Why do so many shows do a "time jump" when fans seldom like it?

[Wolf Boy2]

The three main offenders that come to my mind are Transformers (G-1), Batman: TAS and Death Note. They skip ahead and utilize new characters, but the time jump is almost ALWAYS the death knell for the series.

Transformers skipped ahead to 2005, killed Optimus Prime and most of the other major characters and established a new "future" cast. It ran for about 30 episodes.

The New Batman Adventures picked up two years after Batman: TAS ended, with more Batgirl, Nightwing and a new, younger Robin. But even worse, radically redesigned character models. TNBA is widely despised for its more shallow depiction of the villians, most notably Killer Croc. The unnecessary resurrection of the Matt Hagen Clayface is another point of controversy.

Death Note also skipped ahead, leaving some fine characters in their graves (I'm gonna be vague about Death Note because the English run hasn't finished yet), and establishing new heroes and villians. It ran for 10 more episodes, after the death of you-know-who.

Why do producers keep making the same mistakes over and over? I think history makes it clear ... FANS HATE TIME SKIPS.

[The Huntsman]

It’s not really a common occurrence; I don’t think you have to worry about it.

[Michael24]

The New Batman Adventures picked up two years after Batman: TAS ended, with more Batgirl, Nightwing and a new, younger Robin. But even worse, radically redesigned character models. TNBA is widely despised for its more shallow depiction of the villians, most notably Killer Croc. The unnecessary resurrection of the Matt Hagen Clayface is another point of controversy.

Well, The New Batman Adventures premiered two years after the last B:TAS episode, so it was only natural to have it set two years later. As for the character revamps, Timm and Co. were already working on Superman: The Animated Series using the new style so it was just carried over, plus it helped distinguish the news series from the previous one. Also, having Dick Grayson become Nightwing and introducing Tim Drake as the new Robin was a way to show the passage of time since the original series.

[Hordesman]

Because what happened in that time wasn't something the creator felt needed to be shown.

[Squall]

What about the modern TMNT, with TMNT: Fast Forward?

I would think that the jump from B:TAS/TNBA to Batman Beyond is much bigger than the jump from B:TAS to TNBA...

As for G1 Transformers, I can remember amongst all my childhood friends that we loved the advance to 2005, and all the new characters... as long as most of the old characters were around to interact with the new characters. (Well, the ones that didn't die in the movie, anyway!)

I think that it's just as much the writers as anything else, becoming bored with writing in the 'present' only, and wondering what the 'future', or 'past', of the characters and world they've designed would look like. Classic science fiction, really.

[Ian]

I don't think the number of cartoons with "time jumps" is large enough to justify concluding that "fans seldom like it"--particularly since you seem to be stacking the deck unfairly against it.

The New Batman Adventures picked up two years after Batman: TAS ended, with more Batgirl, Nightwing and a new, younger Robin. But even worse, radically redesigned character models. TNBA is widely despised [emphasis mine] for its more shallow depiction of the villians, most notably Killer Croc. The unnecessary resurrection of the Matt Hagen Clayface is another point of controversy.

Yes, I have seen people complain about the things you mention here. However, to use that to conclude that The New Batman Adventures is "widely despised" seems like a large stretch--you can easily find people who like the changes made. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; you have yet to provide any. Not to mention, I don't see what the complaints you mentioned have to do with the time gap between series--after all, it's not like making the series take place immediately after B:TAS would have magically made the art or writing different.

Personally, I like time gaps in cartoon--I find that they have great potential, and when done right, they enrich a cartoon and allow for things that might not be possible otherwise. In fact, part of the reason why I am so stoked for the new TMNT season is because it will include a one year gap between the turtles' departure to 2105 and their return: not only does it make it much easier to include a character whose introduction might be otherwise difficult (*cough* Shadow *cough*). It allows for the revitalization of characters whose storylines had pretty much panned out--if they do it well, at least.

That being said, I find that the time gap used between seasons in the Legion of Super-Heroes cartoon was for the most part a waste. We got some nifty new designs and a more experienced Superman, and that's it--the Legion was, for the most part, the same as we'd left it. I needed more, and the show didn't provide.

[Lavenderpaw]

Sometimes time jumps are necessary to further the plot along,like with Simba growing into an adult in The Lion King.Sometimes time jumps are contained in one episode and they can be kind of annoying,i.e. time travel episodes.Some people want to wait to find out who marries who. Plus,time travelling can mess up the space time continum or something like that.Time jumps,if they're absolutely essential for plot continuation,are fine.

[HellCat]

Time skips are only really negative in my opinion if they don't really contribute anything or add cliches. In terms of one off time travel, how many shows have done "Immature character meets their much more talented future self"? There's also the annoying time skip epilogue endings, where everyone has their character design stretched a few feet and apparently became a doctor.

One side effect can be that it throws the audience off balance. People get used to a certain status quo, you get a time skip and suddenly everything we've grown comfortable with no longer applies. Anime shows tend to be better at this, since they can use it to usher familiar characters into a lesser role if their own character arc is over and present us with new leads with a story to tell.

