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Your take on a past Batman film!

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by DisneyBoy, Aug 17, 2005.

  1. DisneyBoy

    DisneyBoy Searchin' My Soul

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    This is something that's been going through my head for quite some time now. What would I have done differently to the various Batman movies if I could? I'm sure I'm not the only one who has some ideas, so let's share.

    Batman

    This one would stay pretty much as it is, with one exception. I would have used Christopher Walken in the role of Harvey Dent instead of Billy Dee. Of course, this change only makes sense in hindsight, but hey that's the idea here :D I'm not entirely a fan of Vicki Vale, but she's used well enough in this film and I can't think of someone better suited to be the audience POV in the picture. Alicia has the beginnings of a great Harley Quinn, so maybe I'd change the name there to Harleen, keeping her character basically the same, except played by Mia Sara (from Birds of Prey). I love how Harley is in animation, but there's something about the switch from silent to sinister, lovely to laughing that could have worked here, again in hindsight.

    Batman Returns

    I love the picture exactly how it is, especially Shrek, but for the sake of the next movie, I would love to see Harvey Dent in his place, still played by Walken. Instead of bitterness between Wayne and Dent, there would be a mounting tension as Bruce realizes his friend is in cahoots with Cobblepot and seems to be losing his marbles a bit. Say, we could even make that moment between Selina and Dent a really interesting one. Big Bad Harv could be the one closing in on her, about her kill her, when suddenly Harvey takes control, bringing about the moment of nervous laughter. Then BBH comes back, turns and pushes her. There would be no need for the Chip character here though, and Dent would survive his scarring encounter with Catwoman to end up in the hospital.

    Batman Forever

    Here's where things get drastic :evil: Keep Burton on board as director, Walken as Two-Face and Keaton as Batman (again, I'm imagining here!) Replace the Chase Meridian character with Leslie Thompkins, and lose the romance angle entirely (obviously). The plot would go as follows, with Two-Face suddenly emerging and escaping from custody. The big question here is whether or not he remembers that the man behind the mask is also his former best friend. While he uses his knowledge of past court trials and such to seize control of the city's gangs, Bruce revists his childhood friend Dr Thompkins hoping that she might be able to provide some insight. Armed with understanding, Batman tracks down the in-hiding Two-Face, and lets his guard down, thinking he'll come quietly. Instead, T-F tricks him, gets away and a peeved Bruce attends the Circus benefit, only to bear witness to the slaughter of the Graysons. Dick (still Chris, whom I thought was quite good) gets taken in by Bruce and watched over by Leslie, while Batman's guilt for not having stopped T-F at any cost haunts him. Dick wants Dent dead, and learning about Bruce's secrets only pushes a wedge between the two. When Harvey finally makes the connection between Bruce and Batman, it all hits the fan. Robin is born, Leslie learns the truth, Alfred and she get chummy, and Harvey is spared a bloody end, instead getting locked up in Arkham.

    So, yah, no Riddler. I liked Carry, but he stole away too much attention from the more thematically empowered characters.

    Batman and Robin

    Still Burton, Keaton and O'Donnell here, with Uma as Ivy, and Patrick Stewart as Freeze. The story begins with a flashback to the solo Batman days, when Batman's interference with the Ferris Boyle/Victor showdown in a lab ends with the whole thing going up in smoke. Opening credits and flash forward later, Dick is at University, where he meet Babs Gordon (Dina Meyer) and the two get under each other's skin very quickly. Batman and Robin encounter Mister Freeze for the first time (the plot here would be similar to Heart of Ice, in terms of Freeze's goals and what he's stealing) and Batman discovers Victor blames him considerably for his loss. Isley meanwhile is a botany teacher at the University whose studies are certainly less than conventional. After taking a liking to her in class, Robin pays her a visit, and she kisses him. At a major event (like the party in the original flick) Ivy makes a grand entrance, using her phermones to charm Bruce, Dick and the Commish. All this seriously freaks out Babs. Ivy goes straight to Freeze, offering up Batman in exchange for ending his attacks on Gotham so that she can purify it. They quickly realize they can't trust one another, though. Bruce and Dick bicker over Ivy (as in the movie - I liked that part, because it showed how different they were as men).

    Okay this is getting long-winded :eek: Basically, Babs becomes Batgirl and saves her father from dying at Ivy's hands, she then helps Batman figure out a cure for Ivy's kiss, which frees him, but not Robin, who has fallen for Ivy big time. The Trio take down Ms Isley, just as Freeze is busting up Boyle, who it turns out, managed to recover Nora from the blast. Freeze kills Boyle, takes out Batgirl and Robin and uses his cannon on the city. Batman takes out the cannon, the cops arrive on the scene, and Batman offers to try and cure Nora. Freeze goes willingly to prison, while Ivy ends up in Arkham, and Dick and Babs hook up. Batman is redeemed in his own eyes for having failed Victor, Dick and Dent, who emerges cured from the Asylum (Walken in a cameo). In the final scene, Batman's path is crossed by Catwoman. The two kiss, and he's called away by the signal.

