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  1. #1
    ClockStomper's Avatar
    ClockStomper is offline One who loves naked Kagome
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    Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles "Secret Origins Part 2" Talkback (Spoilers)

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    EPISODE THIRTY THREE



    "Secret Origins" Part Two



    Story Editor: Lloyd Goldfine



    Senior Supervising Director: Chuck Patton



    Written by Michael Ryan




    The second matrix time travel-lious episode. Michael ryan's writing, so the dialouge should be better in this part (a couple of the writers make Mikey more annoying than funny.) Anyhoo, Discuss...

    News for fans of the old cartoon:

    http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=1010

    Last edited by ClockStomper; 02-29-2004 at 04:54 PM.

    Television Blows. So enjoy it.



    "I imagine this will be the last time we speak..." David Palmer to a fugitive Jack Bauer in last year's season finale.

    "Allow me to put on my analrapy stocking for just a second..."-Tobias Funke, analrapist, on his new branch of psychology mixing analysis and therapy.

  2. #2
    Duke's Avatar
    Duke is offline Truer Words Were Never Spoken
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    The Utrom's security system sucks. The need the Sloman Shield.

    Did Raph just break that hologram's wrist?

    This bamboo fighting reminds me of Samurai Jack.

    I like how they're using Ninja abilities in this new cartoon.

    The origin of the Tengu sword.

    This doesn't make sense, how does the Utrom machine know all this crap?

    I like how they say they can die, not pass away or be destroyed.

    I wanna know how Leo's bamboo fits in his sword cases.

    OK, now I'm getting vibes from the 3rd Turtles Movie.

    Yay! They called the Turtles Kappa!

    Ancient Guardians, cool.

    Damn, whoever's controlling Stockman is really establishing his place.

    And nobody else in NYC is noticing the Apache.

    Well, now we know how the Turtles escape, the internal failsafe.

    Ancient Mortu. Their exoskeletons haven't changed in 400 years...

    Damn, Shredder looks even more badass, if that's possible.

    God, now there's gonna be even MORE "Shredder is Krang!" stuff.

    Hehe, I like that trick Leo did.

    Is it me, or is the Tengu here more powerful than in Season 1?

    God, Matrix references, what next?

    I do like how Shredder only kept his most powerful Ninja, not his normal Foot.

    Well, the preview sounds awesome, and it seems like he may not be a Utrom.

    Also, I just noticed, the Elite Ninja have the same weapons as Shredder's enemies in the VR pods.
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  3. #3
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    Nice story. So Shredder is officially an Utrom now. Although it may be a let down to some, I'm anxious to see what they do with this, because next week's episode looks AWESOME. The Sword of Tengu rocked the house as well. So next week looks like it will be an episode to remember.

  4. #4
    Thanos's Avatar
    Thanos is offline The Mad Titan
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    Cool action. Good dialogue. Great story.
    "You get the other guy on the ropes. You keep him there. You mangle his ears. Fill his eyes with blood. Pulp his kidneys. Grind up his ribs. Don't let up. And if he still won't hit the canvas--you go on and bleed him to death."- Frank Castle

  5. #5
    SirLemming is offline a playa in a world of NPCs
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    I have something to tell you! This episode was-- *Shredder interrupts*

    The world is an illusion! All you have to do is-- *Shredder interrupts*

    Before you leave, let me tell you that-- *transporter interrupts*


    Anyway... What we know for sure now is that "Shredder is an--"... in other words, whatever he is, it begins with a vowel.
    THINGS THAT SHREDDER COULD BE:
    android
    elephant
    Indian
    orthodontist
    Utrom

    I'm guessing it's the last one.
    THE CASTLE OF SIR LEMMING
    THIS MONTH'S UPDATE: Christmas Countdown! 25 Christmas songs of interest.

  6. #6
    Duke's Avatar
    Duke is offline Truer Words Were Never Spoken
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirLemming
    THINGS THAT SHREDDER COULD BE:
    android
    elephant
    Indian
    orthodontist
    Utrom

    I'm guessing it's the last one.
    I'm guessing orthodontist. Oroku Saki does have perfect teeth, after all.
    Spubman: Defender of the Way of the Spub's Thingy of the Time Being:
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  7. #7
    Slane is offline Member
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    Duke: What makes you think Shredder isn't a Utrom? The possibility he isn't a brain-alien still has some good evidence (the clones, a certain character appearing soon that may or may not have something to do with something in this episode...I'll say something about that in a moment...), but this episode for me just is cementing the Shredder-Utrom theory. This episode did not show us the red Utrom, meaning that the writers are still building us up for that surprise. Some may argue that such an idea would be too obvious and that the turtles should be putting two and two together right now to at least, like many of us viewers do, think that Shredder is a Utrom, but their mental abilities have not been missing some important points; the continuous "It's virtual reality!" realizations they were having when they were trying to eat the food, or fight the red Utrom, or fight the Foot before they materialized into the virtual reality at least suggests the turtles may have just not thought the red Utrom is Shredder, so the writers may actually make the Shredder a Utrom and use all the turtles' ignorance to validate this plot twist.

    Whew! Too many long sentences!

