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X3: What's happening, What might not happen (spoken from a fan's P.O.V.)

Discussion in 'Marvel Live-Action Movies and Television' started by Storm, Aug 4, 2003.

  1. Storm

    Storm Active Member

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    This thread is inspired by mostly Internet movie and comic sites that cover the lastest news on X3. I just felt like doing this. So here is what might happen, some of this you guys may already know and a dash of venting by me :evil:


    Storyline: The Phoenix Saga

    Reaction: It wasn't written in stone but it is most likely to be the plot for the third installment. My guess is that Singer and crew will loosely based this on the Phoniex Saga (not dealing with the outer space theme) and just have Jean loose all control of her powers and make her public enemy number one.


    Spotlight: Jean and Wolverine (vomits)


    Reaction: I'm so cool with Jean having the spotlight but Wolverine again? This is called X-Men Singer not Wolvie and friends. Some of you may disagree (who am I fooling... all of you may disagree) but last time I checked X-Men focused on ever character. The characters that are getting the most lack of treatment are Cyclops and Storm. Cyclops doesn't act like a leader until the last moments of the film and still at the end Wolvie ends up the big hero and Storm, poor Storm. Ororo why do they treat you so wrong? She is just a one dimensional black women who can control the weather when it comes to the movie. I mean it's sad when it comes a time when actual X-fans what her out of the next film. I blame four people for this horrible act of injustice: Singer, The Casting agent, The Writers, and of course Halle Berry (I guess you guys can tell I'm a big advocate when it comes to Storm, huh?)

    Singer: I commend you for bringing my favorite comic book to life. You brought a whole new look into the world of X but why so much lack for Storm (and also Cyke)? You claim you love these characters but when I see Halle Berry with a messed up looking white wig on and seeing her tilting her head to control the forces of nature then that's when I get really concerned. Now most of you blame Berry for all of the wrong gestures and bad performance but it's also a Director's job to tell the actors to do what gestures or how that line is supposed to be read (I know this cause I went to acting school for a couple of years). Now Singer you say that you saw all the episodes of the original Fox cartoon but why doesn't movie Storm give any passion or chant when she controls the weather? Halle just stands there looking pretty... that is totally not Storm!


    Writers: Get your focus off of Wolverine for a minute and focus of the ones that matter: Cyclops, Storm, and Mystique. Why can't you tap into their origins without doing all the nonsense explaining. You guys can do that, I know you can. The average moviegoer doesn't know that Storm was worshiped as a goddess or has a tight friendship to Xavier and Jean. Why wasn't she playing the role of co-leader properly? This is not Ororo this is some butchered up Storm that I will not accept and then you guys want to cut her out of the films just like that? That is so wrong.


    Casting: What possessed you guys to cast Halle Berry. Berry can act but only in dramas! She is bad in any form of action. Why not cast an unknown or Bianca Lawson (Kendra from Buffy). Shame you guys for just casting Berry for her looks only! Shame!


    Halle Berry: Ugh.... I usually defend her but not anymore. Berry you can do a dramatic crying scene in Queen and Introducing... Dorothy Dandrigde but not an African accent? Nicole Kidman, Naomi Watts, and Colin Farrel can all do roles without their accents and sound like the are from America. Jennifer Garner can do a German accent and she's from Virginia but you can't do an accent? It's easy. I can do an African accent and I don't need couching! You also claim that you like the character of Storm well listen honey in X3 (if you are in it) if you like the character so much then prove it and do the character justice regardless the screentime.



    Whew... done ranting.....




    Characters and Actors:

    Reaction: The only actors who have stated that signed up for an X3 are Rebecca, Alan, and David (Colossus). Alan and Rebecca said that they only signed up because they want to have a subplot with Nightcrawler finding out Mystique is his mother. Patrick and Ian both stated they need to see a script first before jumping into the X-bandwagon again. Famke, Anna, and Shawn said they would like to work on another X-film but have not yet signed. There is a rumor going around saying that Tyler Mane will be in X3 as Sabertooth. James says that he's willing to do another film but James if your reading this make sure you are in 4/5 of the movie not 1/5 before signing any contract. Hugh said that he's ready for another X-film and he loves the character but this may be his last. At one of the comic-cons Halle Berry appeared as a guest to promote WB's Catwoman and Gothika and she stated she would love to do Storm again but she want the character to actually mean something to the team and be able to fly and fight so she'll probably ask for a script too. It seems all the cast members are willing to do an X3. I've also read a report saying that movie will just be No Storm, Little Cyclops, and More Wolverine. I hope that is totally false.



    Movie Status: Late 200? and will possibly be the last chapter in the X-films.


    Reaction: Good for Singer he needs a break. If it's true that X3 will mark the end for the X-saga then that great news. It should go out with a bang before it gets all Batman: Forever.



