Watching DCAU in Chronological Order

Discussion in 'The DC Animation Forum' started by Gpoliceman, May 14, 2006.

  1. Gpoliceman

    Gpoliceman New Member

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    Now that JLU is over, I was thinking about how the writers did such an excellent job setting up Batman Beyond, so that way if a viewer wanted to watch the DCAU in chronological order, it kinda works out perfectly, except for one episode: Epilogue. If you removed Epilogue, you could watch the DCAU in chronological order.

    Start:
    Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
    Selected B:TAS episodes
    Sub-zero
    Selected S:TAS episodes
    "World's Finest"
    Selected TNAB episodes + Bats/Sups team-up episodes
    Mystery of the Batwoman
    "Legacy"
    Justice League Seasons 1-2
    Justice League Unlimited Seasons 1-3 (but REMOVE Epilogue)
    Batman Beyond Seasons 1-3
    Return of the Joker
    Place "Epilogue" here, as the final episode
    Stop.

    Say you showed someone who NEVER saw the DCAU the shows in this order, when they got to JLU's episode "The Once and Future Time", they would just be as shocked as GL and Bats to find out there is going to be a future incarnation of Batman and GL will have a son named Warhawk. So even though they wouldn't know anything about Terry, they would be intrigued to learn about him, who he is, where he comes from...

    ...then, the person who knows nothing of DCAU, will finally get to know Terry when they watch the Batman Beyond series, and later meet GL/Hawkgirl's son again in the BB episode "The Call". I actually think it would be better to meet Warhawk AFTER knowing all the baggage and conflict it brought to GL/Hawkgirl's relationship. Watching JLU, and then seeing "The Call" later would also verify that GL/HG did end up together and had a son.

    The only episode that would have to be taken out of JLU and shown later would be "Epilogue". That episode makes no sense unless you've seen Batman Beyond, so if you wanted to watch the series in chronological order, that's the only episode you'd have to move.

    I think watching the series in this order works great too. Here's some bonus reasons to watch the series in this order, instead of production order:

    1. Like I said above, I think meeting Warhawk in "The Call" AFTER knowing all the tension it brought GL/HG's relationship works better. It also would answer the question of whether or not GL/HG ended up together (which "Ancient History" left open-ended), because if a viewer saw "Ancient History", and then later "The Call", they would know what happened.
    2. Watching the series in this chronological order keeps the focus on Lex Luthor, and his character arc. It makes him the most important villain for the Justice League, without a doubt.
    3. Builds on Batman's "no-gun" policy (Dead Reckoning, Destroyer), leading up to his eventual use of one in BB's "Rebirth"
    3. Since nobody liked the bat-embargo, and no bat villains appearing on JLU, watching BB after JLU would finally let the viewer get to see old bat villains again (the ones that appeared on BB - Ras, Joker, Bane, Freeze)
    4. It starts with Batman and ends with Batman.
    5. Watching it in this order also works well for Terry's character. At the end of ROTJ, Terry learns he has to focus on the man he underneath the mask, not just his alter-ego, Batman. Then, in Epilogue, he finds a way to do this: By cherishing the relationships he has with other people, something Bruce could never understand.

    I think when I have children, and I force them to watch the DCAU (haha), I am going to show it to them in chronological order, not production order. If nothing else, it'll save me from having to make the series more complicated by explaining that BB was made before JL/JLU. And I think chronological works well.

    Greg
     
  2. Ullar

    Ullar R.I.P. Cap

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    great but slected episodes? and where are statci and zeta project?
     
  3. HaagenDas

    HaagenDas New Member

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    I thought Joker dies inbetween Starcrossed and JLU? It would explain why Batgirl, Robin and Nightwing are not in the JL.
     
  4. sdp

    sdp God

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    i was thinking about this same thing too,

    dont' forge Static Shock is in continuity too, epilogue would definately have to be last,

    I'm unsure about once and future thing, though the shock of seeing an old Bruce Wayne and new batman would be taken away from BB, also the revelation of Warhawk being GL and Shayeras son is not as big. but nothing too bad.

    What about Static Shocks cross over with BB though? would that be taken off as well? if its not then BB would no longer be any "shock" you'd know exactly what to expect from it...but maybe not.

    its definately an interesting idea.
     
  5. HaagenDas

    HaagenDas New Member

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    Joker dying after Starcrossed makes sense also because it shows how Teen Titans are NOT in continuity.
     