    Spoiler:
    In this episode, they made of point of showing us a young lady and what looked to be her younger brother; Don, I believe, actually applauded her fighting abilities. Some have already said this is similar to TMNT III, the entire sister/little brother relationship we saw in that film, but what if the two were actually a young Saki and Karai? Karai will be appearing later in the season, and from what I read in these threads she is supposed to be the Shredder's sister [thanks Skeeter ]; perhaps the writers are doing that theory that has been going around, that the Saki was attacked by the red Utrom Shredder and, upon finding him to be the little brain alien, vowed vengeance against all Utroms. Part of this theory also suggests Saki found immortality in order to live forever to fight the Utroms, which could explain how his head was cut off, but how would Karai live forever? Maybe she made the same deal?


    Another long block of writing...

    It was also nice to see a change in the Stockman/Shredder partnership; after all, how would Stockman and Shredder be willing to work together again after their "falling out" in Return to New York? It makes sense that Shredder would rely on him for the technological input, and the writers did a good job of establishing this partnership; plus, it's funny to see Stockman getting electrocuted for his pride.
    Last edited by Slane; 01-24-2004 at 02:29 PM.

  8. #8
    Simpler Simon's Avatar
    Simpler Simon is offline Always in Style
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    So it's going to take till the very last episode for the Turtles to realize that Shredder isn't what he seems? I'm not against Shredder being an Utrom, but I hope this isn't the big surprise the writers have planned, because it shouldn't take three episodes for the main characters to catch up with what the audience already knows.

    Otherwise, this was another decent but unspectacular episode. They were a bit rougher with the bamboo fighting I found, since bamboos dont have sharp edges like swords. The kappa comment brings back memories of TMNT III. And the Neo comment was actually prety clever.

    But there weren't any big revelations this time around. Baxter's employer can only be the Shredder, which should really make absolutely no sense, but it has to because Shredder is the only one who can screw with Utrom technology. And the general's voice-acting was again really bad (though I found the Apache pilot quite realistic).

    So who was that warrior woman? Karai? (sp)

    Are the guardians Utroms or not? They wear Utrom medallions, but Utrom exoskeleton technology cant have progressed too far yet if Mortu is still walking around in only robes.

    3.5 stars.

  9. #9
    RZetlin is offline Banned
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    I'm a little disappointed that Baxter Stockman is working Shredder. I wonder how the Shredder and Baxter kissed and made up?

    There's that Matrix in-joke by calling Leo, "Neo".

    Next episode is going to be interesting when the Utroms have to face off against the Shredder and the Earth Security Forces.


  10. #10
    Sharklady's Avatar
    Sharklady is offline Senior Member
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    > So Shredder is officially an Utrom now. <

    Not quite- it still hasn't been said outright.

    All these interrupted-sentence teasers do strongly imply Shredder is a Utrom. But it could still turn out that the writers are sneakily building up that expectation only for the purpose of dashing it.

    I guess we'll find out next week.

  11. #11
    Duke's Avatar
    Duke is offline Truer Words Were Never Spoken
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    Perhaps Shredder is a human who is working with the Utrom and gained the secret of immortality. Perhaps the Utrom fused himself to a human Shredder. Perhaps the Shredder really is a supernatural god-like guy, and used the red Utrom to gain access to all this cool technology and stuff.

    And I doubt Baxter & Shredder made up. Shredder wanted Baxter's expertise and since he's only a head now, is able to get into the Utrom's base undetected. Also, Shredder does whatever he wants, remember?
    Spubman: Defender of the Way of the Spub's Thingy of the Time Being:
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  12. #12
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    OK, they should've just come out and said Shredder was an Ultrom, but if that does turn out to be the big surprise the writers had in store, I'll be a little disappointed.

  13. #13
    Slane is offline Member
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    Simple Simon: I don't think the Guardians are Utroms, which makes me so happy! Like I said last week, making the Guardians Utroms is liking making the Shredder a Utrom: it just isn't the same as having a natural human being able to master fighting abilities so well without the aid of mechanics. It would figure the Utroms worked with the Guardians; they needed humans to gain them access to our civilization and our technology.

    RZetlin: As Duke said, the reason Stockman and Shredder are working together is not necessarily a mutual one; Stockman lost against Shredder, and now Stockman needs Shredder in order to stay alive (or else be fried).

  14. #14
    Space Cadet's Avatar
    Space Cadet is offline I'M SWEATING
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    A nice episode. I'm still surprised that Fox allowed Stockman's head to be walking around. It seems Fox's BS&P allow decapitation in children's cartoons, as long as you can't see it.

  15. #15
    Ian's Avatar
    Ian
    Ian is offline ¡Mierda santa! ¡Ninjas!
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    Yeah, but why leave Baxter alive at all? I mean, assuming they found him a short while after his "death", they'd have no reason to keep him, a treacherous fool, alive, especially since the whole operation was planned in less than twelve hours. And the fact that he still needs Stockman seems to indicate he's not an Utrom. I mean, he obviously knows the tech enough to sabotage it, and he most definetely has the means of infiltrating the building without him, so why use him?

