So what are your honest beliefs on the uhh...bend of the 5 GundamW pilots? (some spoi

[I.R Joey]

PG thread

There's been alot of speculation about the Yaoi conotations in the series and maybe I just didn't see it (some of my freinds swear to me that the Trowa, Quatre in concert thing was a sure sign though.) It's possible that Quatre is gay, but then again maybe that soft feminine nature of his is just the fact that he's not afraid to show his feelings. I think it's pretty safe to think that Hero is straight (with the whole Releena thing. You don't just give someone a Teddy bear like that for no reason (ep. 49) and no I don't care if it is just symbolic for the relationship between Earth and the colony's, they where a little to caring towards one another, you could cut that romantic tension with a knife.)

Duo may in fact be gay, but I'm unsure whether his relationship with Hildy is platonic or not, I mean she does hang around his place alot.

Wu-fei: This guys just one big mysetery to me, his actions are just so randsom that it get's hard to pinpoint alot of things revolving around his psychological makeup. But I can see where alot of people get the thing with Treize and him, but then what about Une and the way he treats he. Heck he seems to flirt with alot of women at party's. Maybe their relationship is similar to Zech and Hero's, with the whole "mutal respect" among warriors.

Thoughts?

[Barb Gordon]

This has been a huge issue with many a GW fan. I'm a big GW fan, and obsessed over Duo^-^. Got a shrine, loads of posters, on lots of ML's, the whole thing...but I'm quite laid back on this yaoi issue. Personally, I saw nothing to suspect that any of the pilots were gay in the series or in the manga....expect Trowa and Quatre. There are just certain things about Quatre, his clothes, to his manners, frankly everything about him, that just makes me think he is gay. And for the fact that Trowa seems very fond of him, and visa versa, and the fact that Catherine is his sis and can't be his g/f, I also beleive that Trowa is most likely gay as well. Lots of fan girls hate Relena and Hilde, but Relena most of. I like both of them a lot, they're really cool characters to me. I like it that Duo and Hilde are a couple, and that Heero and Relena are a couple. Based on the series alone, those pairings seem likely. But I'm also pleased with a Duo and Heero pairing, and yes, if you look deep enough into some scenes in GW, you might think that perhaps they are more then best buds. But, this pairing has been very big among fan girls, and the only place you'll actually see this relationships, since it really isn't in the series, is in fanfics and fanarts. As far as Wufei is concerned, I'd find it hard to beleive that he is gay, for the fact the one, I just don't see it, and two, he previously has a wife, but she died. Also, in the series and movie, there seem to be hints that he and Sally might like each other, though I doubt Wuffy would ever say so. Some people also think that Treize and Zechs are a couple, and I have no idea where they get that idea, expect in their dreams. It's shown plain as day in the series that Noin and Zechs are in love with each other, and the same goes for Treize and Une. But those are just my thoughts.

Barb^-^

[I.R Joey]

Zech and Treize, hmmm I've never quite heard that one.

BTW can you explain to me why Relenna is so hated by fan girls, is it something about her stealing Herro? You know that whole territorial female thing I've heard of, but never experianced? J/K

[DerekPowers]

i think that quatre and trowa probably had a gay relationship. quatre is probably gay and trowa bisexual, since he seems to like cathrine bloom an awfull lot. i remeber reading somewhere that trowa and catherine were brother and sister, but i never heard or saw anything of the type in the series, and i was looking for it too since i read it. so i say they had a romance as well, and if you watch the endless waltz, it seems trowa desides to settle down w/ catherine not quatre. i mean, not only was their concert evidence, but when quatre went mad and trowa was talking sense into him, there were definate subtle undertones of some kind of intimate relationship.

the rest id say are straigt. i dont know why so many people think hero and duo are gay, cause its obvious hero and relena are all about eachother and duos relationship with hildi was more than just a friendship, imo. i mean, they lived together.

