Vandal Savage (Justice League) vs. Vandal Savage (Young Justice)

Discussion in 'The DC Animation Forum' started by Nygma, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. Nygma

    Nygma New Member

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    This is an article from GregX's (the reviewer of Young Justice) blog that I found, that I think is pretty interesting. It's basically an analysis on both takes that we've seen on television up till this point:
    Whilst I don't think as lowly of Justice League's take on Vandal Savage as he seems to, I agree with just about everything else about Vandal Savage. Though I'd also argue that if Uncle Adolf was such a problem for them, I think they should've gone with "the direct approach" instead of just freezing him. Though the problems with the outcomes of The Savage Time I blame more on Season 1 sloppiness than anything that was wrong with the character himself.

    I to prefer Young Justice's take on Vandal Savage. From Miguel Ferrer's voice, his elegant cave man design, the way he carries himself, him being a physical threat when needed, to the writing on him. This version of Vandal Savage is the balls.

    What are everyone else's thoughts on Vandal Savage in Young Justice compared to how he was portrayed in other mediums like Justice League?
     
  2. reflection

    reflection Active Member

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    And
    "Hereafter" would have been far more poignant if Superman and Savage had ever met each other on screen before this.

    Agreed. Villian-centric JL eps like Twilight and The Terror Beyond built on the villain's prior interactions with the lead heroes. Hereafter didn't have that advantage. It also would have helped if Vandal Savage had been in on the plot that transmitted Superman in the first place.

    It would have been better if Savage was a known immortal from the beginning in JL as well.
     
  3. Bobbywoodhogan

    Bobbywoodhogan I Will Find Him!

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    I think the Young Justice version is better but I like the DCAU version, Phil Morris is fantastic as Vandal Savage and I would say I prefer his voice but prefer YJ design wise. The JL: Doom version is probably my favourite as its similar in design to YJ but has the fantastic Phil Morris as Savage.
     
  4. BigFatHairyDeal

    BigFatHairyDeal Defender of the Universe

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    While I can agree that "Hereafter" would've been better if Savage and Superman met on screen prior, I think that version is perhaps the most refreshing take on the sinister megalomaniac. A lot of baddies want to take over the world, but very few have actually done so and lived long enough to regret it. He was the right blend of eccentricity, remorse, and enlightenment. Maybe that makes him less interesting of a villain, but to me that makes him a more interesting character.
     
  5. Bobbywoodhogan

    Bobbywoodhogan I Will Find Him!

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    Totally agree, part 2 of Hereafter's awesome and part of that is how quirky Vandal Savage is, I love that he's suceeded in conquering the world and has seen what a mistake he's made it really is refreshing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2012
  6. spartanx54

    spartanx54 New Member

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    Hmm, tough choice. YJ Savage is definitely more sinister and well....just overall awesome. I really like his costume in YJ also and Miguel Ferrer gives a stellar performance. As a fan of "Hereafter" I also really like DCAU Savage, his portrayal in "Hereafter was great. Savage showed a lot of hospitality and showed the good side of him.

    I really like both, but I gotta give it to YJ.
     
  7. quigonkenny

    quigonkenny New Member

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    I certainly don't agree with the take on "The Savage Time", but one of my personal pet peeves is someone knocking "time travel story X" because "that's not how time travel works". Until Doc Brown invents the flux capacitor, and science figures out how to get a DeLorean up to 88 MPH using banana peels and half-empty beer bottles, time travel is a simply a writing ploy. It works however that particular author wants it to work, and doesn't have to work the same as it did in "time travel story Y". Sure, "The Savage Time" certainly had its share of plot holes (and then some), but it was a heck of a lot of fun.

    As for Savage himself, I certainly expect to enjoy the YJ version more than the DCAU version for the same reason I have enjoyed most every YJ character more than their DCAU counterparts: better writing. Not to knock Timm, Dini, and all their DCAU cohorts, but I've always been a sucker for the kind of consistent, coherent storyline that Weisman puts into all his series (at least as long as he has control). It's much more a "one vision" than even BTAS was, and that always helps to make even the little things better (like a villainous mastermind who's had, what, 7-8 lines so far, and not a one of them wasted).