    Closing Statments: I don't want you guys to think I just hate Wolverine. He can be a great character at times but I just think the movie should involve around a team of mutants like it's supposed to be. I'm not taking anything away from Hugh Jackman's performance but I just feel that Wolverine is overrated. Before I get attacked by you guys I'll say he's a popular character. He's a popular character with a great personality but sometimes when you milk a popular character for all they're worth (Fox) they soon become overrated and leaves other great and important characters out in the cold. I know you guys think I'm just some whiny fan who is a biased Storm fan. I'm not. I (like any person who is a fan of a certain character) just want to see Storm get the justice she deserves. She is the first black character to appear in the X-Men comics and first black superheroine. That has to mean something? Well, not in Hollywood's eyes. Well, I'm done here. Have a nice day :)


    - Storm
     
  2. Bobby Boy 101

    Bobby Boy 101 Demi's Throttle

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    dude that entire rant was awsome! ahhhh i feel the Exact (well, not as intense maybe :p , but almost) same way about storm! ahh in the first ine when she gets beat up by toad i was like WHAT THE HELLLL?>!?!? STORM IS A BIG STRONG WARRIOR!!! but then i figured they would take that route in the movies where wolverine was the one who taught storm to fight, post X-men, pre X2...fair enough.....so in X2 im waitin for HAlle to whip out that can o WHOOP---..maybe even have a nice big catfight w/ either Mystique (who i LOVE, especially in the movies) or Kelly Hu/Deathstrike...but NO storm is like, less than ur average supporting character...it makes me sick...tho in the trailer she has a few nice highlights...that was an awsome trailer, X2.

    ahhh but yea, i see ur points on all of this....i really hope that thing w/ Mystique bein the mom doesnt happen...I think she should turn rogue during the third one and help the X-team while helpin herself to somethin...instead of bein all up in there w/ magneto and now pyro...echh! she also didnt get much screen time in the 2nd one...but i guess since she did ALOT in the 1st one it evens out....


    AHhh i hope Xmovies go out w/ a BANGGG
     
  3. TheScarecrow

    TheScarecrow The Master Of Fear

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    Any rumor that X3 will focus on Jean and Logan is just that... a rumor. At this point in time, all we really know is that Singer sent in a treatment (a rough story outline) for X3. Everything else is pretty much speculation and rumors at this point.
     
  4. The Guard

    The Guard No Matter The Cost

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    Storyline:

    We're going to see Sentinels in X3. Don't ask me how. But there were tests for these things for X2 before it was deemed too expensive. I'd expect them in X3. And I imagine we'll also see Magneto and a new Brotherhood, and something about Phoenix. Not Dark Phoenix, though. Not to the extent that the comics show her, trying to destroy the universe and whatnot.

    The X3 spotlight has already been said to be on Wolverine, Jean and Cyclops. Expect Cyclops to be the star in X3. Bryan Singer isn't stupid. Neither is David Hayter, who will most likely write X3. These two know the importance of the characters, and will do everything they can to flesh them out.

    Wolverine is a major part of what makes the X-Men so cool, and fans want to see as much of him as they can. With Jackman's wonderful portrayal, I have no problem seeing other characters get a little less screentime if it means more Berseker Rages.

    The X-Men films are ensemble pieces. Wolverine is the newest member, so we're seeing the stories unfold through his perspective. Each character has his/her moments, and it cannot be denied that Jean, and both Cyclops and Storm had theirs in X-MEN and X2. Cyclops speaks softly and carries a big stick when the chips are down. And it's not Bryan Singer's fault that Halle Berry, who was upset she'd been reduced to playing comic book roles, didn't take her role too seriously. What do you want to see? An entire movie devoted to Storm and her African connections? Fact is, it doesn't really enhance the story onscreen to know whether or not Storm is some kind of goddess. She appears to be a Mutant, and a teacher at the Xavier Institute, and that's enough for me, and most fans. As far as the director telling Halle what to do, I don't think Halle Berry listens much to other people. She is, after all, "the" Halle Berry. I wouldn't worry about seeing much of Storm in X3. That would pave the way for much more Cyclops! Yay!
    Characters and Actors:

    Not sure where this "X3 will be it" attitude comes from. It might not be this entire cast and Bryan Singer doing more, but there's serious talk that FOX wants a James Bond-like franchise of X-Men movies. Six to nine, at least.
     
  5. Tapout

    Tapout Active Member

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    I don't remember where I saw it, but it's official: Halle Berry will not be in X3. So good news there.

    Also, I really agree with the point about Mystique. For the first time ever, I actually care about that character. In both animated series she's probably the most annoying person in them, but that probably has a lot to do with the fact that I really don't like how the majority of cartoons handle shape-shifting.
     
  6. Char Aznable

    Char Aznable "The Red Comet"

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    It's true! Halley will not return as Storm in X3. She proclaims she didn't like her character role in X2.
     