wufei seemed to pair w/ sally po. i dont agree w/ the whole wufei/treize thing. i think its just they have a tremendous respect and attraction for each other when it comes to battle, but thats where it ends. and by attraction i just mean they are drawn to eachother since they both have the same kind of pride and honor when they fight.

dorethy may have had a thing for relena. i remember her saying once something like "youre so beautiful when your angry" or something like that. but id say with her its hard to tell since shes such an odd ball. she was just plain weird (but cunning as hell, ill give her that).

these, ofcourse, are just my opinions. peace.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

What? AGain? You sure seem to have an obsession about this topic. You're lucky you ask here, because hardcore Gundam fans will groan and give you a smackdown if you asked them.

They aren't gay. The creators have said that they aren't--each of the five have their own female love interests at some point of their lives. The gay thing is merely a product of fangirls' overzealous sexual imaginations.

Honestly, I get tired of this GWing "gay" thing. Does it matter whether these cartoon characters are gay or not? The show isn't as deep as you think when it comes to relationships. Come to think of it, why don't more people talk about Sailor Uranus and Neptune's lesbianism? Now that's a REAL gay relationship, instead of scrounging for hints of gayness from the Gundamstreet Boys.

Relena haters...I don't get 'em. The most ridiculous thing I heard was obsessed fangirls calling her "ugly." Uhh...she's a cartoon character, geez. Yes, maybe she isn't drawn as pretty as the GBoys, but that's no reason to hate someone...if you thought male otaku were bad, I got news for you...

[Lachesis]

No, I don't think anyone on the show is gay, but, well, the fans do what they want. A lot of the guys have deep personal connections with each other, but nothing like THAT!

Personally thought it was a boring series and never finished it. Didn't like Relena because she was tedious and badly written.

[RockItShipper]

First off, one of the show's creators stated it was left open for viewers to imagine or ignore it as they'd like.

Heero: Everyone goes on about the teddy bear thing...
But it seems to me, from seeing Endless Waltz, that Heero associates Relena with the little girl from his flashbacks. And that when he threatens to kill her, he doesn't mean it but he's just bugged by the way she goes after him. Why is that so hard for some people to believe? Another issue is that GW takes place in a complicated political world closer to that of the prequel Star Wars movies than the original trilogy, meaning Relena's mission of peace would be easier to realize with a political marriage. Which means, if she and Heero have a thing... He'd be like her mistress for lack of a better word.

But is he gay? There seems to be a bit of official art from Animedia where Relena's an annoyance and Duo gets him all hot and bothered... But then again, who's more girl-pretty? Hmmmm? The argument for similiar characters tends to be "he's not gay but he loves...", a concept which really has its roots in the Kinsey scale and its theories on the complex and varied nature of sexual attraction. I read a cute piece where Relena and Heero were married and let a freshly dumped Duo into their house where he proceeded to fool around with them both (just not at the same time, and not with the other's knowledge)


Duo: You have to say that he and Heero's personalities complement eachother, which is why they're a popular yaoi couple. Although the doujinshi(fan-comic) I have of him and Quatre in a field of sunflowers professing their love is quite cute! Girl Duo's a popular fanfic/doujinshi theme- from sex changes to cross-dressing...

Trowa: From what I've heard, Catherine is either his biological sister or a surrogate one. I really don't know him though. Aside from him being a clown, anyway.

Quatre: Wizard Press kept calling him the sole female pilot. He reminds me of Sailor Mercury and Bubbles, he's the only male child among miles of sisters, and he's a cute li'l blonde blue-eyed Arab. I enjoy reading him written a little against type, like in humor fics. There was one where he was asking the others how to pursue Trowa (it's usually the other way) and the idea of hair-pulling suggested by Heero didn't really work in his case.

Wufei: Zechs and Treize offer up a naughty little 3way/love triangle with this guy but it's nothing I'd think about a serious possibility. He's sort of the odd guy out, which lends itself to fics with love triangle and 3ways with other pilots but I don't see anything grossly wrong with him and Sally Po from what I've seen.

