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When did Scrappy-phobia begin?

Discussion in 'Saturday Morning Forever!' started by Washu-Chan, May 31, 2010.

  1. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    But the difference is that Charlie Brown's baseball team always loses. Mystery Incorporated always wins, and they do so in large part because of Fred's leadership. And, again, Fred often still took the action guy role, even when it would have been easier for them to follow the live action movie and make Daphne a kung fu master.

    The way you keep going on about "manliness" just makes me think you won't be satisfied with him unless he's the perfect Gary Stu tough guy without any flaws. That's not all that interesting to watch, though, and doesn't really fit in with a comedy show for kids.

    Your positions just seem contradictory and hard to sort out to me. I could understand if you were just a nostalgic fan who wants everything to be like it was in 1969 forever. But you're only like that on some things, on other things you're happy to accept much more drastic changes.

    Oh, we have seen Fred's parents. They were major characters in Scooby Doo! Pirates Ahoy! at least.
     
  2. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member

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    Well, I said the dopey spoof rubbed off on him, meaning that yes, they changed him back to some extent and made him the leader again, but there are still these elements that don't fit him.
    Uh, no...
    ...and that's more like it. ('72-3 would be good as well).
    Because I realized it couldn't stay the same forever, so what was most important was the character roles (certain key elements of them, atleast), and the "changes" were simply temporary and different formats that gave it a rest for awhile; and I guess you're also including Daphne, but I explained why that change was not out of character.
     
  3. Mister Intensity

    Mister Intensity Active Member

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    I doubt the romance is going anywhere because the target audience they are aiming the show at likes to ship and match up characters. I'm curious how the producers handle the romances. I doubt Scooby-Doo is going to turn into a mushy show but I do think the addition of a little romance is another attempt at changing the format to suit the times like the addition of Scrappy, the shift into the comedy chase format, shorter, mysteries, thirteen ghosts, etc.
     
  4. KJ Styles

    KJ Styles The Instant Classic

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    I said the EXACT SAME THING at the beginning of this thread, sans the last line.

    I don't get the Cousin Oliver/Scrappy comparisons at all. The Brady Bunch was cancelled after Oliver joined the cast, whereas Scooby-Doo's ratings skyrocketed when Scrappy was added to the show.

    All that said, I wouldn't compare Jabberjaw or any of the Scooby Clones to it. Even if it would have ended in 1979, that would still have been 10 years on SatAM, which is more than all the clones had combined.
     
  5. Washu-Chan

    Washu-Chan Member

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    I agree with that statement. This is what the Scrappy-bashers seem to overlook.

    I'm guessing that around that time when Scooby-Scrappy was on ABC, "Where Are You!" and "The Scooby-Doo Show" entered syndication. Is that right?
     
  6. KJ Styles

    KJ Styles The Instant Classic

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    Yes you are correct, "The New Scooby-Doo Movies" was also in syndication at that time.

    If any character is responsible for killing the original Scooby-Doo franchise, I'd say it's Flim Flam. He was far more annoying than Scrappy ever was IMO.
     
  7. Mister Intensity

    Mister Intensity Active Member

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    Historically, this statement is more accurate since The 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo only lasted one complete run of episodes before being cancelled in favor of Laff-A-Lympics reruns. Although the cancellation is probably due to a more radical change in the formula than the viewers at the time were ready to see than any one character.
     
  8. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member

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    I'd say Flim Flam was more closer overall to Cousin Oliver. (A little boy).
     
  9. Silverstar

    Silverstar Rock the Dragon

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    You're taking the term too literally. A 'Cousin Olvier' is any character added to a cast in later seasons of a show whose presence was clearly manufactured by the producers to breathe new life into a show but usually ends up disrupting the natural order of things and annoys fans more than they entertain.

    How could Flim Flam have killed the original Scooby-Doo franchise when a) the original lineup, story structure and formula had already been tampered with by the time he debuted, and b) he was only used in 1 series and was never seen, heard from or even referred to again? That's like saying Googie ruined Scooby-Doo. Flim Flam wasn't around long enough to make a dent in the Scooby franchise, let alone kill it.
     
    #109 Silverstar, Jun 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2010
  10. Tobias

    Tobias Who you gonna call?

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    I think what killed Scooby in the mid-80's was ABC wanting to overhaul their entire lineup from the ground up. If I recall, virtually every show on ABC's lineup from that season was cancelled, replaced, or just generally wiped off the map by the end of the summer season.

    Then in 86, a new generation of shows was introduced, maybe because ABC felt that they wanted to introduce a new generation to Saturday Mornings, and felt that their lineup, which consisted of cartoons and shows that had been around for a good decade or so, was skewering too much towards the adults that had grown up on Scooby Doo, Star Wars, Superfriends, and American Bandstand.
     
  11. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member

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    I know that. I'm just saying that in addition, Flim Flam actully fit the actual profile of Cousin Oliver more than Scrappy did.

    Ah, so maybe that's why the once proposed next Scooby with Scooby Dee returning for that season was scrubbed.
     
