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Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "The Symbiote Saga, Parts 1-3" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by RoyalRubble, Jul 3, 2016.

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Rate & Discuss this Ultimate Spider-Man episode!

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  1. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Catch a new episode of Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six, today at 9:00AM ET on Disney XD! The Symbiote Saga begins!

    [​IMG]
    Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "Symbiote Saga, Part 1"
    Episode Debut - July 3rd, 2016
    Directed by: Roy Burdine
    Written by: Joshua Fine

    Spider-Man and Agent Venom uncover Hydra and Morbius' plan to create a new, improved Venom Bomb.

    Comments?

    Mod Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!
     
    #1 RoyalRubble, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  2. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    "Hmmm...Zola and both Zemos are dead, and Red Skull, Madame Viper and Strucker are still in prison. Quick! Someone find Crossbones and put him in charge!"

    I'm guessing Gorgon was out of the question.
     
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  3. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Wow, they're actually using Mary Jane again! She hasn't been genuinely relevant on the show since that late season 2 Lizard episode, and this is the first we've really seen her in a really long time. So it was great seeing her again, watching over Harry, talking with Peter, and it was also good to check in on how Harry's doing. Probably one of the biggest disappointments of USM as a whole is how badly they've used MJ (which is to say, barely at all), so having her back and hopefully playing a role going forward in this arc would be great :).

    And we finally get details and explanation for how Peter's shift from Midtown to SHIELD Academy happened. He didn't graduate, but he's gone to a "special science immersion school." Which explains why his friends aren't concerned about why he's not going to school anymore, and means that Peter's been running SHIELD Academy without even a high school diploma to his name. At least they bothered to finally address that issue, which we've been talking about since season 3, instead of just continually leaving it hanging over the story :shrug:.

    It was nice to see Flash back in action as Agent Venom, even if he had a lot of issues getting the Symbiote to work in this episode. I wonder, was it self-confidence issues coming back to the Superhero game when he wasn't ready? His injuries not being completely healed? At least the Symbiote losing a part of itself and that part becoming part of Carnage explains its reluctance to work, though in the end Flash was able to overcome that handicap and help Spidey beat him :cool:.

    Oh hey, there's Jameson! And there's the pre-requisite smashing of anything with his face on it :p.

    Spidey not getting sports was also a nice little bit ;).

    Wow, Morbius did a 180 in characterization since the last time he was on the show, though at least it was acknowledged via Spidey. Though it's a pretty stark change going from a meek, fearful, scientists respecting Doc Ock to someone who's willing to take a Hydra armor out into the field and fight Spidey and Agent Venom, is a cruel and brilliant mad scientist, and is openly disrespectful and rude to Octavius with little to no explanation. I mean, maybe this is his true personality, but it feels like they could've done a much better job setting it up so it doesn't feel so out of nowhere o_O?

    Also, did anyone else think that his Hydra armor resembled the War Machine armor? Especially with the shoulder rockets? Rhodey just can't catch a break anywhere :(.

    I was happy to see them finally turn him into Morbius the Living Vampire, and even have Flash call him that, though he looked a lot more like Man-Bat from Batman then his traditional comic look :rolleyes2:.

    So Crossbones (who's confirmed alive) is now in charge of Hydra, with Zola out of commission? That seems like a bit of a stretch, though they've been so vague about the general Hydra chain of command that there probably wasn't that much thought put into it. It was at least nice seeing Hydra dealing with Ock's betrayal, and I have to imagine they're trying to fish Zola out of whatever remains of Hydra Island, so Crossbones is probably just the temporary commander :ack:.

    Carnage, or at least a more true-to-form Carnage, made a pretty strong debut here. From giving Doc Ock a deadly makeover to eventually taking its own form, it established itself well as a dangerous new Symbiote, and it only got worse for our heroes from there. It's fight with Spider-Man, where it was thrashing Spidey left and right and continually unsettling him, was pretty a pretty tense, well-choreographed, and engaging fight. The show made good use of Carnage's Symbiote abilities. And even without Cletus Kasady as a host, Carnage is still just as feral, chaotic, and crazy as he generally is, with Dee Bradley Baker delivering a stellar performance conveying all those elements, and it managed to get the heroes to carry out his goal by the end of the episode :eek:.

    Y'know, it's a pretty big coincidence that Morbius just happened to create a new Symbiote with a similar color scheme and design to the one that the Green Goblin concocted and turned Spider-Man into in season 2, and yet nobody comments on it. The design of the infected New Yorkers at the end was even the exact same Carnage design as when Peter became Carnage :confused:.

    I wonder if the way Carnage was created, as the Ultimate Symbiote weapon, is what gave it its consciousness and lack of need for a host or if absorbing Ock's nanobots helped create it :ack:?

