1. View our list of the Top 10 Characters That Need a DC Animated Film. Click here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. We are looking for a volunteer to help out with entering the DC and Marvel comics solicitations. If you are interested, please contact Harley.
    Dismiss Notice

When did Scrappy-phobia begin?

Discussion in 'Saturday Morning Forever!' started by Washu-Chan, May 31, 2010.

  1. Washu-Chan

    Washu-Chan Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    1
    For years, Scrappy-Doo has been one of the most controversial characters to the Scooby-Doo franchise.

    I don't understand the hatred towards Scrappy-Doo. When I watched him back when I was young, he seems to be decent. During my high school years in 1997, when I was on one of the school computers to search for Scooby-Doo info, I was surprised at the amount of hatred he received, as indicated by the anti-Scrappy ribbons that they posted on their pages. Let's just say that it's gotten worse to the point where even Warner Bros. became aware of the backlash the character has received and tried to avoid mentioning Scrappy-Doo on the DVDs of the shows, and worse, turned him to the head villain of the first live-action movie.

    When did Scrappy-phobia start? I'm guessing that the seeds were planted in the early 80s, when Scooby and Scrappy were still on ABC, and the various Scooby shows entered syndication.

    And for my stance, I'm neutral.
     
  2. Maxie Zeus

    Maxie Zeus Upside Down
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    6,795
    Likes Received:
    1
    In my case, Scrappy-phobia started within five minutes of his first television appearance. Seriously.

    I guess I was about nine years old when Scrappy debuted, and I remember being really excited that the network was putting on a new "Scooby Doo" show. Scooby was my second-favorite Saturday morning cartoon (after Bugs/Roadrunner), and I was eagerly looking forward to new stories.

    And the show started, and suddenly there was this little runt dog with a horrible voice and an annoying catchphrase ("Puh-huppy! Puh-hower!"), and he kept taking the spotlight off Scooby and Shaggy and he kept the mysteries from being scary. And when it was over I went outside and wandered around in the yard a bit and tried to convince myself it wasn't that bad. I couldn't.

    I watched two or three more episodes, just to see if they would get any better. They didn't. And after that I never watched any more Scooby Doo cartoons, except for the old ones in syndication. I remember feeling like something in me had died, that something I had loved had slipped away and could never be recovered.

    If I could stomp that little dog to death, I would. The only really good thing about the Scooby Doo movie was that it made Scrappy the villain. Me and the friend I saw it with laughed our asses off at it.
     
  3. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Messages:
    29,444
    Likes Received:
    0
    I also hated him as a child. It seemed like after he was introduced all Scooby and Shaggy go to do was run after him and keep him out of trouble, and I resented him for that. Also, I guess two unconfident scaredy cats were more relatable to me as a kid than Scrappy's psychotic bravery and confidence.
     
  4. KJ Styles

    KJ Styles The Instant Classic

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't understand the hatred for Scrappy either. He was a fun, entertaining character IMO. The yin to Scooby and Shaggy's yang so to speak. While they were cowards, he was brave. I liked that quality about him. People should also not forget that he saved Scooby-Doo from potential cancellation. ABC told Scooby producers that they would cancel the show if the ratings didn't improve from the season before, and they jumped big time with the addition of Scrappy.

    About the only criticism I can make is that the season after Scrappy debuted, they got rid of Freddy, Daphne, and Velma which is something I didn't like. They should have kept the entire gang together along with Scrappy. That would have made the post-Scrappy seasons better. Daphne was brought back a few years later, but Freddy and Velma didn't return until A Pup Named Scooby Doo debuted (save for a couple appearances here and there). I also think that 13 Ghosts Of Scooby-Doo wouldn't have ended the original Scooby era if the original gang had stayed intact. We could have done without Flim Flam as well, but that's neither here nor there.

    Basically what I'm saying is that I didn't have a problem with Scrappy. In fact I liked him quite a bit. There were times when he made certain episodes. Puppy Power was one of the coolest catchphrases in toon history. I know haters are gonna cringe by hearing me say all that, but it's whatever. Scrappy was cool in my book.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Batman1

    Batman1 Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Intense hatred of a cartoon character? I admit that Scrappy Doo was not one of my favorite cartoon characters either, but, come on. There were people that I knew in college that their main goal in life was to destroy the Smurfs. People, we are supposed to be adults who like to discuss our mutual love for the cartoon s that we grew up with. If you do not like a certain cartoon character or show, that's fine. Just don't watch it.
     
