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"Venom" Pre-Release Discussion (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Marvel Live-Action Movies and Television' started by MDawg, May 19, 2017.

  1. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    I think the core of it was Eddie's article about Sin Eater being disproved by Spider-Man. Remove Spider-Man from the equation and twist it a little, maybe even make it a little conspiratorial, to feed into his 'lethal protector' vigilantism to right the wrongs done to him.

    Alternate reality cross overs someday...
     
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  2. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Yeah, without the obsession with Spider-Man and by making him the protagonist, you're going to have to focus on Venom as a "Lethal Protector." The key is just figuring out why he's like that without Spider-Man's involvement and giving him someone else to fight.

    Assuming Marvel and Sony are game. I know I am ;).
     
  3. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    They could straight up have the Sin Eater frame Eddie as the Sin Eater and killer of the judge and probably a stand in for DeWolff. The 'introduce the alien' component will be the bigger challenge, imo.
     
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  4. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    That'd actually be kinda cool, but I think you also need a threat that can actually give Venom a challenge, which Sin-Eater definitely is not :sweat:.
     
  5. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    All he needs is a pack of matches and a bell tower.
     
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  6. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

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    Like I've said before if you are going to make a Venom Spin off without Spider-Man here are some points they should have

    1. If you still want to have the powers, what you should have is the symobite actually absorb the radioactive spider during it's crawl around town before running into Eddie Brock. That way he would have a reason for having Spider powers and obviously Sony if making these movies still have all the rights to things related to Spider Man so you could have that in the movie to explain the move set.

    2. If you aren't going to have Eddie have the grudge against Peter Parker you could still have him as somewhat a desperate loser who is picked and abused by many in the world. To make him a proper anti hero he should have some connections to the world so he wouldn't want to kill everyone (part of me wonders instead of giving him a token friend and girlfriend stereotype, why no flip it with a female friend and a male lover? I know Brock isn't typically gay but I could see them going with that and I don't think Hardy would be totally against that) but he would be someone who would more embrace the symobite's deadly nature much more then Peter would but obviously would have limits to push which is where the inner conflict for it.

    3. And again if you want an antagonist for this movie, what they should do is have Cletus Cassidy show up as a psycho killer in the beginning of the movie that has some sort of connection to Brock like at least they sort of know each other. And at one point the symbotie breaks away from Brock and a piece of it reproduces and that piece goes onto Cassidy and turns him into Carnage. Thus when Venom resuites at the end you have the big battle at the end be Venom vs Carnage. That IMHO would be the best fit for a villain for Venom spinoff film to start off with. And yeah it's kind of a "movie hero vs movie villain with similiar powers" but Carnage and Venom are such different powers and honestly seeing the bruality of them besides in just a comic would be nice so I'm still rooting for that.

    Of course not all of this could happen but just some ideas I think would work for this movie.
     
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  7. Checkerboard

    Checkerboard THE HOME OF THE TOP TOON STARS

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    I would like those worried by the fact this is actually happening to forget everything and think outside the box for a minute. The film not being connected to MCU is actually an advantage. Marvel movies are well executed, but they're also quite boring at this point. The formula and visuals are similar if not the same. If Venom was in MCU by Marvel he would no doubt fight with Spider-Man and it would be the main focus, which is just predictable. Everyone expects that. But do people really want it? Being solo gives the project a lot more freedom and room to be something more original and authentic. Marvel makes films mainly for families, teens and kids. Mainstream stuff. Venom is neither of that to be frank and deserves better. There are so many ways they could write the plot and do it justice. Why do the same old and expected? If you're going to go straight to Spider-Man you're just going to rush it and waste an opportunity to do more. Build up instead. Do an origin story. You'd be surprised how many people have no clue who Venom is outside of the existing fanbase. Putting a Marvel logo next to him would just make it worse, because it would turn into something streamlined and something else that is weak. It's an alien symbiote that travelled the cosmos and saw and experienced things some dream of. It has its strengths and weaknesses. It has character. It has motivation. It has drive, lust and control. It's a lot more than a black suit. This Spider-Man thing everyone seems to want is just dumb if you ask me. No need to do it again. Revenge - how an original cliche. Think differently. Venom is complicated. Venom is an alien. How about before or after Spider-Man? How about other characters or events in the universe? How about an alternate universe - which by the way still gives space for a MCU connection later on? It's meant to be scifi horror as they classified it earlier. Spiderman? I'd rather he's ignored completely then briefly mentioned. Either put him entirely if you must, although I think it's a waste, or don't put him at all. The current Spider-Man in the MCU wouldn't stand a chance against Venom as is. He needs to deserve to fight him and he needs to be able to handle him. He's just a kid now who needs Iron Man by his side not to screw up. Venom would rip him apart or would be dealt with in a way that makes him look inferior. So again, leave Spidey out. For now. Putting Spider-Man in Venom in every way is a huge trap and will just break the film. Not make it.
     
