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Your Favorite Animated Series Currently Running

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by Bat-Fan Beyond, May 31, 2009.

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Your Favorite Animated Series Currently Running

  1. Batman: The Brave and the Bold

    5 vote(s)
    9.8%
  2. Wolverine and the X-Men

    8 vote(s)
    15.7%
  3. The Spectacular Spider-Man

    32 vote(s)
    62.7%
  4. Iron Man: Armored Adventures

    4 vote(s)
    7.8%
  5. Star Wars: Clone Wars

    2 vote(s)
    3.9%
  6. other (please post)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Wonderwall

    Wonderwall Moderator
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    Could say the same for you bub

    That's ok to not like the show but your reasoning makes little sense. The fight scenes are amazing and almost rival the DCAU fights. I wouldn't call Iron Man a waste from what I saw I wasnt wowed but I wasnt revolted. And its just the pilot. The new X Men show has a decent plot but pacing problems.

    Pray tell what is the difference between animation and kiddie animation? I went to school for it and graduated and am an animator and I only know 2 types of animation 3D and 2D....hmm...never saw anything called kiddie animation:shrug:

    Anger? Irritated but not angry. And your comments were the ones I was addressing because as at least with other people who I disagreed with they have very valid reasons for the shows they like and didn't like.

    Those shows aren't kids shows though. These ones are. Different ballpark there so I don't know how that factors in at all.

    If anything you proved here that you don't get it. Superheroes can be all those things. And all those shows are for the most part serious, violent, and likable. You must be one of those guys who thinks that more blood and dark means more adult. But that's not always the case as those can be pushed to the point of being juvenille. I'd hate what you think of comics back when they were actually...profitable.
     
  2. Gokou Ruri

    Gokou Ruri Wielder of the dark arts.

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    In the end, does it really matter if it was or isn't? It's a lot better than 'be just like that popular movie that came out' or 'be just like the comic, don't try to innovate anything'. If executive meddling gives us a quality show (and a lot of people seem to like Batman the Animated Series) , then I say bring on the meddling.

    The difference being those movies were terrible. The fact they were different from the source material had nothing to do with it. There are quite a few properties that differ from source material that are enjoyed by a lot of people.

    If you're going by the comic, perhaps, but the show does a great job of establishing him as a character without those aspects.

    The spirit of the character doesn't really mean much at the end of the day, though. Since they're different continuities.

    So I take it you hated the way he was portrayed in the movie then? With him sleeping around with multiple women and treating them like one-night stands?

    I'd say he's quite flawed, for reasons already explained. His heart is quite clearly 'broken', if we go by that metaphor.

    Let's be realistic for a moment here.. would you honestly say he was popular before the 2008 movie? He had a couple short-lived shows, and wasn't anywhere near Spider-Man or X-Men levels of notoriety. He's only in the mainstream culture due to that movie. The show could have easily regurgitated the movie towards us again, but instead it's trying to establish the character on its own merits.

    So in other words you don't have any evidence then. I'm not seeing any valid reason for hating him being a teenager other than 'it's not like the comic'. But from what I've heard from a few people, he was a teenager in the comic at one point, so...

    The Crimson Dynamo, for one. The fact I go to Wikipedia and see that there's been over ten of them automatically makes me prefer the show's coherent version of the character. Madame Masque is also a lot more interesting this time around.

    My point was that if this wasn't called Iron Man, and he wasn't called Tony Stark would you still be complaining that the main character doesn't act like a playboy? If you weren't preoccupied with calling out the show for not being like some random comic book, would you still not enjoy it?

    To see if they could tell their own story and not be mandated by greedy executives who just want to cash in on a movie's popularity by regurgitating another series in the vein of MTV's Spider-Man? To try something new with the character and breath life into a half-century old character? The reasons are endless.
     