  12. KJ Styles

    KJ Styles The Instant Classic

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    Well, "13 Ghosts Of Scooby-Doo" was the last series in the original Scooby franchise, and Flim Flam was the most annoying/disliked character on the show. Also, as Mr Intensity pointed out, the show was cancelled without even being re-run on ABC after the 13 episodes aired. You can't compare him to Googie because she only appeared in one movie, and most people don't even remember her whereas everyone who's ever seen "13 Ghosts" remembers Flim Flam.

    Overall, I liked 13 Ghosts personally, but Flim Flam is the weakest character in Scooby history IMO and is the number one reason why most people were turned off by the show. You can't blame Scrappy, because he had already been part of the franchise for 6 years before 13 Ghosts and his personality had mellowed out by that point.
     
  13. Mister Intensity

    Mister Intensity Active Member

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    I'm not saying that Flim Flam killed Scooby-Doo, I'm saying that Flim Flam fits the profile as the character who killed Scooby-Doo than Scrappy. Personally, I don't feel either character is responsible for ending the show because after 16 years, the show has simply ran its course.
     
  14. KJ Styles

    KJ Styles The Instant Classic

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    Yeah, in hindsight that's true. That coupled with the fact that ABC cancelled every SatAM show that year except The Bugs Bunny & Tweety Show.
     
  15. TnAdct1

    TnAdct1 Ravioli, Ravioli

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    Don't forget the Ewoks (although that show was moved to late in the lineup).
     
  16. Goldstar Neo

    Goldstar Neo Good Morning!

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    I would like to have seen how 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo would have been if Fred and Velma had been allowed to participate. I didn't think that series needed Scrappy or Flim-Flam, even if Scrappy had mellowed a bit by this time. The concept of taking the evolution of the Scoobyverse 1 step further by having the gang hunt down real ghosts was enough of a departure from the status quo.
     
  17. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    I think that even Flim Flam is a better character than Scrappy. Yeah, I said it. Even Flim Flam. At least his con artist gimmick had more potential than Scrappy's naked aggression, and he had the courtesy to go away after one season.

    Also, we need to acknowledge a key point here. Scrappy Doo is Henery Hawk. Mark Evanier has admitted this. He's not even an original addition to the cast, he's just a ripoff.

    Also, I realized the commercial I posted early wasn't even the most egregious example. More evidence of how Cartoon Network thinks of Scrappy is in how they killed him off and abused his corpse as a running gag in Harvey Birdman.

     
    #117 Shawn Hopkins, Jun 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2010
  18. Washu-Chan

    Washu-Chan Member

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    Looks like that the Cartoon Network execs at the time had drank the anti-Scrappy Kool-Aid.

    I wonder if the anti-Scrappy sentiment has shown signs of weakening currently, as shown when they named Scrappy Boomeroyalty? I know that the sentiment still exists (as shown by Warner Home Video's reluctance to display Scrappy anywhere on the cover).
     
  19. KJ Styles

    KJ Styles The Instant Classic

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    I think all the people obsessing about how much they hated Scrappy are dudes with no lives personally. If I hate a character so much that I thought it brought the quality of the show down, I don't obsess over how bad that character is, I just simply stop watching the show.

    As has been mentioned several times in this thread, whether or not you like Scrappy or not, the fact remains that Scooby-Doo's ratings increased when he was added to the cast, hence prolonging the series. Had he not been added, the show likely would have ended much sooner than it did and it likely wouldn't have gotten as many revivals and DTV's as it has over the years.

    So for those who think Scrappy lowered the quality of Scooby-Doo, then you're entitled to feel that way, but to say that he killed the series couldn't be further from the truth given the ratings boost.
     
  20. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member

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    I often wonder why they didn't just restore the gang then. I think even moreso, for the Boo Bros. You had two other Scooby "Superstar 10" movies with just Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy. Why couldn't the other one of this "franchise representative" series have the original gang (It would have worked well in that one, and have been like classic Scooby. They wouldn't have worked in the other two, which are basically rextended "Scary Scooby Funnies")

    It seems like they tested bringing them back in the six episodes in which they guest starred. Apparently, it must not have done well in the ratings, or whatever feedback. Apparently, the viewing public was not ready to go back to the original format yet.
    While we Scooby fans might want everything to be like the beginning, we must remember that the biggest criticism of Scooby was being "the same old thing over and over". (Hence, the changes saving the show). So the new format preserved the "spooky" premise, and the new, scaled down and retooled cast made it not the same old thing.
    Among the internet fans, it surely has! The fact that we can have a discussion like this, with fans of him coming out in defense, and not only not 99% bashing him (and me the only one defending him), but every single thread on Scooby period turning into a Scrappy bashfest. That's the way it was back in the wild west days of usenet (Alt.animation.cartoonnetwork, etc) and jumptheshark.com a decade ago. And outside the discussions; the internet flooded with almost every Scooby fansite bearing that stupid ribbon someone created.

    It was crazy! I couldn't for the life of me figure what all of this was about, and why so many people would hate a rather positive character so much. Even more that all these other so-called "Cousin Olivers" who made shows "jump the shark". There was no other person or character on the internet so hated to even have a symbol created like that!

    But this gives us an idea of why the thinking would spread to CN and its animation producers. They're trying to reflect what the general population thinks about the character, and would think would be funny or amusing to be done with him. So yes, the atmosphere today is quite a turnaround!
     
    #120 Eric B, Jun 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2010

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