  7. Tanooki

    Tanooki Supplexing disease since 1982.

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    i have yet to see all of x2. we got about half way through it and then my friends mom made us go out and find his brother. but about halle berry. i've actually never liked her in any of her movies. i don't know why, but she just doesn't seem to click with me. so, i guess what i'm trying to say is good ridence to halle berry for x3

    Falcon

    ps. 800 posts!!! HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  8. CookieS

    CookieS Active Member

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    Hugh Jackman nor Halle Berry signed up for X3, which is projected to be out in summer of 2006. The problem with this is obviously too many characters and not enough room to develop anything. X1's flavor was Rouge & Wolverine, X2 was all about Nightcrawler and Wolverine, and I'll assume X3 will be about Jean, Wolverine, and a smidgen of Cyclops.

    Lots of characters are undeveloped! You'd think they make efforts to do better though...to add more to this dillemia, they're considering adding Beast, Gambit, and Angel to the plot. What a mess!
     
  9. Storm

    Storm Active Member

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    I beg the differ when you say Singer and Hayter aren't stupid. Obviously they don't know the characters enough to put certain ones out in the cold. In X2 and X-Men I haven't seen any of the real Storm nor Cyclops... I'm still waiting and if they knew what they were really doing Cyclops wouldn't be getting the cold shoulder neither. You can't really say that both X-films did Cyke and Storm justice, can you?



    Yes, I agree but Hayter can also make Cyclops and Storm cool if he wanted to. Cyclops and Storm have wonderful character traits in the comics that I haven't yet seen in the movies.



    Funny that you say ensemble because it seem like Logan is the only front runner in the movie. Compare his screentime to Xavier's.... now you know that is just plain wrong. Yes, Wolverine is the newest member I it was cool to see X1 told in his perspective but why in X2 and X3? Give some other characters a shot, they don't need to be in 5/5 of the movie like Logan but give these actors some more material to work with.



    LMAO. Let's get the facts straight before we post them all willy nilly. Halle Berry said on BET (I saw the show)... "It's a shame that there are not enough powerful black female characters that I'm reduce to a comic book character... it's sad that this is the only genre that provides that impact." Not taking your role seriously is like asking for more character develop? I disagree. You and others may cry selfishness and ego-trip but Halle wants to be in X3 she just think Storm is not treated right. I mean if I was Halle and I saw the cartoon and read the comics to get ready for the role and knew I was doing this warrior goddess I would be pretty blue afterwards knowing I wouldn't get to do half of the stuff Storm does in the comics. Halle and James had little to work with on their characters. It's a shame when a women in Hollywood wants to improve her character and has to demand screentime. She's called a B****, she has an ego, and stuff like that. It's a terrible double standard but when a male does it, it's okay. You don't know how Halle Berry is like professionally nor personally, you and others just cry all this negative rumors which half of them are untrue. Do you honestly think any director would even take any crap like that from any actor?! I think not. My acting couch always told me it doesn't matter how much success you gain you can always lose a gig when you have a bad attitude, so I can't see Halle Berry having an ego on set, cause she would be out of a lot of work and plus even her fellow X2 cast stated she is always down to earth so please do me a favor stop listening to Internet rumors. Obviously Guard you probably don't care for the character (and it's cool with me) so you can't know where I'm coming from (How would you like it if Batman was mistreated this way (and it has Batman & Robin). Storm is an essential part of the X-Men, you can't deny that. When I say essential I mean mother of the team, co-leader of the team, she faced Cyclops and won leadership of X-Men? How many X-Men members have done that? She is the only well known black female heroine in comic history and for them to decide for her not to be in other X-films in sad because the character hasn't even reached her limits in the X-films universe. I'm not asking for a devoted movie based on Storm I'm just asking for some kind of sign... like in X2 there could have been a moment where General Stryker observed the X-Men and and when he saw Storm he could have been like "No mutant should be worshipped as a Goddess"... something like that. I'm not just talking about her origin... I'm talking about her demeanor. Storm is a warrior and that aspect haven't been touched upon in the movies. Compare TAS version of Storm to the movie Storm... Guard do you really think Storm was done justice? Leave Halle out of the picture for a sec (cause you'll just blame Halle again) and focus on the character's role and how she was written. Was justice served to Storm? If Storm does not appear in X3 I don't think that will boost up Cyclops' screentime remember Beast, Angel, and Gambit are suppose to come to town. Like my Dad always says the writers and directors are the main part to make a movie work the actors are their to give it their all.



     
  10. The Guard

    The Guard No Matter The Cost

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    What facts did I get wrong? This quote:

    "It's a shame that there are not enough powerful black female characters that I'm reduce to a comic book character... it's sad that this is the only genre that provides that impact."