    Oh, and here's my longish review of the whole thing.

    Yay, the guards have "real" guns (or as real as we'll see here, anyway)!

    Anyways, is it just me, or is this thing getting a lot more confusing? First of all, we have the incompetent guardians, who fail to appear when Saki attacked the Utroms last episode. Also, if the virtual enviroment is made based on Utrom memory, how could they record anything that happened before the Guardians appeared, including the whole Shredder gets his weapon scene? Also, if the Shredder turns out to be an Utrom, how would MorpheusMortu know? I mean, I assume that the raid we saw last episode was the first one, and we know that no time-jumps happened since. If so, where was it all revealed? How could they know?

    Also, is it just me, or was very little actually revealed in the episode? Sure, we got to see the guardians, but not how they met the Utroms. And sure, we get to see the Sword of Tengu, but we don't get to see why Saki decided to make one (even though by all rights we shouldn't be able to see it, but, if the writers can break the rules...). The fighting girl was interesting, though. Did anyone catch her name?

    Also, it looks like the Shredder's identity is going to be revealed next week, and it looks to be a disapointment. Ironically enough, the fact that they almost said it today makes me hope even more that the Utrom is a red herring. The writers can't be so stupid as to expect it to surprise us, especially when they all but told us his secret this episode.

    Also, I'm dissapointed that Saki already got back with The Foot. I was kinda hoping that they'd remain separate entities for a more comic book-like "City at War". But it seems that it's not to be, since they're back, and apparently with the knowledge that they're dealing with something less (or more) than human, and they seem to be fine with it. Unless the relatively limited amount of Foot Ninjas present means that they and Saki had a falling out, I don't see how they'll manage to keep "City at War" accurate.

    Anyways, here's the stuff I liked about the episode.

    1) The more hands-on weapon contact. I like how they're using the camera to see people actually using the weapons on people.

    2) Feudal Foot-another winning design for the Foot Clan. I wonder who their costumemaker is.

    3) Ninja Girl-I wonder what her importance is. Either way, she's cool.

    4) "I present to you Neo, I mean, Leo".

    5) The whole "it's still virtual reality, with all that entrails ". While it was unnecesary in the first episode, it served it's purpose in this one.

    6) The turtles as Kappa demons. Me like.

    7) Mortu talking from his body while the exosuit remains still.

    8) Real guns!

    9) The Shredders reappearance. I really wasn't expecting him to appear in this story, although it makes sense.

    10) The National Guards role in the story. I just liked seeing them there.

    Stuff I didn't like:

    1) Baxter working for the Shredder, again. I'd need a really good explanation for this, especially since The Shredder wouldn't know he'd need him until eight hours ago.

    2) The Shredder working with the Foot as if nothing had happened during "Return to New York".

    3) The turtles using improvised weapons, again. It's what, the third time in seven episodes?

    4) How little was actually revealed in this episode. It all served to make more questions than it answered.

    Oh, and they meant to say: "Shredder is an --"old homey of ours" .

    Seriously, though, it could still be "an immortal".
    Last edited by Ian; 01-24-2004 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Last week, not yesterday.

  16. #16
    Skeeter's Avatar
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    Spoiler:
    but what if the two were actually a young Saki and Karai? Karai will be appearing later in the season, and from what I read in these threads she is supposed to be the Shredder's brother
    Um, how can Karai be that? She's a woman.

    -Skeeter
    Sometimes everything that you try isn't enough to change the world. Sometimes your greatest triumphs lead directly to your downfall. But when you open your heart to someone else, and you change each other, then whatever may come, you are unlimited.

  17. #17
    Duke's Avatar
    Duke is offline Truer Words Were Never Spoken
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    As for why Shredder is still with the Foot, all that was shown were the 4 Elite Ninjas and a few Cyber-Tech Ninjas. Most of the Foot was MIA.
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  18. #18
    Ian's Avatar
    Ian
    Ian is offline ¡Mierda santa! ¡Ninjas!
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    Yeah, I know; I mentioned it in the post. Still, is it because of a falling out (which doesn't explain Hun's presence, since he'd be the leader of whatever remains of the Foot) or because it was a hastily planned operation?

  19. #19
    Anarky's Avatar
    Anarky is offline Team Conan
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    great, another 7 days before absolute confirmation

    again, there's strong implications that the Shredder and the red utrom are one.

    i'm waiting for the twist.

    one question: was that lady Karai? If so, that kid may have been Oroku Saki
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  20. #20
    Slane is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter
    Um, how can Karai be that? She's a woman.

    -Skeeter
    Jeez, can't someone make a mistake? Sorry about that; I meant "sister." Off to edit.

    Big Bad: When the turtles had the bamboo weapons, I kept screaming, "You knocked the swords out of the Foot's hands! Leo, forget the freaking bamboo and take the swords!" Bamboo may have been appropriate replacement for Don's bo, but I don't know if Raph had any alternative; maybe he knows some remidial swordplay, but probably not enough to contend with trained ninjas.

    Also, the name of the female fighter is Hone, as said by the elderly man; I still like my theory, but the difference in name is clouding it.

    Slane's blog: Barely updated...


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