    I also wonder if this it for Ock. Hydra is done with him, he's lost his nanobot upgrade (debatable an upgrade as it is), and who knows if there's been any lasting effects to Carnage bonding with him. He still knows Peter's identity, though, which he's keeping to himself and we still don't have any ideas about what his plans for Anti-Venom/Harry could be :evil:.

    What makes you think Madame Hydra and Strucker are in prison? EMH (which isn't in continuity)? Strucker's probably dead given his movie status and Viper might be a casualty of the movie rights issue :sweat:.
     
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  4. Troy Troodon

    Troy Troodon Well-Known Member

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    Finally, they bring up Petey's relation with MJ, and they same to be building up a "more than friends" relationship. (The relation with Aunt May was starting to get uncomfortable for my taste if you catch my drift) Also makes me wonder if Joe Quesada is no longer involved since he's against superheroes having loved ones and all that jazz.

    And oh, man Carnage was a a lot of fun!
     
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    #4 Troy Troodon, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  5. JoeMabbon

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    "Is this a bad time? We can come back..." That was a really funny line. I'm usually really down on the writing on this show, but that was great.

    Carnage was suitably unhinged. He had a pretty strong showing.
     
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  6. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    The way I see it, regardless if it's in-continuity or not, is that the events from EMH happened but maybe not in the same exact way. As of now, the show acts as more of a predecessor to a potential animated universe that's left open for changes as a result of creative freedom later on. The events happened, they're just not elaborated upon. That still doesn't mean it's the same universe. It's a "transition", as Marvel put it when they announced Avengers Assemble.

    It's already contradicted itself numerous times in-universe, so it's all up in the air.

    That I really didn't like. At times I will defend this version of Peter Parker, but that drastic of a shift, all in favor of his superhero life, is a complete cop out IMO.
     
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    #6 TheLemsterPju, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  7. JoeMabbon

    JoeMabbon Marble

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    I think Crossbones is leader because he has a toy on shelves.
     
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  8. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    I know that, but this version seems more like a brute than a true leader to me. :p
     
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  9. Frontier

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    I know there's a vague history of The Avengers that hasn't been elaborated on that eventually lead to their separation prior to season one of Assemble, and that one Molecule Man flashback featuring them in their EMH designs, but with so many inconsistencies and differences I just can't, in any way, view EMH or what happened in it as part of the same continuity, even in a transitionary way.

    In fact, I'd prefer not to :sweat:.

    I don't know, it seems in-character for this Peter. He has, like, two friends at Midtown High and he generally ignores them and chances at a regular social life to hang out with SHIELD and focus on being the Ultimate Spider-Man. That he'd take the opportunity to completely move to the SHIELD Academy to continue his training fits well with that.

    This Peter Parker, and the series in general, has always been a lot more focused on being Spider-Man then Peter Parker. I don't like it, but it fits the show's modus operandi and how they've portrayed him so far :shrug:.

    Now that I think about it, they did time his appearance in USM fairly well given he was just in Civil War :eek:.
     
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  10. superspidey2257

    superspidey2257 Your Friendly Neighbourhood Forum User

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    this was basically ultimate spiderman's take on gremlins
    carnage felt like a mix of spike and the tazzy devil of looney tunes.
    plus the mutation of everyone when carnage touched them was like when water touches gremlins in general.
    loved how they handled the origin of morbius even though im not that fond of the design
    doc ock/carnage was pretty cool but doesnt beat kraven/venom
    i imagine morbius has gone awol now
    anyway 7/10 for this episode
    I hope this episode saga gives us a chance to see the SMASH crew again

    Or they might have made him top priority due to civil war's success at the box office.
     
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    #10 superspidey2257, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2016
  11. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    Now that I think about it, Fury could have forced the whole SHIELD Academy on Peter, who would teen see improving himself against bigger threats more important than advanced calculus.

    Wait, were the Academy teens learning anything school related in previous episodes? I recall classroom scenes with holo-monitors, but I don't know if that was general education or just superhero-related stuff.
     
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  12. Frontier

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    Well...I don't see Fury forcing Peter to go, but I could see him recommending it as the next step in his becoming the Ultimate Spider-Man (or something like that). It also allowed him to continue training with his team and the New Warriors, which also probably helped :).

    I presume most of it was Superhero related, but hopefully the class subjects at SHIELD Academy are a little more versatile and extensive then that :ack:.

    I mean, obviously it's important to prepare these kids for being the best Superheroes they can be, but you'd also need to prepare them for the real world and make sure they're proficient in basic academic subjects that would be useful in both the field and in whatever day job they might chose alongside their Superhero career :sweat:.
     
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  13. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    That was actually pretty exciting. The animation really stepped up during the Carnage vs Spider-Man fight, and Carnage himself was well done.

