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"Wonder Woman (2011 Ongoing)" Series Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Comics and Collectibles' started by James Harvey, Sep 21, 2011.

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Rate and Comment - "Wonder Woman"

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  1. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    And there are boatloads of people who are illegitimate children of Zeus. Still, I think that underscores that it's not super original. I don't see it as any improvement on her old origin.

    Also, Wonder Woman has literally been given "daddy issues," here. Seriously, sometimes I think the real editorial staff at DC is a bunch of fratboys giggling and trying to see what they can get away with.

    Finally, I hate when DC Comics gets too into the Greek mythology stuff, beyond just using it for a few superhero trappings. It's just boring. They somehow manage to make it boring. Check out War of the Gods for many examples. I don't know why, other than Kirby of course, Marvel was able to make Asgard thrilling but DC took myths that should have been equally compelling and made them dull.
     
  2. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    Well, that adds an additional layer of creepiness to Hercules raping Wonder Woman's mother. Or is that no longer a part of the Amazon Island's back story?
     
  3. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu That's 'Cause I ATE IT!!!
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    I don't know, I thought that the George Perez update did a great job of tying Diana more to her Greek mythology roots (and making them explicitly Greek, as opposed to the Greek/Roman mishmash that William Moulton Marston used). The DTV movie also did a great job tying Diana into the larger scheme of Greek gods and mythology. I don't dispute that it's been done badly in the past, but I can't hold crappy comics against the entire story element in principle. If that were the case, then I'd have to dump on almost everything Greg Rucka or Ed Brubaker do on books like Batwoman or Queen & Country or Incognito just because of all those really, truly terrible grim-n-gritty comics.

    Jack Kirby and Walt Simonson made the Norse myths compelling because 1) they're awesome, and 2) they were doing their thing exclusively. They could tell a story, singular, and focus. "War of the Gods" was just another crappy crossover event, writing by committee almost by definition, and that never turns out well no matter how compelling the source concepts are.

    I don't think it's an improvement on the original origin, but I don't think that the origin itself is so uniquely tied to Wonder Woman and who she is that the change takes anything away from her, either. Wonder Woman's origin story has always struck me as the "how" variety rather than the "why" variety. It exists to explain how she can do what she does, but has little to nothing to do with the "why" and thus can be mostly ignored in the actual month-to-month serial story if you want to play it that way.

    Anyway, it's still just an element in the abstract. I'm also not seeing the problem with giving Diana "daddy issues" in and of itself. That's just as played out as a story element as Greek mythology and comic books (Batman has daddy issues, too, after all), but the way you're talking about it you're making it sound like it's another element in the parade of shameful treatment of women in DC of late.

    Based on issue #1, I'm going to say it's not part of the story any more, but these days who knows? I think Dan Didio is making it all up as he goes along and hoping nobody will notice.
     
  4. Bat-Fan Beyond

    Bat-Fan Beyond Active Member

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    I actually liked the short-lived black pants on Wonder Woman and would not have minded if they kept them. At the same time, when I see images as beautiful as this, I wouldn't mind seeing Wonder Woman in a star-spangled skirt either. Especially when drawn by Jim Lee.


    http://www.comicartcommunity.com/ga...26&sessionid=b9b3a05c6432289af4d4cad197363c99


    I haven't been reading the current WW title. I'm a big fan of horror and dark artwork, and I really don't think that the art by Chiang is bad per se, but like Azzarrello's story concept, it just doesn't appeal to me. It's not what I would have preferred for a Wonder Woman series. A little too gritty for what WW should be, and not dynamic enough.
     
  5. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
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    Discover the Paradise Island of the new DC Universe!

    WONDER WOMAN #2

    [​IMG]

    Written by BRIAN AZZARELLO
    Art and cover by CLIFF CHIANG


    Hera, Queen of the Gods, does not take her vengeance lightly – and if Wonder Woman is so foolish as to stand in the way of her whim, then Wonder Woman is her enemy. But it’s Hera’s daughter Diana should truly fear – the goddess of discord is coming to Paradise Island, and murder always follows in her wake!

    Comments?
     
  6. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    #2 was good, not too much happened like in #1, but it was still good. I really like Hera's daughter, her powers seem cool, and I like the reveal that she's a giant (and Hera by extension). The dick joke during Wonder Woman's game with the other Amazon was sly and funny. Also, when I read this I hear Susan Eisenberg's WW in my head, which didn't happen when I read previous WW stories. Oh, and WW's mom is quite the hypocrite, can't wait to see what happens next.
     
  7. DisneyBoy

    DisneyBoy Searchin' My Soul

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    This new take on the character seems to be making everyone else in the book much uglier. Hippolyta is back to being unapprochable, Zeus is a rapist again, Hera is pissed to the point of being scary...



    Well, Diana (especially under Rucka) was Athena's Champion. Now that Zeus is apparently her father, she's a member of of the pantheon like Heracles and the other kids. So, in that sense, I don't see Athena being able to order her around or send her on missions. She'll probably have a "home" in Olympus now. Or maybe that's the thing Azz is eventually having her work towards...

    Making Zeus her father also ties her into a more masculine place. Before, she was a woman born of women and women alone. Now, her father's - in theory - more powerful than her. The "Big Bad Evil Daddy" thing has been done many times before, so while people may have found her original origin a little abstract, it was more unique. Now, is she doing good things to make up for the fact that her father's a jerk?

    I'm upset because they've changed something subtle at her core. It's not about pants vs no pants (which yes, did spark debate and does speak to the character on a metaphorical level) as much as "Does she stand for women in a new way"? I don't think she does anymore. She's not some symbol for the power of women the way she once was.