    :D

    I always feel kind of silly detailing how my imagination would prefer existing episodes of shows or films ot be...but what can I say...it's fun!
     
  2. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Uncreative Hack

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    Batman: The Movie - First of all, get rid of Merriweather. Eatha Kitt was the best Catwoman ever, don't deny it. Lets get some new stock footage please, now matter how you spin, thats the same shot of the Batmobile leaving the batcave. Now Riddler, Joker, and Penguin are a great team but where the heck is False Face?
     
  3. DarkAngel

    DarkAngel Lord Vader

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    I'd replace the Axis chemical plot (which seems better suited for an episode of BTAS) with something worthier of Joker and a theatrical movie. I'd want to see more of an edge to Joker, and see him set something in motion that's more on the level of his greatest comic book appearances.

    I like your suggestion of including Harley. Of course, the character hadn't been created yet then and I'd prefer to limit myself to ideas that could have been used when the movie was being made.

    I'll echo that. I've been very critical of this movie in the past, but as the years have gone by and upon repeated viewings, my opinion's changed drastically. I've seen it twice in the last month and feel it's definitely the best of the Burton and Schumacher films.

    There's really not much I'd change. Maybe I'd do something about Bruce unmasking himself in front of Max, which has never felt quite right to me. I understand the purpose of the scene and love the dialogue between Bruce and Selina, but it still bothers me. Maybe it could have been arranged differently.

    And maybe I'd remove the programmable batarang scene, during which the baddies conveniently wait (and one with a rocket/missile launcher, I think) while Batman enters in its flight path.

    Or change Batman killing the thug with the bomb. Actually, that reminds of a problem I have with Batman and Batman Returns collectively: doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to Batman killing. He seems to do so very inconsistently and that's something I'd change.

    But with "Returns", the only serious problem I had was with the unmasking.

    Yep, I agree, though I actually think replacing Schumacher with Burton alone would create that kind of change. I'd replace Riddler's brainwave stealing plot with something that actually fits well in the Batman universe. But beyond that, I think Burton's presence would be enough to make this movie entirely different. I like the cast and would keep Kilmer, mostly out of curiousity as to how he'd come across under Burton's direction. Also, I loved Kidman as Chase Meridian and would keep her as well. I'd just give the brainwave stuff the boot.

    I think it'd be easiest to just wipe this movie from existence!

    I'd toss out just about everything, including the title. No Freeze or Ivy. I'd use Bane as the main villain with a loose adaptation of Knightfall. Arkham breakout early, burned out Batman trying to go after everyone, Bane watching, and then eventually breaking Wayne. Then with Bruce out of action as he struggles to regain his walking ability, Robin's left with the overwhelming task of trying to maintain some order as Bane consolidates his hold over Gotham. Here, I see potential for great tension between Bruce and Dick that's better handled than in B&R. Bruce wants Dick to stay away from Bane (as he did with Paul in the comics), but Robin has his own plans. He goes after Bane and things go badly. He gets hurt, though not as bad as Bruce and gets away. Bruce, fearful for Dick's life, decides its too dangerous with Bane out there and forbids Dick from continuing as Robin (much like he forced Dick out in the comics after Robin was shot by the Joker). A furious Grayson isn't willing to allow Bruce to control his life and leaves the house, establishing his new identity as Nightwing. Bruce eventually returns as Batman, and the two work together, though with a lot of friction/tension, to take down Bane.
     
  4. DisneyBoy

    DisneyBoy Searchin' My Soul

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    Knightfall, if done that way, could have made for a really good film. I wondered for a few minutes if they could actually go through the entire crippled-to-cured storyarc in under two hours, but hey, if it can happen in more serious artsy films, I suppose it could work here too. Would certainly have been a change of pace for the Batman films though.

    Could Bane have stayed interesting for 2 hours? Yah, he's a "big bad" like Ra's or Darkseid, but most people don't particularily care for either of those two because they're always shown to be SO powerful. On the other hand, they have personalities. Bane's always come across as flat.
     
  5. DarkAngel

    DarkAngel Lord Vader

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    Bane's been flat in everything post-"Vengeance of Bane II". But from his introduction in VoB 1 through that issue, he was handled very well. He's a great villian because he's not only a great physical threat, but he has brains, too. Unfortunately, after VoB II (in which he'd moved beyond his addiction to venom and his desire to rule Gotham/take down Batman), the writers obviously had no idea what to do with him. Instead of leaving well enough alone, they had to bring him back and turn him into a 1-dimensional thug, a move which completely contradicted everything done in VoB II.

    For a movie, though, using Bane during the Knightfall period would be great. He wasn't all muscle which is what made him such a great threat.
     
  6. Patrick Bateman

    Patrick Bateman Telling it like it is

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    Julie Newmar owns Eartha Kitt's ass.
     
  7. ManicWebb

    ManicWebb You were cold as ice...

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    Kitt could out-pur Newmar any day of the week.

    Batman - The Movie
    I'd start by getting rid of Batman's patented BS Logic. An attack at sea, which sounds like C, as in Catwoman? That one scene came this close to ruining the whole movie for me. Actually, other than that, I'd say the movie was just fine for what it was.

