Toonami Helped Kill My Love of Anime

[Mad Mary Kidd]

This is sort of an excuse as to why I'm so harsh on the "He-Man sux! More Zoids" people on the He-Man thread.

There were two things that killed my love of anime and its respectability in my eyes: my loophole campus friends who ONLY watched romantic comedies or sentai series, and Toonami. Maybe it's just me, but after Big O, none of the series were appealing. The novelty of war dramas with big mechas (Gundam series) wore off, and I NEVER liked DBZ--the animation was choppy, and it just seemed to be three episodes of fights for every one episode of plot. Blue Submarine #6 was okay, but it was hindered by feeling too compacted into its short length and by the most obnoxious heroine this side of Tenchi. Please don't get me started on Tenchi--sci-fi trappings aside, it's just another teeth-grittingly obnoxious romantic comedy. And maybe this is a little judgmental of me, but something about the clash of CGI & cel animation in Zoids is off-putting. And finally, I'm sick to death of Ocean Group--about one in six dubbed shows bothers to hire Californian VAs, and with a few exceptions, a lot of Ocean Group's actors have limited range.

When Adult Swim started to run Cowboy Bebop, I decided that was it. Even the shows for AS Action seem like Toonami shows (not just the ones that were), and they completely lost their appeal for me. Yeah, anime can be very, very good. But between the slim pickin's offered for people with limited budgets (like me) and the typical otaku attitude (that anime is a gift from on high for the initiated and that Western animation is but a pale shell of this divine present) that's been attached to some of the more mediocre offerings on Toonami, I've lost all respect for anime. I lost more than just respect for anime fans, too, and I've long come to believe that their attitude is what made the block unwatchable for so long. Now that we have a non-WB animated show, they're all crying out for its removal from their stunted idea of what Toonami is (which is a showcase for action-adventure cartoons), and it just annoys the heck out of me.

I had to get this off my chest. If I have to enter one more thread to discuss the only show I've liked a lot on Toonami in a good year or so and some kid starts whining about how they can't watch Zoids or Armada or DBZ, I will be completely miserable.

[Masamune2052]

Too bad that these events happened because there's a lot of good stuff out there.

[Charred Knight]

Originally posted by Mad Mary Kidd
This is sort of an excuse as to why I'm so harsh on the "He-Man sux! More Zoids" people on the He-Man thread.

There were two things that killed my love of anime and its respectability in my eyes: my loophole campus friends who ONLY watched romantic comedies or sentai series, and Toonami. Maybe it's just me, but after Big O, none of the series were appealing. The novelty of war dramas with big mechas (Gundam series) wore off, and I NEVER liked DBZ--the animation was choppy, and it just seemed to be three episodes of fights for every one episode of plot. Blue Submarine #6 was okay, but it was hindered by feeling too compacted into its short length and by the most obnoxious heroine this side of Tenchi. Please don't get me started on Tenchi--sci-fi trappings aside, it's just another teeth-grittingly obnoxious romantic comedy. And maybe this is a little judgmental of me, but something about the clash of CGI & cel animation in Zoids is off-putting. And finally, I'm sick to death of Ocean Group--about one in six dubbed shows bothers to hire Californian VAs, and with a few exceptions, a lot of Ocean Group's actors have limited range.

When Adult Swim started to run Cowboy Bebop, I decided that was it. Even the shows for AS Action seem like Toonami shows (not just the ones that were), and they completely lost their appeal for me. Yeah, anime can be very, very good. But between the slim pickin's offered for people with limited budgets (like me) and the typical otaku attitude (that anime is a gift from on high for the initiated and that Western animation is but a pale shell of this divine present) that's been attached to some of the more mediocre offerings on Toonami, I've lost all respect for anime. I lost more than just respect for anime fans, too, and I've long come to believe that their attitude is what made the block unwatchable for so long. Now that we have a non-WB animated show, they're all crying out for its removal from their stunted idea of what Toonami is (which is a showcase for action-adventure cartoons), and it just annoys the heck out of me.

