aren't really bad, but just barely passable. I'd personally wouldn't mind it if they could get a new cast, but I wouldn't be crushed if they didn't either. The current cast could be better if there was better voice direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectSeven
    Kidsco of Saban huh? Can't say I saw this coming. Apparently Chaotic is somehow involved as well but I don't see anything that can be done for that series. I wonder what Saban would do with the YGO series they got. Will there be a new dub or will they just sell it to ADK (that's been speculated for a while now). 4kids seems to be planning some more sales as well. Dinosaur King seems to be rumored as one of the assets being sold. Not much detail on the other assets though. I guess we'll just have to see in the coming weeks.
    If ADK has that American division set up, then I think that they could be involved with where the Zexal dub goes from here. Maybe they could handle recording the dub while Saban gets the DVD distributor and airtime on Nickelodeon and/or Nicktoons. They were most likely involved with this dealing regarding the license, or at least aware of what's going on, due to their contract with 4Kids. I imagine that they'll communicate with Saban to see what their next plans are and decide from there. I'm surprised that they're planning on selling Chaotic and Dinosaur King. Like you said, there can't be much done with Chaotic at this point and the same can be said for Dinosaur King too. Both series have run their course, it's highly unlikely that new episodes would be made if some company bought them and the poor DVD sales for Dinosaur King probably doesn't encourage a lot of companies to buy that series if they do put it up for sale. If they are planning on selling those two series, then it's even clearer to me that 4Kids is just trying to get some last bit of money before declaring Chapter 7 Bankruptcy.

  19. #639
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    Weird to think of Saban having Yu-Gi-Oh. They haven't had an anime property since...heck, Digimon Tamers.

    Looks like Sonic X is 4Kids' last chance at life.

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  20. #640
    CyberCubed is offline Senior Member
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    So the time for 4kids demise has finally come. I had to return to this thread just for this moment.

    Its almost hard to believe they lingered on as long as they did. After all these years its finally coming to an end.

    Wow.

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