  6. Grenzer

    Grenzer This is Kyokugen Karate... 2016 Style

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,828
    Likes Received:
    16
    It is true that the first few seasons that featured Scrappy were terrible, and Scrappy was a big source of those problems, but not the only source. However, he was an unwelcome intruder into the show dynamic, the animated equivalent of Cousin Oliver. Even as a kid watching those episodes on sydicated TV, Scrappy offended me to no end.

    The irony is that Scrappy became a far less annoying character over the course of the 1980's. By the end he was quite likeable, if bland. If he had just started out that way in his debut, he would probably not be so hated, and might still have a part in the franchise. But first impressions are just as important for TV characters as they are for real people, so Scrappy remains the eternally hated pariah of Scooby fans everywhere long after he stopped having any relevance to the franchise.
     
  7. Ioz

    Ioz Master of Mer

    Joined:
    May 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    1
    I think that is where most of the hate started to come in. He was basically seen as helping break up the original gang. I thought Scrappy was ok. I don't hate him, but don't love him either.
     
  8. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Messages:
    13,242
    Likes Received:
    98
    Scrappy came along a year after H-B had acquired a license to do a Godzilla series (for NBC), and gave Godzilla's nephew, Godzooky, a featured role. ABC suits, seeing this, perhaps put the idea in the heads of H-B execs to add something along those lines to Scooby-Doo to save that franchise from seeming extinction.

    Unfortunately, breaking up the core Mystery Inc. team, and subsequently turning Shaggy & Scooby (w/Scrappy) into a comedy team along the lines of Abbott & Costello or Laurel & Hardy, if you will, was the one decision that turned viewers against Scrappy. As I've noted in the past, casting Scrappy as the villain in the 1st live-action film (2002) was a nod to the haters on the internet. Daphne was brought back (1983) as a concession to the core fan base that leaving Shaggy & the Doos to fend for themselves wasn't the best of ideas. Fred returned for a Christmas episode (Nutcracker Scoob), and made at least 1 or 2 appearances during the 13 Ghosts season.

    Had they not taken that direction around 1980 and kept Mystery Inc. together, you probably wouldn't have as much hate.
     
  9. Washu-Chan

    Washu-Chan Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    1
    As for the Fred, Daphne, and Velma being pushed to the sidelines thing, by the time The Scooby-Doo show premiered, Scooby and Shaggy were given more screen time than the three.

    And they've already experimented with adding new characters, be it regular or one-shot characters (Scooby-Dum, Scooby-Dee, various relatives of Shaggy, Daphne, Velma, etc.).

    As for the live-action movie, I've read somewhere that it's basically a parody of the original series.
     
  10. RonDrakenfan17

    RonDrakenfan17 Luffy fan

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    10,665
    Likes Received:
    0
    Meh I didn't mind the guy.
    I felt bad for Shaggy and Scooby for having to deal with him, but didn't really hate him. Course I've put up with a lot of stuff over the Scooby years, as long as Shaggy and Scooby are in it fine, they've always been my favorites :p
     
  11. TheGunheart

    TheGunheart Darkness and Disgrace

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    0
    Never really hated him myself. Hell, I really don't like the ending of the SD movie because it relies so heavily on character derailment to set up the joke.

    My problem is more that he just didn't seem to mesh all that well. He seemed like he was in his own little world compared to the rest of the characters. No one really interacted with him except hold him back from trying to fight the monster.

    That said, he did technically save the show when it was on the verge of cancellation.
     
  12. kay

    kay Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    put me as another one who hated scrappy Doo.He yelled all the time and the only one he seemed to be nice too was scooby doo.someone else i hated and I dont know where he came from was scooby Dum.why mess with success
     
  13. Silverstar

    Silverstar Rock the Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    29,284
    Likes Received:
    131
    Much of the hatred toward Scrappy-Doo can be contributed to...timing! Bad timing, to be exact.

    Scrappy arrived on the scene at a time when Scooby and Shaggy began to get much, much more screen time and attention than Fred, Daphne and Velma, so when Scrap came on the scene, he took the audience's (and writers') attention even further away from them. Plus, as a character Scrappy was very annoying when he made his debut, and he really didn't mesh with the other cast members, not to mention that his presence changed the entire dynamic of the show. His inclination to pursue the fake ghost or menace of the week simply didn't work because it begged the question of why didn't the gang just smack the 'ghost' upside the head with a baseball bat the moment they first saw it? Not to mention reducing Scoob and Shag to being mere reluctant babysitters.