I had to get this off my chest. If I have to enter one more thread to discuss the only show I've liked a lot on Toonami in a good year or so and some kid starts whining about how they can't watch Zoids or Armada or DBZ, I will be completely miserable.

1. He-man is more popular than Armada here, and is in fact loved by the Majority of people here. Your just whining about the fact that everyone doesn' like what you like.
2. A lot of shows are dubbed in California, in fact Animaze is one of the most popular VA studios to use. CB, OS, TM, almost all of the Gundam OVAs, and Big O! were done by California actors.
3. You never liked anime to began with. Liking one anime show does not make you an anime fan. It goes into the category of liking that one show.
4. Armada is one of the most hatred shows here since Hamtaro.

[Mynd Hed]

Well, I'm glad to hear that you liked The Big O at least, as in my opinion it's one of the most high-quality animated programs ever to appear on American television, even in censored form.

But I wouldn't say that Toonami killed your love of anime. You don't like the anime they show on Cartoon Network other than The Big O and Cowboy Bebop? Hey, no big deal, neither do I, but I still like anime in general just fine.

Don't let Toonami sour you on all anime. There's a LOT more out there than what they show on Cartoon Network. It's a pity if you don't have the greenage to buy the DVDs-- lots of us don't-- but keep an open mind. Cartoon Network has a lot of new acquisitions coming up next year, and hopefully one of them will tickle your fancy a little more than their current offerings. And if they don't, well, there's still TechTV, the International Channel, and The Anime Network. Hopefully one, two, or even all three is in your area or will come to your area soon, so that you can take a look at what they have to offer. There's also rental, that's a cheap alternative to buying DVDs and you can often find some good stuff up for rent depending on where you are.

[Mad Mary Kidd]

Originally posted by Mynd Hed
But I wouldn't say that Toonami killed your love of anime. You don't like the anime they show on Cartoon Network other than The Big O and Cowboy Bebop? Hey, no big deal, neither do I, but I still like anime in general just fine.

That's it--I liked a lot of early Toonami anime: the old shows like Robotech & Voltron, Sailor Moon, Gundam Wing, Outlaw Star... Big O and Cowboy Bebop were a sort of cut-off group. I saw a lot of shojo anime with my loophole friends, too: Utena (which I loved & makes them cringe), Fushigi Yuugi (which they loved & makes me cringe), and pretty much anything by Clamp. I like the older stuff more, and simce I heard that the Lupin III series might come to CN, I'm interested--a little. It's not like the offerings on network TV were much better than Toonami, anyway, and don't ask me why, but I'm not optimistic about Tech TV's block.

Oh, and Charred Knight, try reading my message before responding to it. You didn't address a stinkin' thing I talked about in any way related to it, and I can only assume you're a Skiptastic-esque troll with a similarly miniscule brain pan. Welcome to the killfile, little boy.

And Animaze is JUST as overexposed as Ocean Group and JUST as limited in range and JUST as annoying in their overabundance. I just didn't know that group had a particular name.

[Zechs]

You can read manga. Most of the time it's better than the anime because it gets more into the storyline and you are not limted to the stuff they play on T.V. or anime itself. All in all don't let one think kill your love of something. That would be like me saying the radio killed my love of music when all I have to do is go out look of CDs that I like.

[Masamune2052]

Originally posted by Mad Mary Kidd
Oh, and Charred Knight, try reading my message before responding to it. You didn't address a stinkin' thing I talked about in any way related to it, and I can only assume you're a Skiptastic-esque troll with a similarly miniscule brain pan. Welcome to the killfile, little boy.

Ooo, that was uneccesarily harsh. Anyways, your not that old yourself, 'kid'.

Oh yah, Lupin is coming to Adult Swim when it goes to weeknights, more info here. On topic, of course your not going to see the best of the best on T.V., you've got to go out and get it. Borrow it from friends, rent it (if possible), or just cave in and buy it like me since I'm the friend everyone borrows from. Or you can do what Zechs said, which I'm going to do with Inu Yasha, and buy the magna. Most people who read it agree it's much better than the anime concerning certain series.