  8. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

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    So you're saying that we can't have Venom in the MCU?

    Your comments makes me not even considering to give the Venom film a chance and I think you've ignored the problems that Sony did to the Amazing Spider-Man films. It's more of a stab in the back, really and they have not learned their lesson since they've revived plans after Spider-Man: Homecoming.

    I really don't want the spin-off to have no connection to Spidey. That was a big problem with Catwoman since what originally became a spin-off to the Burton/Schumacher Batman films became an in name only film.

    Sorry but if you can't have a connection to Spider-Man in the film, then frankly the idea of doing this is pointless.

    I'm guessing that you find Spider-Man overrated? And guess what? Venom with no connections to Spider-Man isn't Venom.

    So why don't you just realise that the Venom film not being in the MCU doesn't mean it's an advantage and let's face it, Sony are too desperate and I really want Marvel Studios to gain full rights of the character than just licensing it from Sony.

    I will never forgive Sony for what they did to the Amazing Spider-Man and doing spin-off films with no possible connection to him. I'll continue to be against the spin-off films until Sony realise that they made a stupid mistake and hands the film rights back to Marvel. In fact, they're relying their future on yep, The Emoji Movie.

    Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
     
  9. Checkerboard

    Checkerboard THE HOME OF THE TOP TOON STARS

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    I'm not saying @AdrenalineRush1996 we can't have him in MCU. I'm saying I don't believe Marvel can pull it off and that I think now is not the right time for them to get into it. If they want to do Venom they should stick to animation and do an animated film instead.

    That is sadly your problem if you are close minded about it and look at it that way. The Amazing Spider-Man films were quite decent and I definitely enjoyed the first one more than Spider-Man 2/3.

    I can understand your concern, but doing it is far from pointless and you don't know how it will turn out until it's out. Sure, it can be bad. But why assume? I'm happy we're getting something after all those years of waiting. It's quite sad it took this long to get somewhere and frankly I find this negativity to be just silly - it reminds me of the DC vs Marvel debate or the useless console wars.

    I don't find Spider-Man overrated. I like him. I just find him annoying. Similarly to Superman and Batman. Not the character itself, but the way he is being handled by the studios behind him. Is it so hard to put these iconic characters to rest for a few years so when they come back people can look forward to them instead of just being bored and tired of them because they are being milked and rebooted to death?

    That's not true and you know it. Venom is not just Spider-Man. Again, that is your issue if that is the only thing you associate him with and don't know more or aren't interested in exploring the character further.
     
  10. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

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    Marvel can do Venom right. Sony can't and it shows in Spider-Man 3. I don't really think sticking it to animation would work.

    When I mean by problems, I mean Sony's executive meddling of the Amazing Spider-Man films from turning into a reboot into a MCU-style cinematic universe, not the quality of the films. Andrew Garfield said his experience in the films wasn't a happy one and criticised Sony for their meddling plus comparing it to making Coke cans and prison. The leaked e-mails confirmed that Sony pretty much had a lot of problems in their plans plus they ignored story ideas from Kevin Feige and Alan Fine on how to improve Amazing Spider-Man 2.

    Just silly? Remember when many fans reacted negatively on Ghostbusters: Answer the Call or recently, the upcoming Hellboy reboot? That's not even silly at all plus it made things worse when the crew behind the former called them misogynists.

    You know, I'm actually glad that Spidey is now part of the MCU and so what if characters get rebooted to death? It's Hollywood. That's their stuff.

    No, it is true because the origins of the villain can't be explained away without Spider-Man. It will be complicated to explain how Eddie Brock became Venom without Spidey there. Of course the solo titles have explored the character more, but to have the film being an origin story with no connection to Spidey is a disservice and don't go all very defensive of Sony's control of the film rights because they're not innocent of this at all.

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    #30 AdrenalineRush1996, May 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  11. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

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    Be calm everybody. If Homecoming does well and Venom flops, the Spideyverse will join the MCU soon enough.
     
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  12. Checkerboard

    Checkerboard THE HOME OF THE TOP TOON STARS

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  13. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

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    #34 AdrenalineRush1996, Jun 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  15. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

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    You can't really blame the film makers for Venom in Spider Man 3. That was one of the demands studio executives asked for due to the popualrity of the character kind of last minute in a movie that was already overcrodwed as it is. If this is going to be a more bare bones origin story without like 6 dozen plots going around it could be handled fine.