    Then to compound the problem, the producers eventually decided to lose Daphne, Freddy and Velma altogether and lose the mystery-solving angle, thus giving birth to what is possibly the single worst iteration Scooby's career: the shorts where he, Shaggy and Scrappy drove aimlessly around the countryside and were constantly being chased around by some menacing antagonist. Scrappy is seen as being the harbinger of all of these bad events, hence the animosity towards the character. (Not to mention that "Puh-uppy Puh-ower!" has to be one of the single most idiotic cartoon catchphrases ever invented; it's cringeworthy even by Saturday morning standards.)

    Scrappy somewhat redeemed himself by the time of 13 Ghosts and the TV movies; he wasn't nearly as annoying as he was in his debut, he had calmed down considerably and now he was keeping Shaggy and Scooby out of trouble instead of the reverse, but now he was just somewhat bland, basically a substitute for Fred, Velma and Daphne. Whereas before Scrappy was just a pain which stuck out like a sore thumb amongst Mystery, Inc., now if they had reunited the gang with Scrappy in it, in his later competent mystery solver form, he would've just been an additional and unnecessary appendage, just another Fred, Daphne or Velma character.

    I agree. While there are several cartoon shows and characters that I just plain don't like, I never got the practice of feeling that kind of burning animosity towards a drawing. When I was on TV.com and other forums, around the time Teen Titans was making first-run episodes and I was watching it (I basically fell out of love with the show and got bored with TT somewhere around season 4, but that's for another thread) there were people who violently and vehemently disliked the character of Starfire to the point where they were demanding her murder and dreaming up scenarios in which the character would be graphically killed or horribly mutilated. I've read similar posts from a user who really had a grudge against the Care Bears and the Little Ponies, whose rallying cry was "I hate them and I want them to die." Never mind that they're just fictional characters and therefore can't die because they were never alive to begin with. And I've had to read so much irrational bile spewed against Superman that it's not even funny.

    It's one thing to not like a character, or even to crack jokes about fictional entities which rub you the wrong way, but when I hear the manifesto from people who are sitting in a dark room plotting the best way to kill a drawing, that's when I slowly back away and consider calling the guys in the white coats.
     
    #13 Silverstar, Jun 1, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2010
  14. Sam Hill

    Sam Hill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    0
    Silverstar basically stated my reasons for my dislike for the character. Those seven minutes shorts where he would constantly get Scooby and Shaggy into trouble didn't exactly endear me towards him.
     
  15. Nickle98499

    Nickle98499 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    1
    As one of the younger Scooby fans and someone who grew up with Cartoon Network/TBS/TNT/Boomerang/USA Network reruns of Scooby Doo(i've been a fan since 1996), let me give everybody my two cents on the topic.

    Growing up with reruns of the show, I also grew up surfing the internet and locating as much information and trivia about the various Scooby shows and characters as possible(in my middle and high school years that is), and as a result during a lot of that time I encountered people who hated Scrappy.

    At first I didn't like Scrappy and would avoid certain episodes like the plague(the 1980-82 episodes and the 13 Ghosts especially); however reading some of the defenses of Scrappy and owning a dog that was a lot like him I changed my tune, I am now a Scrappy fan and I realize that he's as much of a part of the Scooby franchise as the other main characters, I'm even planning on using Scrappy in a few Scooby Doo fan fics i'm working on.

    While I like Scrappy Doo I can understand fans not liking him because of the timing of his introduction and I can understand people wanting to tear him to pieces(literally and figuratively) because in their minds he ruined the show; to those people I have this to say: think about the show and think about the fact that it had been for nearly a decade before Scrappy debuted.

    Look at what Hanna Barbera did with Scooby pre-Scrappy: they expanded the show to an hour, added guest stars, introduced minor characters(Scooby Dum), all to try and spice things up; remember, all TV shows no matter what genre they are in, or whether they are live action or animated, and no matter how long they run always have certain things added or subtracted depending on the situation or ratings; TV excutives have always liked playing around so to speak with their shows, it's the nature of the buisness, I know this because I know people who currently work in TV, albeit behind the scenes and not in management positions.

    I also spent about a year in college in a Broadcast Production program and learned the insides of the television buisness(oddly enough I attended classes at the building that currently houses one of the local PBS stations in my area and that used to house a TV station that oddly enough aired Scooby Doo syndicated reruns back in the 80's). While I didn't get a degree or certificate, I learned a lot about the buisness and hopefully someday i'll get to use what I learned.

