jumptheshark.com

[Calhoun07]

Has anybody seen this great website? I forgot about it (it was something I lost when my computer died on me a few months ago) but saw a story about it on msn.com. They have people post opinions on there when great shows become bad, and "jump the shark," or avoid getting cancelled. It is a great site and worth checking out.

[The Mad Hatter]

Yup, it's a neat place. The site was mentioned months ago on the ole WBC site, and it sparked some great debate. Could the same happen here? (Unless it's over the Simpsons' decline, which is more or less beating a dead horse. )

Actually, while I'm thinking about it I've got a question for you (and anyone else this applies to). I should say that I PROMISE this is meant to be friendly and sparked only out of curiosity. Anyway, I'm wondering what you like about Family Guy and what you don't like about the latest seasons of the Simpsons. One of the most common complants I've heard about the latest episodes of the Simpsons is that they're too taken with random zaniness and edgy gross-outs... the same thing that these same people don't like about Family Guy. So, what's the difference?

[Calhoun07]

Maybe it is a question of conditioning, not content. Let me explain! The Simpsons set a pretty high standard that the current episodes are being jugded by. I don't mean I have a lower standard for Family Guy, as I think what Family Guy does is different from the Simpsons.

I adamately refute any comparison to Family Guy and the Simpsons. People say, Oh, the dad is acting stupid so they must be making him like Homer Simpsons. Well, Ralph Kramden was doing that YEARS before when TV was just brand new. The dim witted father figure did not start with the Simpsons, I am sorry to burst all your bubbles, just as animated comedies did not start with the Simpsons. To compare prime time animation to the Simpsons is natural I guess, but just as ignorant in my book as people who stereotype animation at the theater and feel a knee jerk need to compare everything everybody else is doing to Disney. I watch Family Guy because I like Family Guy, not because I feel the need to find something that is like the Simpsons.

Getting back to the Simpsons, they have lowered that bar of high standards the past couple seasons, and this past season went right down the toilet. I was a faithful viewer until just a few months ago when I felt the show was beyond redemption. I hope to all that the 12th season will improve, and I will watch it, but if it doesn't improve, I am done with the show.

Family Guy is still young enough to be fresh, in my opinion. I don't think this series could go on for years and years like the Simpsons did, as I believe it would run out of steam rather quickly. I know there are those who read this board who feel that already happened, but for those of us who like the show (and I guess I can only speak for myself) I like the bit comedy pieces they put into the show. The humor of the show is just something I can't quite tell you why I like it (sorry, I guess I am not a great reviewer of TV shows after all), but I don't watch the show comparing it to the Simpsons. I guess if you do and then you don't like it, that's your choice, but don't complain about people who pre judge animated movies becuase they are expecting another Disney style movie.

[killercroc]

Originally posted by calhoun07
Has anybody seen this great website? I forgot about it (it was something I lost when my computer died on me a few months ago) but saw a story about it on msn.com. They have people post opinions on there when great shows become bad, and "jump the shark," or avoid getting cancelled. It is a great site and worth checking out.

Beware the McGinley curse!

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by calhoun07
Maybe it is a question of conditioning, not content.

It's all summed up RIGHT there! Well put and to the point. I agree!

In addition, what I think we have here are two groups of people. Those who became Simpsons fans because they look for only the Family Guy type stuff where the characters do stupid tricks for laughs, and those attracted to The Simpsons for the amazing characters that flow steadily through each story on every episode (well, except on Holloween, a holiday in which anything goes! Muahahahaa!). In recent seasons, The Simpsons went slightly below the unbelievably high standard only it had the ability and height to reach. And that's when the two sides got ugly.

What side am I on? Well I got into the Simpsons for BOTH reasons, but with one exception. I love funny, and I love silly, but for me to watch a show as regularly and religiously as I have with The Simpsons of the past, I have to relate to and really like the show's characters.

An example of this within myself that I found is in the episodes that relied on regular comedy instead of comedy by means of the characters we loved, I found I didn't mind much if I missed episodes. And of those lesser seasons, I've missed a few.

[Scythemantis]

I like silliness too.But to me,its just the plots in the simpsons that have been lacking lately

[The Mad Hatter]

To Calhoun:

Ah, I see... the Simpsons is bad because it's fallen so far. I can understand that argument, but I still think it's a little more harsh than the Simpsons deserves. True, it's fallen far, but it's still more entertaining than 95% of the other primetime comedies. So I'm dissapointed as well, but I still try to enjoy what's left (even if we have gotten some groaners like that whole jockey/troll thing... yech).

And as far as you saying that Family Guy's comparison to the Simpsons isn't fair... you're absolutely right. The Simpsons is only one of the many cartoons that show, um, "borrows" from.

[Calhoun07]

I disagree that the Simpsons is better than 95% of the other shows on TV. While I may not watch a great deal of prime time comedies, I have seen enough to know that the current run of the Simpsons is just too awful to think about. It maybe better than 95% of the other shows you see, but as far as I am concerned, Simpsons is in the worst 96% of television today. There is something to be said for TV shows that bow out while still on top and leave the air with their dignity in tact. Of course, Fox and dignity are oxymorons anyway, so what else could I expect?

What does Family Guy borrow from the Simpsons? I just want to know your opinions, because ALL the criticisms I have read about Family Guy say that it rips off the Simpsons because it has a dumb dad and kids. A dumb dad and kids is a formula in comedies on TV that goes back to the beginning, and probably even back to radio, and vaudville, and you could go on. It's all for slapstick. Sorry if Family Guy doesn't meet the high standards of the guild of quality animation, or whatever is setting the standards by which this show is judged, but there is nothing wrong with enjoying a good show for slap stick. What is wrong with liking a show just because it makes you laugh? There aren't enough of them out there! And Family Guy makes me laugh much more than the current run of the Simpsons.

