Where is the originality?!

[JustJack]

Back down in the "Fox Kids Beating the Dead horse" post...It reminded me of a very obvious thing that I believe is what is killing TV today...

ORIGINALITY!!!

Just think..

Once PokeMon came on the scene, it has generated more "rip-offs" than Power Rangers ever did! The sad part is..they're all doing well. Digimon(cute monsters) Monster Rancher(not as cute..but still..), Yu-Gi-Oh(I have no clue about this show..and I still don't want to have a clue). While at one time, kids training monsters to battle eachother, was fun. Now it's just a cliche' POS. Period!
Power Rangers may have been fun at first..but after seeing the same episode done over a million times, it gets tiresome.
Every show on TV has a billion different elements from every other show around!!
And, while a lot of shows on American TV today get tiresome, slowly Japanese television got more popular. Why? It was new! IT HAD CULTURE(my main reason for watching). So while I use to love classic, original Anime, it is no longer cool, classic anime. It has been tainted by American writers coming in, changing stuff, then making it as cliche' as everything else. Now Anime in general is simply not original, because it's everywhere.

I remember back in the days of He-Man, Ghostbusters, Thundercats, Transformers, Ninja Turtle, Voltron, and Garfield. That's what I grew up, people! That's what I loved. But it's no longer Original TV, as everyone else has used these shows & their ideas to make new crap, that no one likes. That's why animated TV is dieing..it's not original.

Notice, He-Man is making a HUGE comeback(thank god!) Ghostbusters is still as popular as ever. Thundercats is still a fanfare franchise. Transformers is a HUGE property to own. Ninja Turtles are finally making a comeback in the right light. Voltron is...still..around. And who doesn't like Garfield?

We need something NEW & ORGINAL. That's all I'm saying people.

[icecold]

Bravo!!!! Well said my boy!

[I.R Joey]

Good post dude. It is true that we need alot more innovation in the the world. For the most part I agree but I hope you don't mind if I play devils advocate with ya though for the sake of the thread.

Really they are not that many "New" ideas. It is my belief that everything can be traced back to some tale in the human psyche, probably from the stone age. Pokemon is kind of a take of animal fighting. Heck, look at Pokemon Stadium 64 its like a gladiator fight right. Even the show is kinda like cock fighting or dog fighting (what kind of messege are we sending to kids anyway )

As for anime. You know there are just as many cliches in anime as there are in U.S cartoons. Like he giant robots, from some space factory turn into a jet or spaceship, or hyper cute school girls with short skirts turning into super heroes with magic powers. It's the diffrent cultures IMO. I'm sure that many people in Japan are fascinated by Westerns, similar to the way some of us might be fascinated by fedual shogans. As a Sci-fi novelist I can tell you that every piece of fiction is created from bits and pieces of things the creator liked. Sometimes that is done subconsciously and other times intentionally. You know when I was doing charecter designs and sketches for one of my stories I notice that many of the things I created resembled shows/games I enjoyed. O that the charecters resembled people I knew both in apperance and actions. Look at A.I for instancet many would argue that this was simply Pinochio (spelling) 2001. In my opinion a truely good writer is one that can rework old ideas, in clever often subtle ways.

And I assure you that if you where to go back and look at some of the things you use to like when you where little it would make you recoil. Heck, I'm sure many young adults in the 80's looked at what kids where watching and said.

"This is stupid remember when we had like the Herculoids, and Jonny Quest."

It's the cycle of generations. We always look back at our youth, but often fail to see how much the fog of nostolgia hinders our discerning vision.

[RockItShipper]

Originally posted by I.R Joey
"This is stupid remember when we had like the Herculoids, and Jonny Quest."

It's the cycle of generations. We always look back at our youth, but often fail to see how much the fog of nostolgia hinders our discerning vision.

Yep. I grabbed a book on the ABC Beatles show at the airport this morning... It was very obvious the author loved the show, but the praise from those he interviewed... George said it was so bad and/or silly that it was good, and the staff looked back fondly on the experience but not the product. There was even a mention of mistakes, breast reductions requested by tv censors, and cameos by the animators in the episode guide.

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by JustJack
Back down in the "Fox Kids Beating the Dead horse" post...It reminded me of a very obvious thing that I believe is what is killing TV today...

ORIGINALITY!!!

Just think..

Once PokeMon came on the scene, it has generated more "rip-offs" than Power Rangers ever did! The sad part is..they're all doing well. Digimon(cute monsters) Monster Rancher(not as cute..but still..), Yu-Gi-Oh(I have no clue about this show..and I still don't want to have a clue). While at one time, kids training monsters to battle eachother, was fun. Now it's just a cliche' POS. Period!
Power Rangers may have been fun at first..but after seeing the same episode done over a million times, it gets tiresome.
Every show on TV has a billion different elements from every other show around!!
And, while a lot of shows on American TV today get tiresome, slowly Japanese television got more popular. Why? It was new! IT HAD CULTURE(my main reason for watching). So while I use to love classic, original Anime, it is no longer cool, classic anime. It has been tainted by American writers coming in, changing stuff, then making it as cliche' as everything else. Now Anime in general is simply not original, because it's everywhere.