    But that's neither here nor there, back to Scooby Doo; I do agree that changes could have been made that didn't involve Scrappy being included(like him not being in the 13 Ghosts and Fred and Velma being there instead; although in that show I didn't mind Flim Flam being there because he was a one shot/one season character, kind of like Scooby Dum for example). However those things didn't happen and you can't change history no matter what; Scrappy was introduced and he's a part of the franchise's history, there's really nothing anyone can do to change that, not executives, not fans, no one; again. to those of you who hate Scrappy, you have your opinion, but to say that he should die and those of you who liked the fact that he was the villain in the first live action movie, no offense but you probably need something better to do with your life then continually bash and wish death on a fictional character who's basically nothing more than ink on paper; for example, you could try volunteering a few days a week(like I do) at various places.

    Now I'm not saying Scrappy haters have no lives and things like that, but if that's all you can do is constantly pick on a fictional dog who's never done any harm in the first place, then you probably need to find something to do other than picking on a fictional character; again those are my opinions and you can take what you may from them, I just think people hating Scrappy to the extent of wanting to see him dead, or saying that he ruined your childhood is a bit too much.
     
  16. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Messages:
    2,847
    Likes Received:
    0
    The question of when and where all this hatred came from was always an interesting one. By the time I arrived on the internet, in the late 90's, I was alarmed at how rampant this was. Original voice actor Lennie Weinrib also stumbled upon an internet atmosphere that had shacked and dismayed him as well: http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2009_09_18.html#017744

    Before that, with no internet, there was no real way to gain the opinion of "everybody" besides those used in the ratings' system. The ratings system had apparently favored him back when they kept making new seasons with him for almost a decade.
    So of course, there would be some that liked him (as reflected by ratings), and those who did not like him. Even Evanier notes that this opposition seems to be from "folks who...are few in number but loud in voice". There seemed to be a lot of highly emotionalized appeals, such as post #2, where people claimed he ruined their childhoods, or "something in me had died", and all that. This somehow caught on in the early internet community of Usenet, and eventually, sites like jumptheshark.com, which I'm sure was probably something look to for influence of popular opinion.
    He also noticed, as I did, that a lot of the haters did not even like Scooby altogether. Again, on JTS, you could see a lot of people bashing Scooby from the getgo, and then add they wish Scrappy was killed. That obviously has nothing to do with "ruining the show"!

    The fans who hate him some much seem to be people born in the 70's, who did not watch the show from the beginning, and see the quality decline over the years. I myself remembered the fascination of waiting on Saturday mornings for the show to come on at 8 (CBS) in the first four seasons. When it moved to ABC, it simply became "whatever"; nice new idea; they saw the Loch Ness Monster we just watched the film in school on; and this other phantom looks like a KISS member", etc, and Dynomutt and Laffalympics segments were more interesting highlight.
    It took a few years to realize the subtle differences, and how the later ones were just not as good as the earlier ones; when the show was syndicated, and you could see the whole series together, and compare the first four seasons with the last three. Voices, changing group dynamic, music and music editing, sound quality even, and the plots and premise growing worn, while attempts to fix this with new types of monsters and settings only all made it worse; all this took away from the series slowly.

    So that when Scrappy was added, I did not see much difference from that last season without him. I was totally out of it by then. (Superfriends was the big thing then!)
    But to some younger person seeing the original two seasons and the last three ABC seasons together on ABC, or the entire series in syndication; each of those seven seasons would be just as "original" as the others. And the common theme would be the five original characters. So Scrappy was seen as "ruining" this, and of the earlier seasons, the Comedy Movies would usually be next on the list of criticism. 69, 70, 76, 77 and 78 were the "original", pure show to them. You can even see the influence of this mindset in some of the recent productions which reuse monsters from the Scooby Doo Show era, even more than the original series. And that that '78 season finally got packaged as a "third season" of the original SDWAY (as various sources had been mistakenly calling it for years), when the content is like night and day!
    To me, it was 69, 70, 72 and 73 that were more alike, and true to the essence of the show. The Movies were like a nice extension of it that added rather than taking away. 76 and especially 78 were when the show was gone, to me.