    Certainly sounds to me like Halle Berry is looking down on comic book roles compared to others. Selfish and egotistical. Sorry. I call 'em likes I see 'em.

    So you're calling Singer and Hayter stupid? Two men who brought a near ridiculous concept to life, made normal people embrace it, and manage to tell a layered story with symbolism and foreshadowing and such in a comic book film? Stupid?

    In other words, drop Wolverine and give his time to Storm? Singer and Hayter are walking a tightrope. On one hand, they have to satisfy the ravenous fans who want to see Wolverine kick ass, and want to see the core team as well as people like Nightcrawler, Colossus, Gambit, Banshee, Angel, Beast, ect, ect, ect. On the other, they have to present a believeable and intelligent story. I think they've done an excellent job so far.

    The real Storm? The "real Storm" is a member of the X-Men who controls weather and uses this power and her leadership abilities, is she not? Well, seems to me that's what Storm's done in this franchise. Do I need to give examples? Just because Storm's backstory isn't getting the attention Wolverine's is doesn't mean that the writers haven't done anything with her. Storm's backstory is, in a word, unrealistic and boring. Two things that David Hayter and Bryan Singer are not striving for with their X-Men franchise.

    The "real Cyclops", the Cyclops of the comics, doesn't care for Wolverine. He has a deep attachment to Professor X. He loves Jean and his teammates more than life itself, and is emotional and caring sometimes. He also assumes a leadership role, giving orders and making tough decisions and such. He also uses his optic blasts carefully, and cleverly. I seem to recall ALL THAT being in these X-Men films. So...tell me? Why is Cyclops so wrong? Because he and Jean aren't making love onscreen?

    So yes. Knowing from personal experience just how hard it is to write an "ensemble" film and deliver an engaging story, I do think that Cyclops and Storm have been done justice. Could Cyclops have had a larger role in X2? Yeah, sure. Did he sparkle anyway, and were his appearances accurate and appreciated? You bet.

    Front runner? Explain please. As I've said before, the audience likes Wolverine and can somewhat identify with him, so we're seeing this particular franchise through his point of view. A smart approach. You'd piss off a lot more people if Storm was in Wolverine's role and Halle was up there butchering the entire movie instead of just her scenes.

    Traditionally, Charles Xavier is the Commissioner Gordon of the X-Men. He sends them on missions. He provides guidance. He helps out when he can. But even in the comics he's mostly in the background much of the time. Professor X got a buttload of screentime in X-MEN, and it worked well when he was written out, and his "kids" had to prove themselves in X2.

    They did. The same thing was done in X-MEN with Rogue. We've seen the X-Men from Bobby Drake's view. Hell, we met his family. And in X2, you get several moments from Nightcrawler's perspective, and plenty of Jean Grey's. Even Magneto's perspective has been explored.

    Did she see the cartoon and read the comics? Does she r ealize that this is an adaption, and not quite the same thing? Does she know how to read a script before she signs to do a sequel? Is she taking her money? Then I don't want to hear her complain. The lack of background or "exposition" for Storm is hardly crippling these movies.

    I disagree, they had plenty, and I believe that Halle did nothing to capitalize on it but put on a white wig, but even if that were true, look at James Marsden. He's not regarded as an actor of Halle's caliber, and while he was also unhappy with the size of his role (and his character is more recognizable and important than Storm), he managed to BRING SOMETHING to his role. Halle was just...Halle. She didn't change her voice, or her delivery, or anything. She just put on the leather and did her thing, which, most of the time, is to smile and look pretty.

    No, It's not ok. But I believe you're referrnig to when James Marsden did the same. The expression, I believe, is "put up or shut up". Marsden did just that. He remained slightly vocal, but he also showed that he DESERVES a larger role. Halle, to date, has not, and she's had some decent material to work with.

    You didn't follow THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN, did you? There are crybabies all over Hollywood. Let's put it this way. Halle Berry is bigger than half the directors out there. And Bryan Singer and FOX should be applauded for not giving into her *****ing. Directors put up with crap all the time. Compared to some actors, studios consider them expendable.

    Your acting coach must not be talking about Hollywood. Because in Hollywood, if you're regarded as one of the best actors out there, you're not going to be losing a "gig", which in this case is a multimillion dollar contract in a huge, profitable franchise. Especially not when you've just won an Oscar and are regarded as one of about two good African-American actresses.

    I like Storm. I respect the character. But the "African Goddess" angle has no place in a science fiction movie that strives for realism while presenting the absurb. BATMAN & ROBIN was a terrible, badly-written movie. X-MEN and X2 have not been that. Storm's "mistreatment" did not result in a bad movie, nor a butchering of the character. Apples and oranges.

    No, I can't. But I also recognize that the filmmakers don't have a number of episodic comic books to work with. They have two hours. And in that two hours, they have to tell a story, and give screentime to about 15 people. In an ensemble film like this, if a few of them are shafted so infinitely more interesting characters and plot points can be explored, so be it. As long as the essence of the character remains intact.