    Call me crazy, but I think you can write a contemporary, approachable, fun, gritty Wonder Woman story without changing things that have been cherished for 70 years.​
     
  8. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    That last part is obviously not true since she doesn't even know that Zeus is her father.

    Why does she have to stand for women at all? If women can take away something from Wonder Woman, and get inspiration or feel empowered, than great, but I don't think that should be her main purpose.
     
  9. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu That's 'Cause I ATE IT!!!
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  10. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    I agree with pretty much everything you're saying. But I just don't want the idea of Wonder Woman being a symbolic, iconic character to the masses, get in the way of telling good stories with her.
     
  11. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
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    The new DC Universe origin of Wonder Woman is revealed! This changes everything!

    WONDER WOMAN #3

    [​IMG]

    Written by BRIAN AZZARELLO
    Art and cover by CLIFF CHIANG


    Hippolyta, the queen of the Amazons, has kept a secret from her daughter all her life – and when it’s revealed, Wonder Woman’s life will shatter like brittle clay. The only one more shocked than Diana by this revelation? Bloodthirsty Hera herself – so why is her sinister daughter, Strife, so eager for the truth to be told?

    Comments?
     
  12. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    This was a good issue, but kinda boring since DC felt the need to spoil it to the press 2 months early. Especially since this was mostly exposition and brief history lesson. I have a feeling though this story will read better in trade.

    The Amazons insulting Wonder Woman was different since in the past they always seemed so lovey-dovey. A like this different take though. Because realistically they all wouldn't just love Diana automatically and she did kinda bring death to the island. But Wonder Woman punching that one Amazon mid-insult was awesome.
     
  13. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
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    Wonder Woman....daughter of Zeus? How has Wonder Woman's true origin changed her?

    WONDER WOMAN #4

    [​IMG]

    Written by BRIAN AZZARELLO
    Art and cover by CLIFF CHIANG


    Wonder Woman has left Paradise Island behind, but Hera is just arriving. Without the Amazons’ most powerful daughter to protect them, can they withstand the wrath of a God who once favored them? And why would Zola want Diana to march right back into the eye of the storm?

    Comments?
     
  14. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    I have to say - the new origin really makes sense and adds a great twist to Wonder Woman. I think it helps her character. And while they didn't keep the pants, I do hope DC keeps this change to her origin. The art is just amazing here too! Chang's art actually reminds me a little bit of Christopher Jones' art.
     
  15. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
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    Recent revelations rock Wonder Woman to the core!

    WONDER WOMAN #5

    [​IMG]

    Written by BRIAN AZZARELLO
    Art by TONY AKINS


    Wonder Woman has returned home to London…but leaving Paradise Island doesn’t mean leaving the gods behind, as two of the most powerful deities of the pantheon have come to town – and neither of them is leaving without being crowned King of the gods!

    Comments?
     
  16. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    I missed Chang on the art this month but this was still a good issue overall. I was surprised to see that Wonder Woman could land on the water. Could she do that before? Not as good as last month but I think that is partly because of the weak art. This continues to be a pretty surprising book. I can honestly see why long-time Wonder Woman fans dislike it but I am really enjoying this.
     
  17. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
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    The first story-arc wraps up!

    WONDER WOMAN #6

    [​IMG]

    Written by BRIAN AZZARELLO
    Art by TONY AKINS


    Hades and Poseidon both have designs on the kingdom their brother Zeus left behind, but Wonder Woman doesn’t intend to let their turf war decimate the realm of man! It’ll take a big lie and some help from the mystery man known as Lennox to stop a holy war from breaking out – but what does Lennox know that Wonder Woman doesn’t?

    Comments?
     
  18. Mattashell

    Mattashell Before punk,there were NUGGETS

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    Wonder Woman #7


    Wonder Woman #7 : Il Gangster Dell'amore
    Wonder Woman and her crew are introduced to Eros and Hephaestus, the latter of whom WW doesn't take an immediate liking too. I remain shocked at how adept Azzarello is to myth when crime fiction is known to be his forte. Our version of a modern Eros reminds me of Gaiman's Desire. Indeed this arc reminds me a little of Season of Mists. Cleverly Eros' bow and quiver have been replaced by a pair of golden pistols. But the real interesting character in this issue is Hephaestus, who's servants are not cyclops, but rather male amazons! ****
     
  19. Mattashell

    Mattashell Before punk,there were NUGGETS

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    Wonder Woman #8: Casting Shadows
    Wonder Woman and Hermes venture into the Greek underworld in search of their friend whose been captured by Hades with the intent of holding WW to a deal made under duress. Certainly Sandman fans or anyone familiar with mythology will be reminded of Orpheus' famous visit to the underworl. Azzarello and Chang's insanely original take on the Greek pantheon is fascinating, and the story has kinks and twists at every turn like a great crime film noir. Fantastic ending. ****
     
  20. Mattashell

    Mattashell Before punk,there were NUGGETS

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    Wonder Woman #9: The Dearly Beloved
    Previously Wonder Woman had borrowed a pair of pistols from Eros, only to have them used against her by Hades (with the bullets having similar effects to Eros’s famous arrows of classic myth.) Hades seeks to wed Wonder Woman for political gain and this issue is all about preparing for the wedding and WW’s allies, led by Hephaestus, considering what they can do about it. There’s some great wordplay involving Strife (Eris) and Hades, and my favorite bit was a scene with a very bored and jaded War (Ares). In this issue we are introduced to Azzarello’s take on Persephone, Aphrodite, Kronos and the Gorgons (which are nothing like Greg Rucka’s Gorgons from the pre-New 52 DC.) This issue delivered my fix of this fascinating series, but nothing much happened this time around, and (even though it is the normal page count) it felt short. ****
     

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