I remember back in the days of He-Man, Ghostbusters, Thundercats, Transformers, Ninja Turtle, Voltron, and Garfield. That's what I grew up, people! That's what I loved. But it's no longer Original TV, as everyone else has used these shows & their ideas to make new crap, that no one likes. That's why animated TV is dieing..it's not original.

Notice, He-Man is making a HUGE comeback(thank god!) Ghostbusters is still as popular as ever. Thundercats is still a fanfare franchise. Transformers is a HUGE property to own. Ninja Turtles are finally making a comeback in the right light. Voltron is...still..around. And who doesn't like Garfield?

We need something NEW & ORGINAL. That's all I'm saying people.

Nicely put, and I'm afraid the obvious nature of it all is the answer. Money. The wrong people are in charge, and those stupid suited freaks just want money. They don't care about REAL character and story driven animation and overall television.

[Scythemantis]

Digimon is nothing like pokemon,really...they can talk,they evolve into very un-cute monsters,they fight to save the world from demons (as opposed to fighting for sport) and arent "owned" by humans,just teamed up with them.Monster rancher has the training/arena fighting thing going on,but not as the main focus...its kinda saying spiderman and superman are ripoffs of eachother for both being superheroes :P

Oh well.

I think shows have lost a very great deal of creativity as well.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Sting chameleon
Digimon is nothing like pokemon,really...they can talk,they evolve into very un-cute monsters,they fight to save the world from demons (as opposed to fighting for sport) and arent "owned" by humans,just teamed up with them.Monster rancher has the training/arena fighting thing going on,but not as the main focus...its kinda saying spiderman and superman are ripoffs of eachother for both being superheroes :P

Nice try. A rip-off is still a rip-off no matter what variation it's in. Pokemon popularized pet monster shows, though I believe pet monsters have been popular bideo game subjects in Japan for quite a while now.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by JustJack

And, while a lot of shows on American TV today get tiresome, slowly Japanese television got more popular. Why? It was new! IT HAD CULTURE(my main reason for watching). So while I use to love classic, original Anime, it is no longer cool, classic anime. It has been tainted by American writers coming in, changing stuff, then making it as cliche' as everything else. Now Anime in general is simply not original, because it's everywhere.


Notice, He-Man is making a HUGE comeback(thank god!) Ghostbusters is still as popular as ever. Thundercats is still a fanfare franchise. Transformers is a HUGE property to own. Ninja Turtles are finally making a comeback in the right light. Voltron is...still..around. And who doesn't like Garfield?

We need something NEW & ORGINAL. That's all I'm saying people.

Well, I don't like Garfield, at least not the strip. Davis simply went downhill after the first 6 years or so. I LOVE the character, but I think the basic concept is getting old.

I think that the anime "style" has lost its "niche appeal" now that it's mainstream again, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be excited if they aired one of the more unusual shows. I would be thrilled if they aired stuff like Hidamari no Ki, Niea_7 or even Turn A Gundam, which is as different a Gundam series as one could get (other than G Gundam, which is an acquired taste). The problem is that American networks pick up anime that aren't fundamentally different from what else you see on TV. Where are the romances, the historical dramas, the TV adaptations of famous novels? Okay, maybe Tenchi is as close as anime sitcom as one could get (Three's Company, except with more than three!) , but THAT'S IT! Everything else is just Sat AM action.

I would enjoy an American animated TV series of comic books like Love and Rockets, but since nobody is willing to take a risk...

I have been enjoying "Redwall" on PBS, which is an admirable step forward for the network and for children's animation. But I find that sometimes the execution is lacking for many animated dramas (both in anime and western), which I think is the problem for many shows. Drama is often undercut by hokey music or pacing that is too brisk to totally milk the emotions out of them.

[Scythemantis]

I recall when doom first came out,many video games copied its first-person perspective and were labeled "doom clones" until the sheer number of them forced it to be labeled a genre.No doubt the same sort of thing happened when superheroes first became popular,not to mention monster movies,saturday morning cartoons,and just about everything else.There was a time when any prime-time toon was considered a simpsons wannabe...so its not that "ripoffs" are new or even more common today,its just that we forget most of the ripoffs of yesterday.

The only thing I consider a ripoff of pokemon is the extremely blatant "robopon",which I swear is just the pokemon gameboy game with different names and pictures pasted over the monsters.It has robots instead of flesh and blood critters,but the entire game is a mirror-image of pokemon...down to the music,graphics,menu layout,even the FONT! Cute monster cartoons have been around long before pokemon in japan,too,they just all hit the U.S. at once...