  3. CJ67

    CJ67 Member

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    Wow, I'm going to have to agree with NYGMA on this one. You seem to be having trouble understanding the difference between animation and character design. SSM has some of the smoothest animation I have ever seen for a sat morning TV show. Wolverine and the X-men is pretty damn good as well, but the slightly more detailed designs changes it a little.

    Speaking of character designs WATXM isn't that far removed from SSM, so I don't see your gripe about kiddie designs when although closer to EVO in design, it is not far removed from SSM.

    As for things being adult themed, please everyone stop with this X-men TAS series being adult. It wasn't, if you have a guy with razor sharp metal claws and he pops them and no one gets a scratch then it's not adult. If the only thing he cuts is metal doors, or robots it's not adult. Wolverine is possibly the most neutered character in terms of his powers in animation. You want to see adult watch Hulk Vs. that Wolverine is for adults, he chops peoples body parts off as Wolverine should with his claws.

    Anything that isn't coming on and airing at 10pm as an original air time, or doing a DTV is for kids. Did you catch the new GI Joe resolute on Toons? That was for adults a way different approach to the GI Joe I remember as a kid. That was how Snake Eyes should be, not the neutered down version we saw on morning TV, or guys escaping everyone explosion etc. That's adult themed and WATXM is not any more adult themed than SSM.

    You make this statement that seems very strange, it's a lot better than be like the movie, or the comic. You mean it's better than being what it is? So, it would be cool to take batman and turn him into the dark knight at 13? That isn't very innovative, that's just plain silly. BTAS was on a different level and stayed very true to the comics, unlike IronMan, so you can't compare the difference in meddling here they are not even close. Had BTAS had Bats at 13 years old and running around with the batmobile and his cowl on the show would have been a joke.

    That's the thing, no they don't. They don't establish a good character, because it's not Tony Stark. When you completely change the main character you now have a different story. They should have made this IronBoy, or IronMan Jr and made it Starks son if they were going to change the character completely. You seem to damn the comics, but that is the source, that is its orgin and to completely flush that is what kills the very essence of half the character of IronMan, which is Tony Stark.

    This isn't different continuities, this is a different story all together. You have none of the things that make Tony who he is, or IronMan for that matter because Tony is IronMan. Different continuities is Smallville, the characters are on track especially the main character, but the path of the stories are different. Change the main character and you don't change continuities you change the who thing. Even Ultimate Marvel kept the character traits very similar, it's what makes Tony who he is. If you are going to change the main character so much, you might as well not make him Tony, because he is only Tony by name. Like I said earlier they would have been better off making it Tony's son.

    Again, it's a different character completely because there is no way you could make Tony who he is for kids. They didn't do this for their own merits, or great vision. It was done for three reasons, IM the movie did great, SSM did great with putting him back in high school (even though he belonged there from the start) and Standards and Practices makes things to difficult to portray Tony properly. This was innovative, this was necessity.

    There are many reasons why he shouldn't be a teen and they have been listed, you just chose to ignore them to suit your argument. As for him being a teen in the comics, it was in the ultimate universe for a mini series that actually didn't do very well in terms of sales and I would hardly call a mini series a real push. It didn't sell, so they killed it that alone should tell you something.

    You're using flawed logic, if it wasn't called Ironman and he wasn't called Tony Stark you wouldn't have this conversation because they wouldn't have source material in which to generate comparison. You seem to not know too much about the comics since you are using wiki. The point here is it isn't "some random comic" as you put it, it is the bible of the character. It is who he is and it is the essence of the character himself. By changing Tony, who is Ironman, you change the character and show completely. Again, they could have went with IronLad, or IronBoy, or IronmanJr and let it be Tony's kid and it would have been more acceptable simply because the change in character would be on par with it not being Tony himself. One of the biggest reasons people love the spectacular spider-man is because they got it right. Pete isn't some steroid pumping, ladies man who is rich and drives a nice car and hangs out with the IN crowd. He's exactly who he is supposed to be, keeping the heart and soul of the character is what makes the show so great, staying very true to the source is what makes the show so incredible. Had you changed those things you don't have Peter, or Spidey any more.