[FightingDreamer]

One side effect can be that it throws the audience off balance. People get used to a certain status quo, you get a time skip and suddenly everything we've grown comfortable with no longer applies. Anime shows tend to be better at this, since they can use it to usher familiar characters into a lesser role if their own character arc is over and present us with new leads with a story to tell.

This is true, although not even anime always gets it right (textbook example on how to get it wrong: Digimon Adventure 02's epilogue. I shouldn't have to elaborate). I think timeskips can work if the writers do something interesting with it and really shake up the status quo.

[Wolf Boy2]

Yes, I have seen people complain about the things you mention here. However, to use that to conclude that The New Batman Adventures is "widely despised" seems like a large stretch--you can easily find people who like the changes made. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; you have yet to provide any. Not to mention, I don't see what the complaints you mentioned have to do with the time gap between series--after all, it's not like making the series take place immediately after B:TAS would have magically made the art or writing different.

I worded that wrong. I meant to say that the depiction of villains was widely despised. Judging from fan reaction at the time and what people say on TZ, that seems pretty accurate. Heck, the changes to Poison Ivy (as well as some of the costume changes) were retconned/changed in the Batman Adventures comic because of this.

What about the modern TMNT, with TMNT: Fast Forward?

I've only seen the first episode of the modern TMNT. I'd like to see more, but I haven't gotten the chance yet.

I would think that the jump from B:TAS/TNBA to Batman Beyond is much bigger than the jump from B:TAS to TNBA...

It was a longer jump, but it gets less discussion than TNBA does. TNBA vs BTAS debate threads pop up on the DCAU board every few months or so.

As for G1 Transformers, I can remember amongst all my childhood friends that we loved the advance to 2005, and all the new characters... as long as most of the old characters were around to interact with the new characters. (Well, the ones that didn't die in the movie, anyway!)

Since I saw the movie before the series, the season 3 characters were the ones that really grabbed me. The childhood nostalgic connection to early G-1 Transformers doesn't exist for me, since I was born in 1987 and didn't see G-1 until I was 18 (in the year 2005, ironically). Season 3 had better character development, better storytelling and more continuity. Seasons 1 and 2 were mostly "OMG, the Decepticons are stealing energy again" plots.

In many of the above-mentioned cases, the episodes after the time jump were BETTER than the previous ones. But they seem have much shorter runs, like the 24 episodes of TNBA or the 10 episodes of post-skip Death Note.

Death Note actually rushed its ending even MORE than the already rushed manga version. Characters like Matt were shoved in and killed off so fast that I hardly knew who they were (I had to Wikipedia him to find out who had just been killed). Also the writers just got lazy and gave Near and Mello better clues than they had given Ryuzaki. What took L twenty episodes to figure out, Mello and Near deciphered in TWO.

For some reason, post-time skip episodes get either less writing quality or less episodes.

[HellCat]

I think the season 3 G1 Transformers were more well rounded characters but are mostly hated for how we were introduced to them. Just about anyone who went to see that movie likely went to see Optimus, Megatron, etc on the big screen. Then within the first half hour they're all killed off and you're told "This is your cast now, like it or lump it. Also, buy the toys".
What might have worked better is to have slowly introduced some of these characters in episodes before the movie, figure out who had the strength to support kids interest and then give them important roles/power ups/toys in the movie. It's a very bleak movie and almost comes to a screeching stop once you reach Prime's depressing death bed scene. But the commercial aspect of the movie doesn't acknowledge that and so it just keeps right on trucking, trying to convince you to buy a Hot Rod and a Kup and a Galvatron and a Wreck-Gar and... It's basically doing the opposite of what it was created to do, which was to make the audience bond through the characters through the story and go out and buy the related toys. It's like taking a kid's beloved pet dog, shooting it before their eyes and responding with "Here's your new pet kitty!" before you stroll off.

[Wolf Boy2]

It's like taking a kid's beloved pet dog, shooting it before their eyes and responding with "Here's your new pet kitty!" before you stroll off.

That is the best description of the G-1 movie I've ever heard. I swear to God.

The Marvel UK comics printed some really good stories that lead up to the movie and introducing the new characters, though also spoiling the death of Optimus Prime. I wish the cartoon had done something like this as well.

For example, Batman Beyond and BTAS. The Joker's death and Robin's mutilation was as important to that world as the death of Optimus was to Transformers. But instead of releasing ROTJ (the bridge between the shows) first, they waited until two years later before filling in the gaps. If G-1 had done this, started the 3rd season first and then released the movie later to fill in the blanks, it would've done far better.

I've seen people watch ROTJ after only having seen BTAS, and they were rather put off by it. They liked the final Joker battle, but had no emotional investment in Terry or the Batman Beyond world. Once the Joker keeled over, they didn't care about the story. EXACTLY the same way G-1 fans react to the death of Starscream. I say Starscream instead of Optimus because his death is pretty much the final bell for "classic" G-1.

I'm glad Bruce Timm didn't try and use a story like ROTJ as the Batman Beyond pilot.

[Infusions]

Yeah, I've always wondered what happened during that 1000 years Fry was frozen.