    But see...that's the comics. That's not especially relevant to the movie version of the X-Men, nor should it be. That's a story that doesn't NEED to be told. This X-team doesn't hate each other's guts. It's almost a family unit. Halle Berry had her chance to be the mother figure in X2 in the catherdral scene with Nightcrawler. She didn't pull it off. She came off as flirtatious.

    So because she's a black character, she should be spotlighted? Please.

    Do yourself a favor. Read the X-MEN screenplay, or watch X-MEN. And imagine someone who cares about the character saying Storm's lines. Storm's "demeanor" in these films can ultimately be traced to Halle Berry, who carries herself the same in EVERY SINGLE FILM she's done since about 1992. You think Bryan Singer said to her "Just be the same boring you that you've been in every movie since 92, Halle." Don't think so.

    That depends. If your idea of "done justice" is condensing 25 years of continuity into two hours, then no, she wasn't. If it's the essence of the character, then yes. She had her opportunities to be both the badass warrior, and the tender, caring mother figure who still has a chip on her shoulder and all but hates the people that fear her. She had her chances to show leadership. Halle did not pull those scenes off. One that comes to mind is Senator Kelly's death in X-MEN. Halle could have done so much more with that scene. Instead she walked through it, and showed us some of her chest. And missed her opportunity. She was a little better in X2, but mostly because the scenes had her character walking around carrying little X-Children.

    Rumors, friend. Beast and Angel have been rumored since X-MEN. They were a part of the screenplay. And concepts were done for them for X2. And in X3, they could be nothing more than cameos, as they were to be in X2 at first. Odds are that Jean Grey won't even be around for much of the film, and since Storm is as good as gone, and the next movie won't be about Wolverine's origin, there's a huge chunk of screentime available right there. I doubt we'll see much of Beast besides Hank McCoy and his lab.
     
  11. GL2k2

    GL2k2 Savage Dragon

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    Halle Berry is just not a good actress. Stick to modelling lip stick, but stay away from character actors. I don't like her Storm, she could have brought more to the role if she was an actress. Throw in someone like Angela Bassett, we would've had a better Storm.

    One other thing is some of these actors don't care too much for their comic book counterparts. They read some issues donated to them by Marvel, but that's it. Do they got to comic shops checking out other stories involving their characters or read the Wizard, nope. Only fan turned actor in a comic movie so far has been Ben Affleck, who did phenomenally as Daredevil.
     
  12. Stu

    Stu Marvel Animation Age Webmaster
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    I have to agree with The Guard here. Halle Berry was given plenty of oppertunities to develop her character (more screen time, I remember someone won an Oscar for 8 minutes in a film, more screentime doesn't nessacerly mean more development) Guard pointed out most of them so I won't bother. I'll also say that she didn't really put herself out in the film at all, the only time she emoted was when Wolverine stabbed her in the first film, and most of that was Mystique anyways :p .

    Going back to what I was saying about not needing mass amounts of screen time to have a big effect on a film, well look no further than Cyclops himself, his role in the X-Jet won him the role of best performance for me, I remember feeling genuinly gutted for the character when Jean died.

    And as for Wolverine getting too much screentime, I don't mind, as it kept the film going. The plt revolved around him looking for his past, with Stryker, and actually given the X-Men a reason to be there other than to 'save the world'.

    I'm greatly looking forward to X-Men 3, but I don't see the need for Storm to appear at all, her roles in both films failed to interest me, so I hope they cut thier loses and bring another character in to replace her.
     
  13. Emerald Archer

    Emerald Archer From the Inner Sanctum

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    The Blame Game - A fine Hollyweird Tradition

    This discussion reminds me so much of the ones that popped up with every new Batman film. Batphiles loved Batman 1 and 2, but by the time we got to 3 and 4 the average fan was ready to go watch a Super Friends episode, because they were better by and far:)


    Just a few points. Film is a collaborative process. Last I looked Halle didn't write, produce, direct, and photograph the films in question. Personally I like Halle and have no problem with her. But if her acting was sub par, then their is more than enough blame to spread, you can start with HB and move up the line. So while she can be blamed for her interpretation, or lack there of, of Storm, it's more than just her. But I do think that HB is a fine actress. I loved her in Die Another Day, and her performance in Monsters Ball is riveting, and scary.



    If the X films have a problem, it's more than HB. And Storm hit it on the head. It's the same issue that plagues the current X titles. Marvel knows what sells the books and it's Logan, so he gets hyped. To the exclusion of others. Singer followed the same formula. X-Men is the Rogue/Logan story. X2 is the Logan/Nightcrawler story. X3 is suppose to be the Logan/Jean story. Are we seeing the trend here? Look at what happened to Rogue's character in 2. After being a major focus of 1 she becomes scenery. You have to figure that the same will happen to Nightcrawler. I don't fault Singer for this, he has to go with what makes the movie sell, and that's Jackman. But at what cost? Scott comes across as a petulant jerk, Jean's character is so unfocused that you have to wonder what's going on with her. Thats' just the two most obvious examples.