  6. sdp

    sdp God

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    what??

    but thanks for reminding me I personally think Teen Titans is obviously in continuity, there are too many facts to say it isn't so you'd have to start of with them first then B:TAS ;)

    more on topic i don't think watching Mask of the Phantasm first would be such a great idea....it shows his past in flashbacks but the main story does not take place i the past, in that case you would have to see just clips from a lot of episodes that have flashbacks to be 100% chronologically correct....
     
  7. Gpoliceman

    Gpoliceman New Member

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    oops

    I forgot all about Static Shock and Zeta Project.

    In all honesty, I've only seen a handful of Static episodes, plus the crossover episodes. I actually have never seen the Zeta Project (except the one BB/Zeta crossover episode), so I forgot all about those two shows.

    Sorry

    Also,

    When I said "selected episodes" I just meant "pick your favorite episodes", because if I was showing someone unfamiliar with the DCAU all the shows, I wouldn't really expect him/her to watch EVERY episode, so I would just pick the most important ones (story-wise), or my favorites.

    Also,

    If I was showing someone unfamiliar with the DCAU all the shows, I would still place ROTJ at the very end, because even if, technically, the Joker dies during JLU's timeline, if I slapped ROTJ in the middle of showing a person JL/JLU, it wouldn't make sense.
    Also, I don't really need an explanation as to why Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing never showed up in Justice League. Personally, I never thought Robin should appear in JL/JLU, because he's only, what? fifteen years old? and the JL is all grown-ups. Only Captain Marvel gets to slide on that age restriction, and that's because nobody really knows he's just a kid. And while I would love to know whatever happened to Nightwing, if either Batgirl or Nightwing appeared on JL, they would just be under Batman's shadow and almost like Bat clones. So I don't find it necessary to place ROTJ in-between JL/JLU to explain why the Bat-team never showed up in JL.

    If Nightwing should show up ever again, it should be in another Batman Beyond movie. That's the most logical storyline for him.

    Greg
     
  8. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 New Member

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    ROTJ could not have happened between "Starcrossed" and JLU, because according to "Epilogue", he used Cadmus nano-tech -- which did not exist until the second season of JLU.
     
  9. HaagenDas

    HaagenDas New Member

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    But didnt they use the nano-Tech to make Doomsday from Superman's DNA? Doomsday was in the JL series wasn't he? That's where the Justice Lords' Superman lobotamized him isnt it? If Doomsday was in JL, before JLU, then they obviously had the technology then.

    Also, who cares about Nightwing and Batgirl being in the shadow of Batman?After all, Supergirl was in the League and Superman stepped away from her. Also, I read that Huntress was put in by writers to put in a "Batgirl type character." (jl.toonzone.net). If they need a "Batgirl type character" then that means obviously they couldnt put in Batgirl for whatever reasons, probably because she gave it up, which means ROTJ already happened.

    One thing I didnt understand is how old Barbara Gordon looks in the Batman Beyond era. She is a lot younger than Bruce so she should be looking it too. She looks exactly the same when she met up with Waller in Epilogue. She should have looked a bit younger there at least, but I understand why the writers didnt make her that way...we probably wouldnt have recognized her then.
     
  10. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 New Member

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    Chronologically speaking, "Mask Of The Phantasm" should not be seen first; sure it's a great intro to the world of Batman - but if your strictly viewing them in the order they take place, then it obviously isn't the beginning. The flashbacks are nice, but they aren't the earliest we've ever seen, and the scenes that take place in the present obviously take place after many episodes of the series. For instance, the bat signal is in use during the movie, and it was introduced in an episode of the series ("The Cape & Cowl Conspiracy"). ;-0)

    Also, I would place "New Kids In Town" after "Epilogue". I know that parts of it take place during "The Last Son Of Krypton" 3-Parter, but all that's basically wiped out of Clark's memory - and it's a neat adventure to tuck in at the end. ;-0) At least I think it is.
     
  11. Joker1238

    Joker1238 New Member

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    Joker got the neo tects when he freed the Flush Gang from the Army base, on Wild Cards.

    Thats were I belive he got the Cadus thing.
     
  12. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 New Member

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    You're right that Babs should have looked younger in "Epilogue" - except that Barbara Gordon wasn't featured in "Epilogue"; & she didn't meet up with Waller in "Epilogue" - I believe the character that you thought was Barbara Gordon, was actually Andrea Beaumont ("The Phantasm"), who Waller hired to kill Terry's parents. The writers made her look as old as Bruce, because Andrea probably is the same age as Bruce.
     