    Morbius looks too much like Man-Bat, though. :p
     
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  14. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Pretty great episode. It was so cool seeing Mary Jane on the show again. She's been absent for so long that even this short scene with her was a nice treat. I liked how they alluded to her friendship with both Peter and Harry, I just wish this was used in more episodes prior to this. I thought this was a good way to address some of the stuff that has happened on the show recently - Harry's condition after the events of "Anti-Venom", Peter joining SHIELD Academy and later on even the Hydra leadership (who would have expected Crossbones to be the new leader?). Pretty cool stuff.

    Flash recuperating and becoming Agent Venom again was nice and expected since this was the start of the Symbiote Saga after all. His ordeal in this episode about being too scared to fight back was handled well enough and reached a pretty satisfying conclusion by the end. Hopefully he'll get some more chances to show off his powers in the following parts.

    Morbius returning, now as a more confident mad scientist was cool. I expected there was more to him than the timid Doc Ock fan-boy he was presented as in his last appearance and this didn't really disappoint. Him wanting to create a new symbiote for Hydra was a pretty surprising turn of events which did help the story move along nicely. Plus his new relationship with Ock, pretty much the complete opposite of how things were before. I did like the way it all ended though - with Ock returned to his former look after being infected by Carnage, and Morbius turning into the Living Vampire bat-creature, which I thought had a pretty good design.

    Carnage was pretty awesome. There's not that much one could do to his design but the way he used his powers and the ensuing action scenes were cool. Spidey and Agent Venom going up against him was very entertaining and helped prove just how powerful this new symbiote really is. The fact that it doesn't need a host body to do all this stuff was a cool and unexpected twist. The ending was pretty good as well, suitably creepy and I am looking forward to the next parts of this saga.
     
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  15. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    I like the way they are advancing the story this season. It wasn't much but the throwaway line with Mary Jane at least gave us an idea on how old Peter is right now and his cover story for leaving high school. Also it was good to finally see Mary Jane again.

    So basically Peter is still high school age, and he left mid-town high under the guise of going to fancy science school. I assume that was the story fed to Aunt May when he left Mid-town High for SHIELD Academy and Peter didn't yet know that she knew he was Spider-Man.

    It was just starting to get confusing because I couldn't keep track of Peter possibly being a high school graduate yet and what's going on with his schooling exactly.

    I liked the return of Morbius, and I also especially liked that he didn't waste time by trying to banter with Venom and Spider-Man for their fight. He got what he needed and left. Simple and effective. More bad guys can take cues from this.

    I liked Crossbones getting an expanded character this season. I wasn't expecting to see him again after the Madame Web episode. Now it seems he's the ranking member of HYDRA since Zola is away on a bus and Doc Ock is in timeout.

    Now here is what I don't get at all. The sonic device removed all the nano-machines off of Doctor Octopus, and he looked like his old design. His hair was back. So...why use nano-machines to change your face and make you look bald and wrinkled? I get that they were going for the Doc Ock design when he was sick and nearly dying, it just seems like a weird storyline choice to use HYDRA nano-machines to purposefully make you look like that if that's not how you really look.
     
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    #15 TheVileOne, Jul 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  16. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I think we were meant to assume the nanobots gave him some kind of power upgrade, so that there was an upside to making himself look worse then he generally does even with his condition, but it was fairly inconsistent :shrug:.

    That said, in their last fight, Ock was holding his own far better then he had in a while...
     
  17. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    No I totally get that the nano-machines give him a power upgrade. But why that AND make him look like he's 85 years old when that's not what he really even looks like?

    IMHO it just seems like an arbitrary way to change Doctor Octopus' design. Just say he had an accident and him looking that way is the result instead of nano-machines forced him to look that way and then when they are de-activated, he changes back.
     
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  18. Frontier

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    Well, I guess you could say it made him look far more menacing, even if it made his condition look even worse. But he probably didn't care that much by then :sweat:.
     
  19. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Catch a new episode of Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six, today at 9:00AM ET on Disney XD! The Symbiote Saga continues!

    [​IMG]
    Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "Symbiote Saga, Part 2"
    Episode Debut - July 10th, 2016
    Directed by: Young Ki Yoon
    Written by: Jacob Semahn

    Spider-Man, Captain America and S.H.I.E.L.D. Academy must band together to save New York.

    Comments?

    Mod Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!
     
  20. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
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    This show has been on a very good roll lately. The action during these last two episodes has really seemed to step it up in my opinion.

    Looking at the heroes on hand, we're these guys all involved in Maximum Carnage? I never read the complete comic arc but I could have sworn all of the heroes you could call on for backup in the video game, minus Firestar and Black Cat, are here.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk.
     
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