Why is slash written about any fandom? And if you look, there's alot you'd be surprised to see these kinda fics on. For example, the pair of Titanic fics with Jack and Cal... That's the non-canon wish-fulfillment bit. But when I wrote about Yukon Corneilus and Hermey... not the least bit sexy, but what is the problem with the concept? Rankin Bass probably didn't make them gay, but where's the evidence against it? Or the harm? Of course, if things like that bug you at all...

[JL Man]

Just a thought, but since this is an anime, as in from Japan where the kids can see anything, don't you think they just would have said they were gay, like in Sailor Moon.

[RockItShipper]

Sailors Neptune and Uranus aren't main characters. CCSakura's brother and first crush are more or less a couple, but it would be considered irresponsible in Japan to have the main character of Sakura return Tomoyo's feelings.

Japan is much less open about homosexuality in real life, and in how most shows for younger children finish with clear contradictions of any yaoi/yuri hints during the show's run.

Back to CCSakura.... One of Sakura's classmates dates a boy in their class. Another dates the teacher because she's so mature. Tomoyo has a new girl in her life by the second movie, but is always there to make matching costumes for Sakura and Li. The whole trend is more a fantasy notion for shoujo's than a validation of young love, homosexuality and pedophilia.

In fact, I think the first major blatantly designed homosexual couple on kids tv will be in the US first.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I disagree; the first blatantly designed homosexual couple on kids' TV will air in Europe first.

Sunrise staff never get their facts straight--or that is, all of them have their own ideas about the show. One staff member may see no homosexual subtext--they merely look like pretty boys and people are just fantasizing. Some other guy may throw out the tired "it's your opinion, make it up" notion, and another guy would say, "we definitely wanted to appeal to girls and shoujo fans..." (hint, hint).

I personally think it's a load of hogwash, but obviously many fans beg to differ.

By the way, Sailor Uranus and Neptune never came out and said they were gay. They just treated their sexuality matter-of-factly.

While homosexuality may not be as open in Japan, the concept of gender identity and exploration is still widely discussed. There are more crossdressers in Japan than you think. Underground clubs a bit away from the public are fairly popular "hangouts."

As for CCS...don't think CLAMP is all innocent about their relationships. CLAMP is also known for many other adult shoujo productions, some "could be hentai" titles, and I believe they've even been involved with some hentai video games. I've read that one CLAMP woman likes playing PC hentai video games...I would not rule out any erotic subtext one finds in a CLAMP production, even in a kiddie show.

[RockItShipper]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
I disagree; the first blatantly designed homosexual couple on kids' TV will air in Europe first.

Hmmm... not too familiar with Euro shows, but I guess there's less chance of the Pat Robertsons there wasting their time whining about it. Hopefully.

As for CCS...don't think CLAMP is all innocent about their relationships. CLAMP is also known for many other adult shoujo productions, some "could be hentai" titles, and I believe they've even been involved with some hentai video games. I've read that one CLAMP woman likes playing PC hentai video games...I would not rule out any erotic subtext one finds in a CLAMP production, even in a kiddie show.

What I find interesting is how Li and Sakura's relationship is build on yaoi/yuri principles. Rivalries, particularly romantic ones, take place among characters of the same sex more often than not in anime. If you were to cast Pokemon characters in CCS, "Ash" and "Gary" (as much as I think that couple wouldn't work) fit much better as Sakura and Li than "Ash" and "Misty" would...

[DR. BELCH]

The country as a whole is very close-mouthed about sex, period. I've noted many times that a Japanese man won't even publicly compliment a woman on her appearance. This is why prostitution, hentai and mizu-shobai--brothels--are so popular there; they serve as a sort of a release from stringent tradition (anyone here read Black Blade by Eric Lustbader, BTW? Very interesting take on the clash between the old views and the new ways in modern Nipon) and antiquated honor codes.
Europe does show nudity on TV in its afternoon soaps, if that's any indication as to whether or not a prominent gay couple will make it into kiddie fare....