I wish they would've shown that instead of jumping to where Fry gets unfrozen and the show gets interesting.

[Wolf Boy2]

Yeah, I've always wondered what happened during that 1000 years Fry was frozen.

I wish they would've shown that instead of jumping to where Fry gets unfrozen and the show gets interesting.

You're talking about Futurama, right? That doesn't apply AT ALL.

Read the examples I gave. I'm talking about when existing shows do a time jump and create a new status quo that often lasts for less episodes or features a marked decrease in quality.

[The Huntsman]

Regardless, my point still stands that this isn’t a common occurrence. You’ve asked why so many shows do a time jump, but most shows don’t do a time jump. You’ve cited three examples of animated programs that have had a time jump, yet there are well over a thousand animated programs created in the past few decades that have not had a time jump.

Your thread makes it sound like its an epidemic, which it clearly isn’t.

[Rolling Cloud]

Read the examples I gave. I'm talking about when existing shows do a time jump and create a new status quo that often lasts for less episodes or features a marked decrease in quality.

Blood+ did a timeskip which lasted for the last 17 episodes. The writing quality of those eps. was vastly different and wasn't that good. ]=

[Racattack!Force]

These days, only 1 out of 150 cartoons do a time jump. 1 out of 200 if you don't count sequel series. Sure, those numbers are made up, but you get the idea.

[DawnWarrior]

Well, The New Batman Adventures premiered two years after the last B:TAS episode, so it was only natural to have it set two years later. As for the character revamps, Timm and Co. were already working on Superman: The Animated Series using the new style so it was just carried over, plus it helped distinguish the news series from the previous one. Also, having Dick Grayson become Nightwing and introducing Tim Drake as the new Robin was a way to show the passage of time since the original series.

Plus, it let us see Nightwing and Tim Drake Robin in animated form for the first time.

[tucsoncoyote]

Alright after reading all of this I have to put my two cents in about "Time skips", "Time Jumps", "Time Travel" and "Aging".

Now while some folks think "Time Skips" and "Time Jumps" are a bad thing. Think about a show that hasn't aged the characters in say a decade or two..(Need I remind folks about The Simpsons? Here is a prime example of where we see glimpse into the future, but nothing really major.. even after 19 seasons, Bart is still 10, Lisa is 8, Maggie is still in Diapers, Marge, Homer, Patty and Selma, don't have grey hair, and Abe Simpson isn't dead..

See this is what happens when you don't age folks..they eventually become old and stale, and in fact boring after 10 or even 15 years..

But then when done right, some time skips can tell a good back story, or even why a person became who they are..(Sure some folks think Kim Possible: A Sitch in Time, was a bit of a leap both backwards and forwards), but when you look at what Future Shego Said, about Kim and Ron, Don't know Don't care, but you two make a pretty good team.. so that's why I broke you up... You get this premonition of what will happen in the future, if that future did exist. (And with Graduation changing the outcomes yet again, well we all know what this might mean in a "Future Tense" sort of way Maybe Shego doesn't take over the world, Why? Cause she's happily hitched to Drakken and they have 2.3 kids.)

But then sometimes Time Skips and time Leaps are necessary... I mean let's take a look at Ben 10 and the Ben 10 Episode: Ben 10,000 and even Ben 10: Alien Force. Here you see three sides of the same characters.. Gwen is able to learn magic at 10, she's able to master it by 15, and by 30? She's a real magic user able to open portals into the past and maybe the future. Ben on the other hand has in a way gained and lost his own identity, and Grandpa Max? Well even though Max out suggests Max is Dead, I think the events of Ben 10,000 definitely show one potential event, an event that still might happen.

So are time skips bad? In some cases yes they are. But in some other examples they are not. It's only when character refuse to age, or not get older (and maybe wiser) that things get stale.

So I like to compare some shows that if they are good, and have good writing, they could actually "Age" with time..(who knows? Maybe 15 years from now we might see a new twist to Kim Possible as Ron and Kim are married, have a Kid (More than likely a boy or a girl, or both), and throw in Ron's baby Sister Hana. New twist on the old story idea.. where the Go getter and the active person is in fact the exact opposite to the name .

But still when you finally look at time jumps even large ones it makes you wonder.. what if They Had Aged the Simpsons.. and what if they Aged Family Guy? I mean Meg might become someone beautiful, Chirs might actually suddenly show a new interest in a new Hobby, and maybe Peter would die already..(All that blubber can't be good for a guy's heart..

But still in closing..are all time skips bad? Not always.. But then you have to look at all the options here.. Which would you rather see.. People aging? or not? Because already I can tell you I don't watch the Simpsons anymore.. They're still the same age.. Meanwhile.. everyone else has grown up, and moved on.. Nuff said..

[Lavenderpaw]

So are time skips bad? In some cases yes they are. But in some other examples they are not. It's only when character refuse to age, or not get older (and maybe wiser) that things get stale.

The fountain of youth effect,huh?I remember watching FOP's Channel Chasers where Timmy escaped into TV to literally live out his youth in these shows so he doesn't have to grow up.That's just about where FOP flew south.