[BrundelFly]

It sounds like to me you just havn't been exposed to enough anime or the culture of the people that really love it but don't get off on a power trip over it.

There is a big group of people out there (including myself) that really enjoy old school animes that are intellectually stimulating. From what I'm picking up, you've grown tired of animes that don't do anything more than either present a sappy love story or focus on crap being blown up. You need to return to anime's roots if you want to get your interest in it started again, with emphasis on the IF.

There was an entire era of anime fandom in America alone that existed BEFORE Toonami. People were digging Robotech and other titles (the most famous one is Ramna 1/2) in the 80's before the concept of Cartoon Network was even popped out of somebody's brain. Toonami has done a lot for anime, but mostly for the newer generation of anime fans. For anybody that enjoyed anime prior to Toonami or titles that were well established before Toonami came to be, Toonami just hasn't done much.

If you know you liked titles like Robotech, then start researching titles from the same era. Anime has changed a lot in the past 20 years. Perhaps you would enjoy Macross, Super Dimensional Cavalry: Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber MOSPEADA (the original 3 series that made up Robotech). I'm tried of people blaming Toonami as if it has hurt the anime community. If you were destined to not like anime, the existence of Toonami wouldn't have made a difference.

Care enough to do the research and to hunt out animes that you think you might like and DON'T give up when you find some you that you don't like. But to just care enough to make threads like this is somewhat pathetic. I'm sorry but it's just a pointless exhaustion of energy, AKA "whining".

I'm not coming down on you or anything. I've been a fan of anime since I saw Tekknoman when I was maybe 5 years old. I didn't realize what anime was until years later. Most of the anime fans I have talked to have some sort of experience in their lives that are similiar to this. Some event that made anime part of a very important memory. These are the kind of people you need to be seaking out and talking with IF you want to respark your love of anime. Hanging out with yuppy college students that think they're all that and a bag of chips isn't going to do anything but make you bitter.

Later, BrundelFly - Anime Adrenaline

[Spike04]

I've lost all respect for anime. I lost more than just respect for anime fans, too, and I've long come to believe that their attitude is what made the block unwatchable for so long. Now that we have a non-WB animated show, they're all crying out for its removal from their stunted idea of what Toonami is (which is a showcase for action-adventure cartoons), and it just annoys the heck out of me.

Well it sounds like you have a very negetive attitude toward this, and my advice to you would be to stop caring about what other people think and just watch what you like regardless.

[AinaMacil]

You don't like anime? Don't watch it. You don't like the opinions of those who like anime? Don't read 'em. Get over yourself, stop whining about "anime ruining things" for you, and accentuate the positive. You like he-man, yipee for you. Try talking about he-man instead of bashing anime.

[Ajax]

To understand what you were whinning about, I had to go back to the He-man Sux more Zoids thread as you put it. I came across this.

You seem to be forgetting that there's more to Star Wars than just the movies. The novels runneth over with witches and magic users. If your idea of Star Wars is that limited, then maybe... Nah, I won't finish that thought. I'd just have a mod breathing down my neck again.

Just stick to anime, mkay? It suits you

.

Now let me rewrite that in way so it makes sense on this thread.

You seem to be forgetting that there's more to anime then Toonami, ASA, or CN for that matter. There is manga. You can always read that and most of the time there better then its animation counter-part. If your idea of anime is that limited, well let me finish that thought. Don't be lazy, like some have said, You haven't been exposed to the cream of anime. Go out and rent since your strapped for money and find anime, hell you can even download it like I do. Don't just blame a TV block. Toonami isn't an all anime block, for starters, so you can't really be blaming it for killing you supposed "love" for anime . So you hate DBZ, will give you that. If this doesn't get through to you then stick to He-man, alright dawg, it suits you.

[RogueMartian]

Wow, that's a harsh post.