    I do love the DCAU design for Savage, though. While his rugged caveman good looks aren't as overt as those on the YJ version (arguably the only thing about DCAU!Savage that is more subtle), they're still there. And he certainly better carries off the irony of a smarmy yet aristocratically arrogant caveman...
     
  8. The Dark Lord

    The Dark Lord New Member

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    I'll admit, I was never a fan of Vandal Savage in JL, except for maybe his "redemption" in "Hereafter". JL: Doom was what made me really like Vandal Savage as a villain, leading the Legion of Doom and all. YJ has certainly helped things, leading "The Light" and having the entire 20+ members of the League bowing down to him. Bad. Ass.
     
  9. the greenman

    the greenman Active Member

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    I think YJ's Savage is specifically meant to be their arch nemesis. He has existed for their progenitors, the JSA, and will likely be around for their ancestors, the LOSH. For a show about generations, he is their Darkseid. I actually kinda hope that Savage's ultimatum is to not only takeover the earth, but as it seems to use all of earth's forces to defend against Apokalips invasion.
     
  10. AlgeaX

    AlgeaX Oh, hello?

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    I think this topic deserves a bump now that Auld Acquaintances has aired.

    One thing that really dig about YJ Savage is that he's not acting solely out of simple megalomania, the man has an ideology and a cause which arguably makes him more dangerous then if he was acting out of simple self-interest.
     
  11. ShadowStar

    ShadowStar Member

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    I prefer YJ Savage at this point in time. I didn't care for "The Savage Time", and both "Maid of Honor" and "Hereafter" were overshadowed by various other season 2 episodes. That said, he certainly had his moments, like when he burst out of the ground at the end of "Maid of Honor" (now that was a shocking moment), and his redemption in "Hereafter".
     
  12. The Dark Lord

    The Dark Lord New Member

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    Whilst I do prefer YJ Savage over JL Savage, I think the Savage in JL: Doom is the best.
     
  13. Bobbywoodhogan

    Bobbywoodhogan I Will Find Him!

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    Totally agree, best design, best voice and best characterisation for me.
     
  14. The Dark Lord

    The Dark Lord New Member

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    Phil Morris FTW, though Miguel Ferrer is a worthy successor. Though in terms of design, I'd place YJ Savage over JLD Savage.
     
  15. Nygma

    Nygma New Member

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    I agree, and it took all of Vandal Savage's positive qualities on this show, and heightened them with a very unique and human motivation. One of THE best villains in DC Animation. And I look forward to where he and The LIght go next.

    I disagree, for the same reasons GregX does:

     
  16. BigFatHairyDeal

    BigFatHairyDeal Defender of the Universe

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    Even if Doom's Savage had a really quirky plan, it was the opposite of "short-sighted." Here's a guy who hasn't been happy since modern day man became the dominant species on the planet. He's obviously had a lot of time to think about how to regain that feeling, and he knew the only way he'd get it back was to do something drastic. Most importantly, his plan would've worked if not for the incompetence of his hired goons who weren't willing to confirm that they finished the job.

    When 50,000 years old you reach, look as kept together you will not! :p
     
  17. Afalstein

    Afalstein New Member

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    I'm going to provide another side to this, I think I actually like the DCAU Savage better. Partly, perhaps, because I'm a sucker for time travel AU's and I thought the "Savage Time" Batman was awesome, but also because I feel the DCAU Savage felt more timeless.

    Let me clarify. YJ Savage is more clearly ancient. The mutton chops, the scars, the sheer beast-like quality of the man--he looks very much like a prehistoric man, as you all have commented. But in a way, I also feel that's the problem. He looks like a man who time has passed by. Obviously he's not, as his ability to outmaneuver the League shows, but he doesn't look immortal as much as really old. The review of "Auld Acquaintance" even points this out by saying that Savage's insistence on "survival of the fittest" is hypocritical, given his immortality. YJ Savage is awesome in a lot of ways, but he comes across as something of a caveman, who hasn't even been able to heal facial scars.