Of course im someone who doesnt even think of "antz" and "bugs life" as being ripoffs of eachother.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by JustJack

Notice, He-Man is making a HUGE comeback(thank god!) Ghostbusters is still as popular as ever. Thundercats is still a fanfare franchise. Transformers is a HUGE property to own. Ninja Turtles are finally making a comeback in the right light. Voltron is...still..around. And who doesn't like Garfield?

What? I hadn't put my reply in here yet? I thought I had? I must be slipping!

Anyway, belated as it is, here's my 2¢. Each generation does have it's own set of cartoons that it looks upon favorably, and probably thru rose colored glasses. I was young enough to watch He Man but old enough to not have it leave a lasting impression on me. I go back a few years to Battle of the Planets and Robotech and the sort, and I thought He Man was an awful cartoon and just as you are all now imagining that kids today will grow up realizing what crap Pokemon is, I thought for sure kids back then would grow up realizing what crap He Man was. Of course, that hasn't happened, and I don't fault anybody for liking these shows, or the others listed, as I can recognize the good in them, but to me, they were just daily thirty minute toy commercials. And that's what people think of Pokemon today.

As far as the originality subject...well, it's not likely we are going to see a on slaught of original programming anytime soon. I do believe there are struggling animators out there who aren't getting jobs because their work is out side of the norm, but they may be sitting on the Next Big Thing and nobody is recognizing it because the TV studios need to fall back on Old Reliable for guaranteed advertisement dollars. And while an original series may fall thru the cracks every now and then and generate tons of interest, soon that Next Big Thing everybody was talking about is not Old Reliable and every thing after it must be patterned after the show that was once original or it will fail, or not be picked up at all.

Simpsons is the best example I can think of. It was the Next Big Thing when it came out, and if it wasn't for Fox being daring with their new programming, I doubt that any other network would have given Matt Groening a chance to stand on their welcome mat let alone let him past the door. Now it is Old Reliable, a guaranteed money generator for Fox, and sadly, all prime time toons since then get compared to the Simpsons. Even original programming like Duckman, the Critic, and Clerks must some how live up to the standard set by the Simpsons. And Duckman, Critic, Clerks, and countless others (I am still mourning the loss of Mission Hill to this day!) get cast by the side of the road unless they can stand up to the measuring rod held up by the Simpsons. We've had original programming, and original programming is still out there in limbo because nobody will pick it up, all because it doesn't measure up to the old reliables that have been guaranteed to make money. And in TV land, money is what makes the world go around, and you can be original, have a cult following, and get tons of positive reviews, but unless you make money, it is all for nothing.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Sting chameleon
I recall when doom first came out,many video games copied its first-person perspective and were labeled "doom clones" until the sheer number of them forced it to be labeled a genre.No doubt the same sort of thing happened when superheroes first became popular,not to mention monster movies,saturday morning cartoons,and just about everything else.There was a time when any prime-time toon was considered a simpsons wannabe...so its not that "ripoffs" are new or even more common today,its just that we forget most of the ripoffs of yesterday.

The only thing I consider a ripoff of pokemon is the extremely blatant "robopon",which I swear is just the pokemon gameboy game with different names and pictures pasted over the monsters.It has robots instead of flesh and blood critters,but the entire game is a mirror-image of pokemon...down to the music,graphics,menu layout,even the FONT! Cute monster cartoons have been around long before pokemon in japan,too,they just all hit the U.S. at once...

Of course im someone who doesnt even think of "antz" and "bugs life" as being ripoffs of eachother.

Point taken. Sometimes the NA media's ignorance spills over into the public's consciousness. I remember one guy called Sailor Moon (when it first came out) "a combination of Spice Girls and Power Rangers" even though Sailor Moon actually predated Spice Girls by a few years.

[RockItShipper]

Originally posted by Leap Larry Jojo


Point taken. Sometimes the NA media's ignorance spills over into the public's consciousness. I remember one guy called Sailor Moon (when it first came out) "a combination of Spice Girls and Power Rangers" even though Sailor Moon actually predated Spice Girls by a few years.

It's a bit of a fine line between a genre-starting show, like B:TAS, and subsequent shows produced by other studios, like Gargoyles. I definitely think Digimon is a 'different' approach to the monster-raising genre than Pokemon is, but it's very clear that it owes its presence on both Japanese and NA television to Pokemon's success.

[DR. BELCH]

--when you get the lawyers into it. Some editor or writer looks at a script/book/article and bawls "plagiarism!", and the doors of Gehenna swing open. I've seen and experienced it personally, and it gets ugly when the false charges and misunderstandings start getting slung around. People lose jobs; feelings are bruised; ugly grudges get held for years, lives are torn apart. I've mentioned Amistad and Spielberg's lips (slang for attourneys) working overtime to clear him of some obscure author's plagiarism charges. I still wonder how that mess was cleared up and settled out-of-court without seriously damaging Mr. Kate Capshaw's reputation. Back-room under-the-table deals? Lots of payoffs? Left-leaning politics and plenty of friends to share them? A few bodies in cement shoes dropped surreptitiously in the East River? We may never know.