[Barb Gordon]

Supposedly in the official manga, Episode Zero, I think it's said, or implied, that Catherin Bloom is either Trowa's real sister, or a surrogate one. And because of that, that's why most people assume that it must mean that Trowa and Quatre are then gay. The whole show is about politics, love does not really play that much part in it, but fans really like to focus on the relationships. Because the show wasn't about love, there isn't much to go on, and so people's imaginations and opinions run away with them. There are hints that Hilde and Duo are either best buds or going out, and the same for Heero and Relena, but a lot more subtle. I mean, at the end of Endless Waltz, we see Duo with Hilde, and Heero checking up on Relena....not Duo with Heero or anything close to that. If the creators said that they left it open to personal opinions, then everyone has a right to make whomever they want gay or not. But if the creators have said that no one is gay, then crazed fans will have to deal. Then again, that's the fun of fanfics and fanart. Because you can still have your own versions if what the creators say is not what you wanted.

Barb^-^

[I.R Joey]

Didn't Duo once tell Hero.

"Anything for the one you love."

In referance to Releena being kidnapped?

[RockItShipper]

Duo seems to be a bit of a kidder, though.

Re: Catherine Bloom. Even if her being Trowa's sis one way or another automatically determines that Trowa and Quatre are gay, it doesn't mean they're gay-together.

In general, I prefer not to work with anything explicitly shot down by canon. Digimon is the main exception, because the only way I can piece the 2nd season finale together with the show I followed is by imagining that none of the DDs learned anything (or that Takeru's book was full of it).

I picked up on 3 possible slash couples while reading LOTR... Sam and Frodo, just because it's so big on the net... But I don't like what implies, and it helps not having had time to warm up to it because of how fast I read.

Legolas and Gimli. This is how it's done. If the thought bugs you for whatever reason, you move towards the "just friends" interpretation. End of story.

There was another one which I found really cute even if canon sets something else up, I'd like to approach it as an AU of sorts one day... if only to offset all the Merry/Pippin stuff I saw on tolkienslash... ick ick ick

[Lachesis]

LOTR slash?! Oh, that's really going too far.

The one thing that bothers me about all these Gundam fangirls is that they're so dang fixated. There's plenty of yaoi and shounen-ai anime out there. A decent Yami no Matsuei or Gravitation fansub really isn't that hard to find these days. . .

[RockItShipper]

Originally posted by Lachesis
LOTR slash?! Oh, that's really going too far.

Every fandom has people saying that when slashfics emerge, so I'm afraid I can't really take that seriously anymore. There are ones that I don't think work (for canon or character reasons), or are not-funny gross, or are just plain depressing.

RE: Gundam fangirls... The show's more high profile, even back when it was big in fansubs. It's something you can get figures of at Wal-Mart to pose as you'd like. I tend to see stuff in all sorts of shows/movies/books now and it's about levelling the playing field because non-slash has an enormous advantage in cultural assumptions.Which is why there's always "NOT IN MY FANDOM" going around and I'm sick of it.

[HellCat]

About that violin and flute scene- the best explanation I've heard for this has come from a poster at Gundam.com . Her explanation was that it's a 'conversation'. Trowa doesn't talk alot, so he used music to communicate with Quatre. The flute plays, the violin responds. The flute plays again and the the violin responds again.
It makes sense to me. Trowa had never had any friends, he'd been raised as a mercenary. So then he finds someone who is like him (another Gundam pilot) and they form a bond, not a sexual one but one of friendship.

[RockItShipper]

And if the characters in question weren't of the same sex, would you still read such a scene the same way?

[I.R Joey]

Good point Rock it Shipper, but I still don't know if we'd exactly read it the same way. It would be kind of like the way some people read Spike and Faye's relationship from Bebop.