    I seriously doubt that if Jackman attachs himself to this project that he wouldn't be the focus of the third film. His relationship to Jean will take center stage, and once again Scott will be nothing more than a set piece to be moved around as the director sees fit. And I'd be willing to bet that HB comes back for the 3rd time. But again, Storms point is well taken, this is the X-Men for sure. But they are little more than background characters to interact with Logan. And yes, that sells, Jackman sells, Wolvie sells.

    It's the age old fan issue. How does a movie, based on a concept, with such rich history, do justice to that history? In the case of X-men you lead with your strength, Wolverine. But unfortunately you end up ignoring a lot of back story.
     
  14. Storm

    Storm Active Member

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    And it's the song that never ends....

    Thanks EA for backing me up, I was kinda feeling like the black sheep. First let me get something straight, I don't hate the X-movies. X2 has to be one of.... if the best comic based movie in years. I love them and watch them when I get a chance but at the end of the day it's something missing. That great impact I have when I watch the old X-Men cartoons and read the comic is something I might never get when I watch X1, X2, or X3. Basically Guard we both must have seen two totally different X-movies. Cyclops was handled poorly. Hayter and Singer both shocked the hell out of me when out of 3/5 of the film Cyclops was brainwashed, sorry but that's not the Scott Summers I know. Jean finally gotten better in X2 and had a purpose, in X1 she was just there to play love interest for Wolvie's needs. Storm was just the token black character. Storm was cast badly and when you cast a character badly look what happens? You ruin the reputation of the character. The Storm I know would have never let Sabertooth or Toad touch her, she was respected as a goddess and that's her nature. She's regal. Sure I will say Halle had some nice material to work with and did she live up to it? No. For the people who say Halle can't act you must have never seen any of her movies. Her old material beats her new material for sure. Guard now you do me a favor... watch Alex Haley's Queen and then comment on her acting. I'm not saying she's the best actress in the frigging universe because if she was she would have nailed Storm regardless but her work in Monster's Ball, Queen, Jungle Fever, Losing Isiah & Introducing... Dorothy Dandridge are priceless and are NOT just pretty faces or bland characters. Don't list me as a Halle Berry fan cause I'm not but I know talent when I see it and she has it, she may have some bad seeds out of liter which may be unforgivable but
    to say she's the worst actress is just laughable. Like EA said the point I'm making is that the lack of exposure of these characters. I'm not saying all of Logan's screentime should be giving to Storm nor saying that Storm should get special treatment because she's black all I want is to see Storm being written and acted properly. See Guard I'm not just blaming Hayter and Singer, Berry was at fault too and Hollywood was also at fault major big time for casting Berry for her looks and status. It's like they cast the perfect everybody but when it came to Storm they could have cared less. What ever happened to actresses like Vanessa L. Williams, Bianca Lawson, Vivca A. Fox, Iman, Angela Bassett, Gina Torres, Nona Gaye, and many more female black actresses who sadly don't get the credit they deserve like Halle Berry. It saddens me when people like Amazing Spidey (just using you as an example) says "Just ax Storm and replace her." You're so quick to jump there? How about improving Storm? She deserves it. If recasting her is the only resort then I say go for it. If Storm is not interesting to you then think of ways to improve the character. Thinking about Storm or Jean, Logan, and Cyclops not in the X-films are like Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman not in the JLA cartoon. Anyway I could always rely on X-Men: TAS or even X-Men: Evo to give me and others the Storm we know and love but no I want to see a movieverse Storm done correctly (acting wise and story wise). Wolverine fans have their perfect Wolverine why can't a humble Storm fan get his perfect Storm? (No pun intended there.) I just hope Singer rethinks this because he'll disappoint a lot of people if Storm's not in X3 because she is a prominent figure in the X-Universe. If she's not in it then I guess it was met to be but I advise Hayter to give Storm a proper sendoff and just not have Professor Xavier say "Ororo had to go to Africa to help her people"..... when he didn't even mention her African roots at all.


    - Storm
     
  15. The Guard

    The Guard No Matter The Cost

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    That's probably because the movies cannot possibly develop what the comic books have issue after issue to do, therefore, you cannot feel the bond to the characters that you do in the comics and cartoons. You havan't been there with them through EVERYTHING. These are movies. You have to accept that and move on.