    So what difference did a new character in '79 make? That was what several other shows were doing anyway. Like others have noticed, the roles of Shaggy and Scooby changed considerably, and all they did was act like cowards, especially when the others always sent them out alone, and made them the bait. While they were always scared of ghosts, in the beginning, it was not like that, and Shaggy would tell Scooby not to be so scared, rather than them being equally "chicken". The others also seemed to respect them less in those last three seasons. Like they were good for nothing else than to send out to do the most dangerous work, and they almost never even found clues or helped explain the case anymore.

    So with all of this, they might as well give them their own new partner, and then, abandon the mystery format for chase. That's basically how those 1978 seasons were, only the premise pretended to be still about mystery and the original gang. It really wasn't anymore.

    So I came back to the new series' when I saw how it was gradially inching back to some of the original features. A semi-mystery format, with some original score even, in the '82 season, and then Daphne and the full mystery format, and Fred and Velma making guest appearances in the following two seasons.
    When the Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy only chase shorts were repackaged in the new '84 season making them look new, I watched, and finally saw the value in them (I thought they were incredibly boring when I saw the first few in 1980 and never looked back, but the stories did get better as those two seasons went on, especially when they started doing stuff like "Ahz" and "Wonderland"). Shaggy and Scooby shouted and ran from monsters just like they did in the 76-78 period, but these stories were short, and no longer pretended to be mysteries. That was the best package for that chase format, not a half-hour "mystery" with these three other characters having fallen into the background.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Nickle98499

    Nickle98499 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    1
    All good points, actually as I mentioned before I am one of the younger Scooby fans and while I couldn't really tell the difference between the older CBS shows and the ABC ones when I watched them in reruns(actually I didn't really mind the differences, because I was starting out as a fan I wanted to see as many of the episodes as possible, especially the ones that seemed to not get rerun a lot), as time went on I could definitely tell there were subtle changes in the art style of the series and the voices especially.

    Come to think of it, some of the 80-82 episodes did have good ideas, and I would have liked to see what they would have been like if those ideas were half hour episodes or even 11 minute shorts(a la 83 and 84) with the whole gang; actually, even though it may not have worked out all that great, I would have loved to see a half hour Scooby show maybe with two Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy shorts and then to appease the fans of the original show maybe a seven minute short with Fred and the girls running into a mystery or something similar(short mysteries were what Captain Caveman and the Teen Angels were at that point, so why not), or a half hour Scooby show with Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy solving a mystery or having their own adventure for the first half, and then Fred, Daphne and Velma solving their own mystery for the second half, maybe you could have shown what they were up to during the time when they didn't solve mysteries too, that might have made for an entertaining show.

    Watching some of the ABC shows in reruns though, it certainly seemed like that's what the show was going to be for a while, and while some people hated the format, the Shaggy Scooby Scrappy chase shorts probably were what was best for the franchise, at least to keep the execs happy and the show on; although if 1979 didn't happen and the show maybe went on a hiatus until 1983, and if the whole gang (without Scrappy) was around in 1983, 1984 and 1985 would things really have been that different? If the whole gang was around from 1983-1985, would we still be getting new shows and movies? I think yes, because Scooby was and will always be a popular character and because WB/Hanna Barbera always liked to bring back popular shows I think if Scrappy wasn't around or added to the show, I think we still would have gotten Zombie Island and some of the current movies, although I think some of them might have been a little different then we know them, but that's just me.
     
  18. Master Toon

    Master Toon Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    9,616
    Likes Received:
    0
    I mentioned the same thing to my brother a few days ago. At first I didn't hate Scrappy but when I got a little older I noticed that he was very annoying and burdensome. Not to mention that the quality of the show had gone down drastically (IMO).
     
  19. KJ Styles

    KJ Styles The Instant Classic

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    1
    I agree with you about the source of the hate. That was the writers' fault though. They thought that by bringing in Scrappy, that all they needed was him, Scooby, and Shaggy which couldn't be further from the truth. Had they kept the entire gang together, then Scrappy wouldn't have been looked at like Yoko Ono and he probably wouldn't have been as hated.
     
  20. Daikun

    Daikun Long Live the Fighter!
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,994
    Likes Received:
    271
    The definition that's being tossed around in this thread is misleading and mislabeled. It's not a "phobia." A phobia is a fear.

    People hate Scrappy out of annoyance, not fear.
     

Share This Page

  • Find Toonzone on Facebook

  • Toonzone News

  • Site Updates

    Upcoming Premieres

  • Toonzone Fan Sites


Tac Anti Spam from Surrey Forum