You know, you may want to consider the possibility Toonami did nothing to you and that you are simply not an anime fan. Think about it. You may like one or two anime shows, but you don't like anything on toonami or adult swim. You don't like the anime your friends show you. Have you ever seen FLCL, Abenobashi, Now and Then Here and There, Vandread, Trigun, Hellsing or anything like that? If you have and you still think anime is not for you, then face it, you are not an anime fan. You probably never were.

This is not a bad thing, it just means you don't like anime. Many people don't, and I don't think they'd say its because of Toonami, they'd say its because anime isn't their thing.

As for He-Man and Armada, I hate both. Having watched several episodes, I find myself always picking up a book. In that respect, they are quite positive shows. But for after class entertainment, for me they fail. But I don't blame toonami or anime for the fact that I hate those shows, I blame the fact that I think they suck. Personal preferences are just that, they are rarely anybody's fault.

[Mynd Hed]

You can read manga. Most of the time it's better than the anime because it gets more into the storyline and you are not limted to the stuff they play on T.V. or anime itself. All in all don't let one think kill your love of something. That would be like me saying the radio killed my love of music when all I have to do is go out look of CDs that I like.

A very apt metaphor. I agree completely. Someone whose only exposure to music was through MTV would naturally assume that 99% of music is crap, but that's simply not the case. Likewise, someone whose only exposure to anime is through Cartoon Network is going to come out with a very skewed view of what anime consists in.

[Jade_GL]

A snobby anime fan fest.... My favorite.

It's too bad, because I love anime through and through, just not the crap that they shovel on TV. But my exposure to it began with good anime on TV, such as Saturday Morning Anime on Sci Fi. I was spoiled with anime that was thoughtful, not anime made to sell card games and figurines.

But, the anime they show on CN is 90% bad, especially if you just watch Toonami. DBZ is overdone and boring, especially since it always seems to be rerunning just when I catch it. Sailormoon was interesting, and it's what got me into anime, but the dub is atrocious in almost everyway possible. Hamtaro... No comment. The only shows I really liked they have since removed for more brainless fare, such as removing Big O and Tenchi and then bringing in Hamtaro. I am not saying they removed it to put this stuff on, but it seems as more intelligent and fun anime is being taken off, more brainless anime is taking it's place. Just an observation from someone who remembers when Toonami was Thundercats, Sailor Moon, and DBZ, back in 1998.

I completely understand bashing Toonami. They do show cruddy shows, especially when you know they have better stuff lying around, like Big O, Gundam shows, etc. Instead, we get two hours, I mean one hour of DB/Z and some hamsters with heads the size of pumpkins.

They even used to show Batman and Superman on Toonami, two outstanding shows. Tenchi was marvelous. I don't care if it's reruns. It's reruns are ten times more entertaining than the stuff they have on now.

So, I agree. If your only way to get anime is to see Toonami, Toonami WOULD ruin your anime experience. It's that simple. Anime is expensive as a hobby, and a lot of people see what they put on TV, not a new bootleg you may have just caught somewhere else of some new outstanding thing. Most peopel will see Hamtaro and go "Anime is bad." If I had not had prior experience, I may have said the same thing.

So stop hating! This thread reeks of snobbiness and a general mean streak. I usually never pipe up, but I hate seeing it and really, what's the point? So, someone doesn't like anime and blames Toonami. So what? I hate Toonami as it is now and if I had not liked anime before Toonami decided to go hamster and Goku crazy, I might have had the same opinion.

I liked it when DBZ was new, Sailor Moon wasn't dubbed into the third and fourth seasons, and Thundercats was heading it.

Anyway, just chill everyone. It's no big deal.

My opinion is that Toonami used to be a lot better, and I agree that it pretty much stinks right now. They should bring back the better, more thoughful shows, and leave the really childish stuff behind.

[Chris Wood]

Originally posted by Jade_GL
My opinion is that Toonami used to be a lot better, and I agree that it pretty much stinks right now. They should bring back the better, more thoughful shows, and leave the really childish stuff behind.

Agreed. They should dump the childish stuff like Sailor Moon, DBZ, Hamtaro, Yu Yu Hakusho, G Gundam, and Zoids. Instead show deeper stuff like Bebop, Robotech, Mobile Suit Gundam, Evangelion, Star Blazers, Ghost in the Shell, etc.