    Yes, because the character certainly needed new life after those terrible box office numbers this past summer. The character certainly needed saving and a new life. NOT! They didn't do this to try something new, look up and you'll see the reasons why. The character did no need saving and there were better ways to do it than this, but they didn't want to actually take the chance you are claiming they are taking, because not using tony would have been dangerous and risk taking. Using his kid would have been way more risky and innovative and allowed for a whole new character to be ironman as a teen. Marvel already did it with the next Avengers instead of turning Cap, Thor and company into little kids.
     
  4. Dayspring

    Dayspring Active Member

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    1) Wolverine and The X-Men: Solid story and animation that just got better as the series progressed. Easily the best thing out there.

    2) Batman: The Brave and The Bold: Accomplishes what it sets out to do, which is to be a fun, light-hearted Batman+Friends series. As the show goes on, it gets more adventurous and more fun.

    3) Spectacular Spider-Man: Title explains why I love season 1. Season 2 takes a heavy drop in character and story development and quality, however, which is why I put this show in third instead of second favorite.

    4) Ben 10: Alien Force: Slow to start, but it has some gems.

    5) Star Wars Clone Wars: Most episodes are annoying and clicheed. Also, entire episodes get stretched out over a period of 2-5 episodes. It gets old REALLY fast, and presumes to be able to redeem Jar Jar by making him just as redonk as he is in the movies. On top of all this, it introduces elements to the series that don't fit with continuity.

    6) Iron Man: I think I only like it because everything else is in repeats.
     
  5. M.O.D.O.K.

    M.O.D.O.K. Scientist Supreme
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    How am I a novice because I don't watch Clone Wars? I'm just not interested in the Clone Wars period the show is based of.



    Guess I should have explained it better. I'm not really much of an X-Men fan, but what I saw was good. I'll probably get around to watch more, but for now, I have more of a solid opinion on Iron Man.
     
  6. Gokou Ruri

    Gokou Ruri Wielder of the dark arts.

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    You mean Batman Beyond?

    You just proved my point. "They didn't establish a good character because it's not Tony Stark"? That sounds like 'change is bad, no matter what it is'.

    Yes, this show is a different story. That's what I've been saying, and that's what the show has been established as from the get-go. No one is saying otherwise.

    So far, the only reasons I've seen boil down to 'it's not like the comics'. The Tony on the show isn't like the Tony in the comics? Well, then I guess it's a good thing the show isn't the comics then.

    This is obviously where I differ from comic book fans. My favorite show is WITCH, which basically laughed at the original comics and mercilessly tore them apart and did it's own thing. I have no qualms when the source material gets warped and changed, so long as the end result is enjoyable, if not an improvement. In both cases, I would call it an improvement over the source material. This is the first time I've enjoyed anything Iron Man related, because of the nature of it (an actual set beginning, middle, and end) with their spin and reimagining of it. I don't care if this isn't the 'real Iron Man', because what's 'real' or not is utterly pointless when we're discussing fictional characters (and arguing what's 'real' when it comes to comic book characters which go through dozens of retcons is already a losing battle in itself, but I digress) If comic fans can't accept that, then it's unfortunate that they'll miss out on a great show for no other reason than being opposed to change. I just think it says a lot when 99% of the complaints I see about this show boil down to 'it's not like the comic'. Not actual critiques on the writing, the story, or the characters.
     
  7. CJ67

    CJ67 Member

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    See my theory on a different character which is exactly what Batman Beyond was, it was his son, but not him and that's what should have happened with Ironman, he also wasn't 13 years old.

    But it is Tony Stark, but only in name. I didn't prove your point, you didn't understand my point. Change is not bad when it comes to story telling, but taking a character and making him completely different but giving him the same name is bad.

    You don't get it, it's not a different story, it's a different character period. there was no need to call him Tony Stark, because he is Tony Stark in name only. They did this to sell the show.