    Batman
    This movie was fine the way it was.

    Batman Returns
    I'd probably take away Penguin's whole "raised by birds in the sewers" thing. Let's just say he raised himself in the slums (and maybe the sewers), shall we? The fact that the birds listened to him was just silly. And if the man commands his own gang of human thugs, let's make him more of a gang leader. Basically, I want the scumbag Penguin who feigns class.

    Batman Forever
    Drop the crotch & ass close-ups. Tone the Riddler way down. Ditch the neon lights. I know this next suggestion might cause some controversy, but try to follow along: cast a Robin who doesn't look over the age of 18 (let alone 25). Why? Because it makes no sense for Bruce to take in an orphaned Dick Grayson if he's of legal age to live on his own.

    Batman & Robin
    If we're going to add Batgirl, let's do it right. Commish Gordon gets a bigger part (ie. he's actually in the movie), and Babs is his daughter. She gets introduced to the fold by dating Dick. Bruce doesn't have a romantic interest in this movie (for once), so Dick & Babs get that angle. For the sake of setting things up, let's say she gets very close to both Bruce and Alfred, and treats them like family. Cast someone other than Schwarzenegger as Mr. Freeze. You know, like someone who can act. Tone down the character, as well. Tone down Ivy, too. Let's not include Bane at all. Ivy's pheromones will drive a wedge between Dick and Babs, as well as Dick and Bruce. Babs knows Dick is hiding something, and somehow stumbles onto the Batcave. Alfred whips a little something up for her, and we can leave in the scene were Batgirl shows up to rescue Batman & Robin from Poison Ivy. No bat-nipples, no alternate snow costume with a silverish lining, no neon lights, no crotch & ass close-ups, and let's lose the bunk one-liners.

    That's all I could think of for B&R for the moment. Did I miss anything?
     
  8. TimTwoFace

    TimTwoFace Mod, and Minotaur Bait
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    Batman - The Movie
    First off, I'd've kept Julie Newmar, if she were available. Then, I would've made the movie shorter - and not nearly as boring. (I despise this movie cuz it's so boring; the series was great, but this movie spin-off is a collossal bore.) Also, throwing in the theme song by Neil Hefti would've been great; I was always miffed that this classical piece of Bat-music wasn't present in this movie.

    Batman
    I really like the movie as is - and I wouldn't even alter anything with newer technology. Well, I would get rid of those cartoony gun sound effects during the Batman/Napier fight early on, and replace them with REAL sounds. If Vicki Vale didn't scream so much, I would've been happier; better laughter out of Nicholson would've been nice. Aside from that, I've still no problems.

    Batman Returns
    I would've kept Billy Dee Williams in this movie as Harvey Dent; whether this would take away from the Shreck role (as has been hinted at), I don't know - but it would've made the build-up to Two-Face a lot better. I liked Burton's takes on Penguin and Catwoman - so the only other change I would have would be more Commissioner Gordon, and less plot holes (such as how Penguin's thugs got blueprints to the Batmobile). Everything else here was perfect.

    Batman Forever
    More Two-Face, basically. As good as the Riddler is, Two-Face easily should've been the central villain of the movie, especially considering the theme of duality. Assuming I'm not going to write the Riddler out completely, I would've liked to see Two-Face act less goofy (as a foil to Riddler's zaniness), and a more detailed look at Harvey's origin. Aside from that, I've no problems with this movie; Val Kilmer is no Keaton, but he's fine - O'Donnell was good, and I've no qualms with Kidman.

    Batman & Robin
    No Batgirl. No Bane. Less one-liners; I don't mind Ivy as being an over-the-top character, but Freeze should've been a lot less jokey - as in, NOT AT ALL. Patrick Stewart is still who I'd like to see in the suit. I'd replace Clooney with Keaton or Kilmer; more unique pieces of music that weren't blatant Batman Forever rip-offs. Don't make Robin a whiny little chump - his portrayal in Batman Forever suited me fine. Neon is also fine, but don't put it EVERYWHERE, like back alleys and stuff.

    Batman Begins
    The movie is pretty solid as is; the only change I would make would be clearer visuals for some of the fight scenes, more Scarecrow, and the inclusion of Harvey Dent in a minor role as Rachel's boss.

    Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
    Also, another nearly perfect effort; if the movie had a Disney-level of animation, man, would this blow me away. As is, though, it's pretty solid.

    Batman & Mr. Freeze: Sub-Zero
    Shorter chase sequences, and a better subplot with Batman and Robin; as is, the movie is good, but is mostly a Freeze/Barbara story. It's pretty one-dimensional, in that regard.

    Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
    The inclusions of the scenes that were storyboarded but not added; a shot of Batman interrogating the Penguin during the flashback sequence. Anything else I'd add would just make it more disturbing, bloody, and violent - so it's not needed. But I'd like it!

    Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman
    This movie isn't bad - it's just so very boring. Only a complete overhaul would really make this much better. It doesn't have to be a dark tale or anything, but I never got into it. Keeping Paul Williams as the voice of the Penguin would be high on my list, though; not that David Ogden Stiers is bad, but Williams was just PERFECT in that role.
     

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