    DCAU Savage, on the other hand, is polished, urbane, and thoroughly modern, even ahead of his times. He commands armies and nations, coming across as much more of a warlord than YJ Savage, who despite his role as head of "the Light" doesn't actually seem to have an army of his own. DCAU Savage was harder to see as an ancient caveman, but it was easier to see him as a man untouched by time.

    And yes, YJ Savage is apparently more clever than DCAU Savage (although to be fair, DCAU Savage DID succeed in destroying the world once), but that's more or less par for the villains on this show. Weisman's villains get an upgrade, even freaking B-Lister Sportsmaster. The only one who's actually gone DOWN in threat level is Luthor. And while that's great writing and one of the reasons I love YJ, it's not really a reason for me to like YJ Savage over DCAU Savage.
     
  18. Gold Starz

    Gold Starz "Evil Resides In Crystal Cove"

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    Time Travel stories are only good if they're done right, as pointed out, Savage Time was not. Although, I did like the ending with WW.

    "With age comes experience," as they say. Also, immortality does not equal eternal youth, but I still don't see how he looks old. As for the hypocrisy, I honestly can't tell if that a compliment or a complaint, the Light is blinded (pardon the pun) by their own arrogance to see the flaws of their plan. At first, I thought they were looking on the bright side (again, no pun intended), but now that the season is over, I can see that the Light was actually being too high-and-mighty to admit they're plans were being delayed by children.

    Why would an immortal man, who knows all the tricks humanity has, need an army of thugs, when he can have an army of deadly super-villains who are highly trained.

    Any villain who is not an alien or terminal/dying who wants to destroy the world is a failure from the moment the words come out of their mouths. Not only would they die (Vandal would live, but he wanted to take over a world with people on it, not a barren, deserted one), but with that, they also have people of BOTH sides working against said person because the villains still want to live. Also, I don't believe this is much of an upgrade for Vandal, as much as JL was a downgrade for him.

    On the topic of Lex, I don't see how knowing when or when not to play your ace is a way to lower your threat level. Just because he hasn't used his suit, he's a lower threat? Not only does he have Mercy, his cyborg bodyguard to protect him, the only time he's appeared are when he thinks he'll be safe. Just by bringing Mercy, he's probably thinking of himself as over-prepared.
     
  19. AlgeaX

    AlgeaX Oh, hello?

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    I always felt Vandal's plan in JLD felt like rather generic, almost like an afterthought. I wouldn't be surprised if the original story pitch read something like "After escaping their enemies' clutches, the League mount a daring assault on the Hall of Doom to prevent Vandal Savage from [insert evil plot here] before it's too late!"

    It's never a good sign when you can substitute any generic megalomaniac for your main villain without significantly altering the story,
     
  20. Afalstein

    Afalstein New Member

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    A complaint. DCAU Savage was one who evolved with the times, this Savage doesn't look to have evolved at all. Top post says his slow voice makes him sound patient, I think it makes him sound like a slow thinker. DCAU Savage was an articulate man. And YJ Savage's speech would have been a lot more interesting and justifiable if he hadn't been so obviously a flaw in his own plan.

    Because the army of thugs conveys his ability not just to convince a few elite people, but also truly administer a massive organization. YJ Savage isn't a warlord so much as a team leader.

    Not having seen much of Savage in the comics, can't comment on that. But I was speaking of the JL Savage, who accidentally destroyed the Earth with his gravity weapon My point was that in the JL, Savage DID destroy the League and conquer the world.. it just led to its destruction and had to be reversed by a time-traveling Superman.

    He's adequate to the occasion. And he's slick and sly. On the other hand, he's also not a) commanding an army of supervillains, b) keeping a nano-tech world-destroying robot in his gut, c) approaching near god-hood. YJ Luthor is still fun in his own way, I'm just saying he's not the powerhouse he was in JLU.
     

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