    Then why bother calling him Tony Stark, or Ironman for the matter? Why not call it robotkid? Oh yeah, because teh show wouldn't be worth a damn otherwise. They weren't creative, they weren't innovative, they were greedy and made a decision based on $$$$.


    Well there are millions of people who love the comic and the character and that is where you are seeing the backlash. I tried watching the show, I am not missing out on anything three different times I tried watching it and found it to be utter garbage. The character designs are terrible, the animation is cheeze and the characters themselves are not the characters they have the names of. Again why not call it IronLad and give these characters different names and stories that go with the new characters? I'll tell you why, then you don't have an already established multimillion dollar property in which to draw a fan base from and make money from. This was about one thing, money! It's more innovative to start from scratch and create something, not ride the coat tails of an established character and blockbuster movie trying to cash in on something that this show is completely not.

    You obviously don't know too much about the comics or the character for that matter in any form other than this, so of course you're loving it since you have very little to base the character on.
     
  8. Stu

    Stu Marvel Animation Age Webmaster
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    Spectacular Spider-Man: This thing has been a blast from start to finish. It took some time to get used to the Fisher Price designs, but after that it's more than made up for that with it's characterisation, pacing, fight scenes, casting and romances. Arguably up there with Batman: The Animated Series as the absoloute best ever.

    Wolverine And The X-Men: While suffering from slight pacing problems, there's been some great twists along the way. It's best viewed as a single, cohesive story rather than the sum of it's parts. Definate room for improvement but given how ambitious the show is, it's forgiveable. Pumped for season 2.

    Iron Man: Armoured Adventures: I've only seen a handful of episodes - the two part pilot was awful but it's make slow progressions towards improvement since then. As Arsenal's mentioned, the problem isn't that Tony isn't that Tony is a teenager, it's that he's not an interesting teenager. There's also nothing in there that's not been done better in The Spectacular Spider-Man.

    Batman: The Brave And The Bold: Not so keen on this one - I've enjoyed a bit of what I've seen but there's nothing that makes me want to rush back. It's dissapointing to see after how bad The Batman was (most of the time) and how well commercially both Batman: Gotham Knight and The Dark Knight did, that we're back to kiddie catering, solely for toys.

    I don't watch Clone Wars or any other cartoons to compare them to.
     
  9. Antiyonder

    Antiyonder Amalgam Universe Overlord
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    To CJ67 and Marn Hierogryph

    CJ67:
    As much as I disagree with Marn on some points, I do agree that an adaptation shouldn't be a 100% copy of the source material. Not much point watching when you can read the original material


    Marn:
    If you're going to be critical of the original version of Iron Man, at least read some of the comics to get a more informed opinion (If you have a library in the area, as them about ordering some Iron Man trades). The best disagreements after all stem from people who have facts on their side.

    I mean, I know the character sounds appealing, but even ideas that sound bad can be good if executed correctly.



    As for my opinion on the current shows:

    Batman The Brave and the Bold: Since the other shows have a more serious story, this serves as a nice relaxing fun show. Plus we get to see characters that DC Comics believes wouldn't be able to carry their own show otherwise.

    The Spectacular Spider-Man: This really does captures the Lee/Ditko material without some of the more redundant moments. Plus it does well when mixing ideas from the other sources (Ultimate and Movies in particular).

    Wolverine And The X-Men: The stories are about exciting as the 90's animated series. At the very least, the characters don't pretend that Wolverine is leader material right off the bat. But I'd say that a low point is that we have yet another version of Cyclops who can't function without Jean. With X-Men Evolution, you get the feeling that he loves her, but doesn't base his entire life around her.

    Iron Man Armored Avenger: Story is on par with WATXM and TSSM, plus as mentioned earlier, the characters don't get caught up with the various high school cliques.
     