I don't really want to get in a flame war, of course, so let's just kinda diplomatically agree to disagree on this one. It's just a matter of personal taste anyway. The earth isn't going to rocket out of orbit one way or another if either Family Guy or the Simpsons survive on prime time TV.

[The Mad Hatter]

Oh dear. I meant my comment to let you know that I have thought about it, and that I wasn't just doing the usual knee-jerk reaction to it that you're used to. I apologize about that.

Anyway, first of all, I never said that the show was like the Simpsons just because the dads are similar. True, both Homer and Peter are very, very close on the big stupid fat guy archeatype spectrum, and as it stands I don't think that Peter is portrayed as sympathetic as Homer, Homer's recent jerkiness nonwithstanding. But that's not what gets me.

Now, the way I feel Family Guy rips off the Simpsons is twofold. First, there's the structure of the show itself. The Simpsons pioneered the tangental school of TV comedy. At unexpected times, the show veers away from the plot on a tangent (usually when remembering past events) to go to something completely random and funny, then cut back to the plot. It's funny in part because it's unexpected.

Normally, I wouldn't complain that a show adopts this structure, as, in the right hands (like in Futurama) it's done very well. However, Family Guy manages to botch this horribly. Mainly, because the entire show revolves around regularly scheduled tangents. Problem is, besides the fact that I don't think Family Guy's tangents are nearly as well executed as the Simpsons, the fact that the tangents come at regular intervals is that you come to EXPECT these random moments of wackiness, and can start to time them. After three episodes, I was able to predict tangents with less than ten second's error. You lose the unexpected factor, you lose the humor. And ruining a great innovation annoys me, just like the Simpsons' fall from grace offends you. (Which, again, I have no problem with.)

The second thing Family Guy rips off from the Simpsons are entire jokes. Okay, remember in the Simpsons (I forget which episode) when Marge asks Homer if he remembers an event exactly, and Homer says sure. Then we see inside Homer's mind, and he's remembering the event with all sorts of weird random things going on (Homer's muscular, Marge's hair is green, some guy has two heads, etc.). It was unexpected, and they hung on the scene for EXACTLY the right amout of time before it got lame.

Which brings us to the first episode of Family Guy I ever saw. Whatserface (you know, the wife with no personality) asks Peter how he remembers an event, which was a trip to a Chuck E. Cheese place or somesuch. And then we see in Peter's mind, and he's seeing all sorts of crazy stuff in there too, with the proprietor being a vampire, and Peter eventually turning into the Incredible Hulk. Not only was the joke stolen, but it was horribly botched, as it dragged on for three times as long as the Simpsons' version, at which point it utterly ceased being funny. And that wasn't the only one. Within the three episodes I saw (which is the minimum number you must see before you can truly judge a show), there were other jokes stolen piecemeal.

Which brings me to another point: Family Guy steals from a LOT of cartoons. The Simpsons is only the most obvious. They try (and, largely, fail) to emulate the shock factor of South Park, and I was struck at the time by a joke stolen directly from that show as well. The episode where they had that thing making fun of William Shatner (and was driven completely into the ground, I might add) was done exactly in the style of the William Shatner parodies in Animaniacs. I remember seeing a butt joke nicked intact from Cow and Chicken. I remember a dadaesque moment stolen from Freakazoid. The entire character of Stewie was stolen from an underground comic character. And on, and on, and on.

Yes, comedy is borrowed from comic to comic and show to show, but Family Guy is extrordinarily shameless in stealing many, many bits intact, not to mention that the entire show relies on these stolen bits and doesn't innovate squat. So that's why the Family Guy has managed to earn the distinction of being the only show, repeat, the ONLY show that I actively loathe and whose mere existance manages to offend me (usually I can just ignore bad shows like Pokemon or Los Luchadores)--plagarism. Not lack of quality, because I've enjoyed my fair share of mediocre stuff. Plagarism.

And please, don't take anything I said out of context... I don't hate, or think less of anyone who likes Family Guy, yourself included. I'll never belittle anyone because of that. I absolutely respect your opinions. The only thing I'll ever speak badly of in this is the show itself.

[Calhoun07]

Mad Hatter, I never said you have knee jerk reactions. Most people do when it comes to pre judging animation, but those people don't hang out on these boards, so those comments are directed to nobody here. Those comments are for the average joe out there who thinks everything animated, including South Park, is hunky dory for his kiddies to watch because he's been led to believe via countless Disney movies that animation in America is harmelss and sanitized.

Also, I didn't say that the criticisms about Family Guy being similar to the Simpsons because of the family structure was yours. Those have been criticisms I have read elsewhere, not on this board. Nothing was directed to you!

In reply to your points on Family Guy, I guess I never picked up on the lifted material. It is just a show I like to watch because it makes me laugh. So sue me. Sometimes mindless drivel is ok, in moderation.

[The Mad Hatter]

Woops, I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought you thought I was posting knee-jerk reactions... I only mentioned them because you seem to have encountered a lot of them on various boards, and wanted to reiterate that you're right... it's unfair and knee-jerk to say that Family Guy is a Simpsons ripoff simply because both shows have fat, goofy fathers. I try to give a little thought to my irrational predjudices.

And you're right... I'd probably have enjoyed Family Guy a lot more if I weren't so familiar with the source material.

Wow, intense debate with no sign of a flame war in sight... I love this place.