    How was Cyclops handled poorly? Honestly. Let's think about this for a minute. In X-MEN, he's one of the first two X-Men we see, and displays total leadership and competence. Then we see scenes of him being protective of both Xavier and Jean when Wolverine comes to the academy. He goes to the train station to find Rogue with Storm and we see what happens when his powers go unchecked. We see him assume a leadership role, put together a plan to attack the Brotherhood, pilot the X-Jet, use his powers to save Jean, and then to save the day (when he makes one of those "decisions"). We see that he and Logan don't like each other through the whole thing, and that he's apprehensive about Logan's feelings for Jean. We see how much he cares for Xavier, and how much he loves his friends. How, in X-MEN, a movie with like nine characters to develop did Cyclops get "shafted"?

    In X2, yes, he takes a background role, but we do see him in the beginning, we see that he cares for Jean and is worried about her evolving powers. We see that he still cares for Xavier, and is willing to go meet Magneto, etc. He takes on another leadership role after being brainwashed, where, btw, he shows some kickass optic blasts, and then, once again, how much he wants to do the right thing, and how much he loves Jean. He has one of the best moments in comic book movie history when Jean dies. And some exposition at the end. How did he get shafted in a movie with EVEN MORE characters to develop?

    I wasn't shocked. I knew Cyclops was brainwashed. Why else would he and Jean be fighting each other in the trailers?

    No, in X-MEN she was there to be a love interest, and to show us another side of Xavier, that of mentor. Then, she showed some leadership, and a desire to use her powers as best she could, even though she was uncertain of them and could get hurt doing it, I.E the Cerebro scene and the end. She also helped figure out Logan's adamantium skeleton.

    Storm was much more then that. She was instrumental in helping the X-Men survive the military attacks, she helped track down Nightcrawler and put him at ease, she helped rescue the X-children.

    Riiight. So...because Storm is regal, she can't be touched? Seems to be she gets touched all the time in the comics. It's not like Sabertooth and Toad both SURPRISED her or anything. She did blast them both with lightning, did she not?

    I'm not the one commenting on her acting. I'm commenting on her attempt in X-MEN and X2. And I've said that she did better in X2. And I know damn well that Halle Berry has loads of talent. What baffles me is that she seems to choose not to use it much of the time. Since long before she won her Oscar, she seems to have relied on her body in most of her roles, not emoting, or acting much at all. Hell, in DIE ANOTHER DAY, she was just...Halle. Even her jokes fell flat. And don't tell me Bond girls are always supposed to be like that. Because they're not. They usually have a personality. Jinx didn't. I can't wait to see what she brings to GOTHIKA and CATWOMAN. If she's her same old self, I don't think she'll get much work for a while.

    Once again. 2 hours. 15 characters. YOU do better. If you somehow give them all the same exposure, then you have people *****ing because Wolverine and Jean Grey weren't fleshed out enough.

    Then contact Halle Berry. Storm IS being written properly. The Storm in X-MEN is a mutant with special powers, not an African goddess. So, her character, as such, is being written quite well, I think. It's not anyone else's fault that Halle butchered the role in X-MEN, and waltzed through it in X2.
     
  16. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    I can't possibly say anything more (or better) than what The Guard has already said, so I guess the simple thing is just to say "I'm with him."

    Since he is my favorite X-Man I would of course liked to see more of Cyclops, but Guard makes some great points about this being an ensemble cast that I really can't argue with. He was really given as much to do as you might expect from him. It would have been nice to get it longer of course, but it still hits all the key points of his character.

    Wolverine sells tickets. He is the most mainstream and popular member of the X-Men and has more appeal to "Joe Moviegoer" than anyone else in the world. It makes good sense he would be the focus character of sorts and I do not expect that to totally change and as a result I won't be among the moaners when he has more time than Cyclops. I'm hoping for a lot more of Scott in X3, but he can get a lot more and still leave plenty of time for the most popular character.

    If you go into a comic book movie expecting to this and that from the comic books you've read and the history you know, 10 times out of 10 you are going to be disappointed on some level. I bet any comic book fan (not just Storm) would enjoy these movies more on the whole if they wouldn't go in expecting a bunch of stuff they have read about. I won't deny that they may also get more out of some parts, but I bet the balance doesn't quite work out most of the time.

    Case and point with Storm (the character just to be clear) here. In the movie she is in no way shape or form a worshipped goddess. Sure hardcore comic book fans know this, but that doesn't mean it's in the movie character. These are adaptations as you all know, which means the writers, directors and whoever "adapt" the material for the big screen. If something is not adapted into the movie version of the character that means it is not there, it isn't hiding in the background waiting for an obscure reference or for it to suddenly happen—it's not there. Period, end of script.

    I've said I don't know how many times on how many different boards around here that these "comic book" movies must have mainstream appeal and cannot cater to every fan wish. Case ans point, Wolverine and company would have looked completely ridiculous in their comic book costumes so it was changed. The piping on each uniform matches the colors of the character and that's good enough for me.