  10. CJ67

    CJ67 Member

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    Anti,

    I don't think it has to be a 100% copy, but it also doesn't have to be a 100% departure as well. The only things this has to do with ironman is that there is an ironman suit and a character named Tony Stark it ends there. One of the things that makes Stark so interesting could have been used here. What led him to become what he became.

    I still prefer the idea of going with a batman beyond approach and making it the son of Tony Stark and then it would make more sense to be a teen and have him be different. You still stay true to the essence without being nailed down to it.
     
  11. Gokou Ruri

    Gokou Ruri Wielder of the dark arts.

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    I've read a bit, like Civil War, Extremis and seen the 90s show, and the movie, but I just never found him appealing outside the concept of powered armor. The whole jerk/womanizing persona of his never helped me like him either. But like I said, AA is the first thing about the character I found appealing. I've seen/read ones about Whip Lash, Madame Masque and whatnot, and I still prefer the AA versions of those characters for a variety of reasons. In one episode, AA has gotten me to care and sympathize about Madame Masque more than the one-dimensional version of the character in the 90s show or any of the stories I read about her in the comics.
     
  12. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    I have to say Iron Man AA is a real surprise to me because I was not expecting to like it as much as I do.

    While he isn't a drunk or a womaniser it's still a good version of his character. Those may be parts of his character but that's not all there is to him. So removing them we get to see more of an arrogant Tony who's only focused on his mission.

    It may not be my favourite or second favourite (SSM and Brave and the Bold for reasons already stated in this thread quite a bit) but Iron Man is third tied with Wolverine. Both are good series and I enjoy watching them equally, but their flaws bring them both down to third place.

    Wolverine has not so good action animation, pacing and plot problems, and lack of character development beyond some main characters and a few sub characters. But the best version of Magneto on screen, and Angel's character arc was phenomenal.

    Iron Man has bad animation for anything other than fights, facial expressions are really lacking, and the plots can be rather predictable. But it has good character development, very interesting, and smart, villains, and truly great character designs.
     
  13. CJ67

    CJ67 Member

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    Marn,

    If that is what you read of Ironman then you have read nothing. You need to read Ironman. You read civil war which was about ironman to a small degree and that's where you judge? Go back to the real stuff and then talk about reading Ironman. There is a few decades of some really great stuff there.

    You keep referring to cartoons as your basis and understanding of characters. It is very obvious you have very little knowledge or experience with the true character in the comics. I would agree with Anti, hit the library and see if they have the Avengers Essential, or an Ironman Essential.
     
  14. SpaceWay2008

    SpaceWay2008 Member

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    I voted for TSSM! :)
     
  15. Gokou Ruri

    Gokou Ruri Wielder of the dark arts.

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    I've already said I read various stories about him, Civil War was just one title I mentioned in that post. A lot of what I read stems from the title that started in 2005 with the Extremis storyline. If that's 'not enough' then I guess I'm sorry; and that ultimately comes to the problem I have with superhero comics. There's decades of comics, each written by different people, so if you read the 'wrong' stuff then I guess it 'doesn't count'. There's no set beginning, middle, or end with these characters, so Iron Man can act one way in one issue then completely different in the next and they both will be considered the 'true' version of him since it depends on the writer. I'm not sure what constitutes the 'real stuff' if it's not the 50+ issues I've read that has his name on the cover.
     
  16. CJ67

    CJ67 Member

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    Read the Avengers Essentials, and read Ironman from before the 90's. There are a ton of stories that revolve around him where he is true to character. There is a whole ocean of stories you are looking past that happened long before the 90's.
     
  17. BigEclipse

    BigEclipse Member

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    I chose Wolverine and the X-men only because Spectacular Spider-Man is still repeating season one here in the states.
     
  18. JeffBreakdown

    JeffBreakdown Member

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    i was just joshing





    gotcha ;)
     
  19. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    How exactly does those earlier comics make it the "true Iron Man"?
     
  20. CJ67

    CJ67 Member

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    Well, if you have to ask that question then you need to go read them. It's where Ironman started.
     

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