  13. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 New Member

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    That makes a lot of sense! Thanks for that. :cool:
     
  14. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 New Member

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    Doomsday was a straight, old-fashioned clone (like Bizzaro). There was no nano-tech. Nano-tech did not exist at all until at least after Luthor teamed up with Cadmus (sometime after "A Better World"). Prior to that, it was only possesed in a crude form by Luthor (who got the technology from the late Dr. Ivo). The Ultimen were the FIRST nano-clones to be produced (in JLU season 1).


    That quote said that Huntress was supposed to be used on Batman Beyond as a "Batgirl-type character." It said nothing about JLU. The JLU Huntress was meant to go with Batgirl (and Black Canary) as a homage to the mainstream "Birds of Prey" comic. Originally, Batgirl was supposed to appear in "Double Date", but she was taken out when they discovered the Embargo.

    OMFG. That was so NOT Barbara!!!!!!!!!

    That was Andrea Beaumont, Bruce Wayne's ex-fiance turned serial killer from "Mask of the Phantasm." The grim reaper costume is the EXACT same costume from the movie.

    Barbara is not a murderer. Barbara was a cop. She would've had no part of that. Plus, on Batman Beyond, Barbara thought the city didn't need a new Batman. Why would she help create him, only to later threaten to arrest him for vigilantism?
     
  15. HaagenDas

    HaagenDas New Member

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    OK that makes sense about it being Beaumont, except for in the background it looks like Jim Gordon's picture on the wall? Why did they make her look like Barbara then too? Both of those details just dont make sense to me.:confused:

    That is cool about Batgirl supposed to be in Double Date. I wonder how the story would have wrtten out then? Mandegora (I believe it was he who is the bad guy, correct me if I am wrong) killed Huntress' parents when she was a young girl. Jim Gordon obviously lived well into Barbara's adulthood. Maybe that would have been the episode where Commissioner Gordon dies? If that happened, no way they would have kept Batman out of it.
     
  16. William C. Maune

    William C. Maune TZ News Editor in Chief

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    This is something I have also been pondering, basically the question of how best to watch the DCAU once I have all the DVDs. Personally, I don't like chronological order. For instance, I think Batman Beyond works better before Justice League. For instance, I think The Once and Future Thing Part 2 would work much better if Batman Beyond had already been viewed. I would argue for something close, but perhaps not quite, production order. Below is how I've sort of worked things out, but I'm definitely not set in stone.

    Batman: The Animated Series (original episodes, starting with "On Leather Wings")
    Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
    The New Adventures of Batman and Robin
    Batman: Subzero
    Superman: The Animated Series Season One (aka The first 13 episodes)
    The Batman/Superman Movie: The World's Finest
    A mix of the rest of Superman: The Animated Series and The New Batman Adventures.
    Superman: Legacy
    Batman Beyond: Seasons One and Two
    Static Shock: Season One
    Batman Beyond: Season Three
    Static Shock: Season Two
    Justice League: Season One
    Static Shock: Seasons Three (JL)
    Justice League: Season Two
    Static Shock: Season Four
    Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman
    Justice League Unlimited
    ?Superman: Brainiac Attacks? (will have to wait and see)
     
  17. BCVM22

    BCVM22 New Member

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    1. Inexplicable yet insignificant coincidence.
    2. Because the character designs of both women in their younger years were similar as well. Both were bonafide Timm-style women with red hair. Therefore, Andrea's older self would bear a resemblance to Barbara's older self. It's Andrea.
     
  18. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 New Member

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    Yep. They look so much alike that fans disagree whether the woman in the photograph on Bruce's computer in BB "Out of the Past" was Barbara or Andrea.

    Yeah, but the Bat Signal is such a cherished Batman trope that you really don't need to see it's first appearance. On one of the commentaries, b.t. mentioned that he fought against using the Bat Signal for a long time.

    Also it is difficult to take the silly B:TAS Joker seriously unless you have seen the bloodthirsty violent MOTP Joker first.
     
  19. BCVM22

    BCVM22 New Member

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    I'm of the belief that the photo was meant to be Barbara. If I recall correctly, in the photo she was wearing the black shirt and blue skirt that were Barbara's standard civilian clothing for TNBA.
     
  20. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 New Member

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    I agree with you.

    The Andrea faction cites as evidence the fact that Talia says, "I know you loved her", but Barbara's recollections to Terry implied a brief, sexual fling between her and Bruce. Thus the pic must be of Andrea Beaumont because she was his only true love.

    I think the Andrea faction is off their medication again. But that's just my opinion.
     

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