[Mek]

Jade_GL: *clap, clap*

You certainly have the right opinion there. I mean really... anime fans are insensetive. (They put other shows down, yet they can't take anyone who doesn't like anime...) Plus Toonami just isn't what it used to be. Heck, the only show I watch on the block now a days is... Masters of the Universe! *gasp* A Non-anime! Sacrelidge! Kill the heretic and all that crap.

... Sorry for rambling there.

Anyways, I whole heartedly agree with you. =)

[StrangerAtaru]

(preaching to the converted) "Can't we just let animation be animation?"

Sorry, but I just had to say that. I like both American and anime stuff, and am somewhat sick of both sides arguing over who is better. I get enough of that in the real world alreay.

[Killtacular]

There were two things that killed my love of anime and its respectability in my eyes: my loophole campus friends who ONLY watched romantic comedies or sentai series, and Toonami. Maybe it's just me, but after Big O, none of the series were appealing. The novelty of war dramas with big mechas (Gundam series) wore off, and I NEVER liked DBZ--the animation was choppy, and it just seemed to be three episodes of fights for every one episode of plot. Blue Submarine #6 was okay, but it was hindered by feeling too compacted into its short length and by the most obnoxious heroine this side of Tenchi. Please don't get me started on Tenchi--sci-fi trappings aside, it's just another teeth-grittingly obnoxious romantic comedy. And maybe this is a little judgmental of me, but something about the clash of CGI & cel animation in Zoids is off-putting. And finally, I'm sick to death of Ocean Group--about one in six dubbed shows bothers to hire Californian VAs, and with a few exceptions, a lot of Ocean Group's actors have limited range.

When Adult Swim started to run Cowboy Bebop, I decided that was it. Even the shows for AS Action seem like Toonami shows (not just the ones that were), and they completely lost their appeal for me. Yeah, anime can be very, very good. But between the slim pickin's offered for people with limited budgets (like me) and the typical otaku attitude (that anime is a gift from on high for the initiated and that Western animation is but a pale shell of this divine present) that's been attached to some of the more mediocre offerings on Toonami, I've lost all respect for anime. I lost more than just respect for anime fans, too, and I've long come to believe that their attitude is what made the block unwatchable for so long. Now that we have a non-WB animated show, they're all crying out for its removal from their stunted idea of what Toonami is (which is a showcase for action-adventure cartoons), and it just annoys the heck out of me.

I had to get this off my chest. If I have to enter one more thread to discuss the only show I've liked a lot on Toonami in a good year or so and some kid starts whining about how they can't watch Zoids or Armada or DBZ, I will be completely miserable.

What, you want a handkerchief or something? Perhaps pity? I'm not sure what you're looking for, aside from attention.

Why would you lose respect of anime because of the fans though? That's the most retarded way of losing respect. About as retarded as people who say "I'm not going to listen to this band because they're POPULAR. INDIE 4EVAR!!!"

I'm positive I hate Star Trek fans, but that doesn't mean I hate Star Trek. I also frown upon classic cartoon fans, but I still watch Looney Tunes.

If the fans bother you so much, maybe you just shouldn't hang around the Toonami forum.

Instead show deeper stuff like Bebop, Robotech, Mobile Suit Gundam, Evangelion, Star Blazers, Ghost in the Shell, etc.

Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, and Evangelion on Toonami would be the most horrible thing ever.

At least 8 episodes of Cowboy Bebop would have to be excised entirely.

[Chris Wood]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, and Evangelion on Toonami would be the most horrible thing ever.

At least 8 episodes of Cowboy Bebop would have to be excised entirely.

The most horrible thing ever??? How do you figure? Perish the thought of having intelligent programming.

Cowboy Bebop is already airing without the huge censorship you seem to suggest is necessary.

[Jack]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
I also frown upon classic cartoon fans, but I still watch Looney Tunes..

That's more your fault than thiers, though. You could have been less condecending.