    Here's the thing though: they really can't make those kind of mistakes anymore due to how Amazing Spider Man turned out and how many people turned on them and how critically panned and poorly recieved that movie wound up being. Pretty sure a lot of the exec team in Sony behind Amazing Spider Man 2 isn't around anymore as it's clear stuff like this isn't based on the success of the MCU but of stuff like Deadpool that shows smaller more focused and gory films work well and is something the MCU isn't doing yet.



    Uh Checkerboard means it's silly to assume all these things about the Venom movie with how little we know about it and trying to assume the worst based on just the idea and a couple of casting notes. And to just be constantly negative and not give anything a chance. I mean if Warner Brothers can get their act together and make a good DCEU movie there's hope for Sony yet on doing something good with Venom.



    Reboots can work if they add something different and have a point to exist other then "because this makes money" or "we want to keep the rights" or "we're doing this to get to that." Spider Man Homecoming still looks like a solid movie with a different kind of story then other Spider Man films thus why I'm fine with it's existance. If it was just the same Tobey Macguire/Andrew Garfield esque start that would be bull but they aren't doing that thankfully thus why not as many people are complaing about it.



    As I've said several times though you aren't going to have the out for vengence against Spider Man angle that was the original Venom's hook it's easy enough to have a Venom movie without Peter Parker. Just have the alien symbiote get bitten by a radioactive spider so when Eddie gets it's powers it also gets a variation of Spider Man's powers. Since even as a hero/anti hero Venom is such a different kind of character then Spider Man you can still do that and have the film turn out totally different.

    Considering there's still talk of a Silver Sable and Black Cat movie being put into at least more major pre production before the Venom movie comes out I don't think it will be the one movie that determines if the "Venom Verse" will flop or not. I mean even for how bad The Mummy did the Dark Universe hasn't been given up on yet. I think honestly at this point Sony's going to have to hit some form of bankruptcy and be forced to give up the rights to Spider Man related characters to stop trying to make movies featuring them.
     
    #35 Neo Ultra Mike, Jun 15, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  16. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

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    Let me clarify. When I said Sony, I mean the studio executives at Sony are to blame for Venom in Spider-Man 3. Then-Marvel Entertainment president Avi Arad was in favour of Venom in the film, while Sam Raimi was not.

    They still can because after Amy Pascal departed, Tom Rothman became the new head of Sony Pictures and he isn't any better since he's responsible for the executive meddling of the first four X-Men films during his time as the head of Fox. It's no wonder that the X-Men series has had more good films after his departure, even if some of them are divisive among the fanbase.

    Sony hasn't even improved under Rothman.

    I'm refusing to give it a chance (though I do approve the casting of Tom Hardy as Eddie Brock) because I cannot forgive Sony for what they've done to the Spider-Man franchise plus Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige has said that R-rated MCU films are not out of the question.

    I know that.

    It does look solid and I'm planning to see it soon.

    Actually, fan reception of the trailers and such has been divisive and several fans are complaining that though Peter is based on his Ultimate counterpart, some of the elements are actually borrowed from his Ultimate successor Miles Morales (like Ned being the MCU counterpart of Ganke), to the point that some call MCU Peter a whitewashed version of Miles.

    But that's too similar to Spider-Man's origins as in a radioactive spider biting Eddie.

    That's why I'm worried that this may end up like Catwoman.

    Not only that, neither Silver Sable or Black Cat have interacted each other in the comics. I am aware that Universal's Dark Universe unfortunately started with a whimper since The Mummy didn't do well with critics and audiences (though it has done more successful outside North America).

    They're being desperate. That's what they're doing. They want to cash in on the success of Deadpool plus they're relying their future on The Emoji Movie and the trailer hasn't even done well with audiences (hence the huge dislikes on YouTube).

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    #36 AdrenalineRush1996, Jun 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  17. Frontier

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  18. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

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  19. SuperFan2024

    SuperFan2024 Shoo fly.

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    Well, if this is true, then I wonder if the second Spidey Tom Holland movie (obviously not being called Homecoming 2) would feature Spider-Man versus Venom. Although I was looking for another villain we haven't seen yet in theaters (perhaps Kraven or Mysterio), Spider-Man versus Venom would fit perfectly in the second Spider-Man movie now that we have gotten both of Spider-Man's and Brock's/Venom's "origins."
     
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  20. Frontier

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    It wouldn't be the first time Pascal's been misinterpreted or not phrased things well, though it's also possible she's just trying to spin things so people think Venom is the MCU even though it isn't :rolleyes:.
     
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