    X2 hasn't made hundreds of millions of dollars off of hardcore comic book fans. Casual moviegoers had to want to see it too.
     
  17. Emerald Archer

    Emerald Archer From the Inner Sanctum

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    I've seen this movie before, this is the part.....

    OK, let me jump in here and make a statement as a casual X-Men viewer. I stopped reading the title many years ago when I determined that I would need a Cray Super-Computer to keep track of all the bizarre plot twists and machinations that took place in the multiple X-Men titles.

    So, I think as far as an X-Man film goes I remember the X-men of the 60's and the seventies, and very little about he group in the last 10 years. I can't for the life of me see where the characterization of Scott Summers is so fantastic. Especially in the first film he seems like a petulant cry baby thats is so insecure in his relationship with Jean that he act's like a complete snot towards Logan. He demonstrates leadership? Where???? With rare exception in the two films the X-Men act as individuals and not as a team. I know that Scott is suppose to be the field leader of the group, but I know that from the comics, not from the movie. From the movies I see the following:

    1) Scott is insecure. When he is in a leadership position he is constantly afraid that Wolverine is undercutting his position.

    2) Wolvie seems to lead the group on several occasions. During the raid at Xavier's School it's Logan that takes command.

    3) During the hunt for the mutant that we later call Nightcrawler, Storm seems to be leading the forces.

    I have no problem with the X movies per say. I've been down this road with Hollywood. They have to dilute the product to sell it to a larger audience. But let us not wear rose colored glasses and pretend that we are seeing something here we are not. Scott Summers in both movies is, AT BEST, a wooden petty character that Jean would do well to be rid of. I mean in the scenes between the two of them, am I the only one that sees no chemistry? Between Logan and Jean, sure! Scott and Jean...nope. Look at the subtle sexual tension between Toby McGuire and Kirsten Dunst in Spider-Man. That worked, and it worked great. You could believe that a beauty like Mary Jane was interested in Peter because he was the only one that treated her like she wanted to be treated, with no pretense. I don't see what Jean finds attractive in Scott. And I see no leadership ability as well.

    Bottom line. As a casual X-Fan I think Scott was treated poorly in these films, and yes, it's because these films really are about Wolverine. But in the future that could become a problem. When the Batman films became less about Batman and more about the villains the movies tanked. The same could happen her, if the movies become Wolverine with Special Guest Stars the X-Men, I think the same thing might happen.........

    Calling them as I see them
    Even if I am blind as a bat:)
     
  18. The Guard

    The Guard No Matter The Cost

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    Crybaby? When? Scott is acting like a "snot" towards Logan because Logan has been a sarcastic ass toward him since day one. Scott does his best to get along with Wolverine, and he's hardly that insecure, at least in X-MEN. Hell, one of his lines is "Well if I had to say that, she wouldn't be my girl. He then fires a sarcastic "Logan. Stay away from my girl." Toward the end, he believes that Wolverine will "endanger the mission" in X-MEN, but he has his reasons. Namely that Wolverine hasn't been all that effective against the Brotherhood to that point.

    It could be argued that Scott is in charge when he and Storm rescue Logan and Rogue. I believe it was Scott that designed the plan to attack Liberty Island. He flew the X-Jet. It was Scott who told everyone where to go. It was Scott who made the decision to take a risky shot at the end. It's Scott that comes right out and says "If anything happens, I want you to know I'll take care of them". That's leadership.

    I disagree, but then the X-Men have never been the Justice League. They've always been something of an eccentric family unit, squabbling among themselves and not entirely trusting each other. But they all have the same goals in the end. The teamwork was apparent in X2, to a much larger degree. In X-MEN it was there. Scott and Storm used plenty of it in the opening sequences with Sabertooth. Then, look at them work together in the end battle, and their free-associating about what to do about Magneto's machine at the end. And the way Jean used her powers to aid Scott in getting rid of Sabertooth.

    Any unmarried man in a situation where his girl is being wooed by a handsome, dangerous man is insecure to a certain degree. That's just a fact. I don't see a fear that Wolverine is undercutting his position.

    Of course he took command. Storm and Jean were looking for Nightcrawler, and Cyclops and Xavier were visiting Magneto. Who's going to lead the team? Bobby? Rogue? Colossus? (although he did show some leadership) Wolverine is the adult, he feels he has a duty to protect those students.

    I don't think so. It's Jean who pilots the X-Jet, calls out to Nightcrawler, and then instructs Storm to use her powers to flesh him out. It's Jean who holds Nightcrawler there with her powers.

    Yeah. A guy who loves her that much, cares so much about his teammates, and tends to come through in the clutch. She should dump him like that.

    There's chemistry in X2. Lots of it. There weren't many Jean/Scott scenes in X-MEN. It's obvious though that they care for each other, such as when he blasts the slime off her face in X-MEN and they share a "moment".
     

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