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Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "The Moon Knight Before Christmas" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by RoyalRubble, Dec 17, 2016.

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Rate & Discuss this Ultimate Spider-Man episode!

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  1. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Catch a new episode of Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six, tonight at 8:00PM ET on Disney XD! Tune in for a Christmas Special, and Moon Knight's animated debut!

    [​IMG]
    Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "The Moon Knight Before Christmas"
    Episode Debut - December 17th, 2016
    Directed by: Jae Woo Kim
    Written by: Elliott Casey

    While house-sitting on Christmas Eve, Spider-Man is forced to team up with Moon Knight to defend the home from the new Mysterio.

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    Mod Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!
     
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    #1 RoyalRubble, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  2. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Was there some kind of executive decision that USM would handle all the promotion for the Dr. Strange movie? Because that would explain why Strange has shown up so much this season compared to the sole appearance he had in Ultron Revolution. Not that it's not nice to see the good doctor on a Spider-man cartoon :).

    So Aunt May works at the FEAST shelter? That would've been interesting to see explored, and would've given something for Aunt May to do. Well, if this show ever cared to focus on non-Superheroics that is...

    I guess either Wong doesn't exist in this universe or MAU Wong is at the Hong Kong Sanctum like in the movies, because otherwise I just have to keep wondering why Stephen seems to be the only one living at the Sanctum Sanctorum :confused:.

    I wonder if this is the last time we'll see Strange's pre-Where Monsters Dwell design? Might even be the last time Dr. Strange looks this good what with Film Roman leaving :sweat:.

    Moon Knight finally makes his debut in animation, after being teased as early as the season 2 finale of Avengers Assemble, which is pretty cool :cool:.

    His portrayal was certainly...interesting, which I guess is accurate considering we're dealing with Moon Knight. They made it readily apparent just how crazy he can appear to be with his worshiping of the moon, even though they never outright name-dropped Khonshu for some reason, and how that can make him seem very dangerous. They also didn't go into his identity at all, other then him mentioning the word "spector" at some point, but that's not really a surprise. Having Diedrich Bader voice him felt like a nice nod to Moon Knight's Batman stand-in status, and he did a good job portraying the character's devotion to the moon and overall eeriness ;).

    The idea of a female Mysterio, let alone one that's Quentin Beck's daughter, is an interesting one, even though between making Francine sympathetic and resolving her story by the end they pretty much put the kibosh on any chance of her playing a genuine villain. We also didn't get to see her really play up the persona of Mysterio that much.

    Doesn't it kind of miss the point of Mysterio by making the illusions real through actual magic? Though I guess if Francine is meant to be a gender-flipped stand-in for Francis Klum, who had actualy powers, it makes at least a little sense to give Mysterio actual powers. I guess this is what Spectacular Mysterio's illusions would've looked like had they been real o_O.

    Man, I was all excited for Paul Scheer's Mysterio, but not only do we only really see him as Quentin Beck, but he's not in the episode for very long. And he's, like a lot of USM Rogues at this point, re-imagined as a guy who's not really that bad and redeems himself by the end, which is as far as you can get from the traditional Beck or Mysterio. I guess it was fine for a Holiday episode and for a sweet family Christmas message, but I was kind of hoping for a more memorable and villainous Mysterio from this episode :sad:.

    And of course Dormammu shows up because we can't have an episode with Dr. Strange without Dormammu appearing in some form. Though it could be worse. He could look like MCU Dormammu :rolleyes2:.

    Doesn't Beck still have crimes to answer for from his time as Mysterio? Not to mention Francine terrorized the city for a little while. Then again, if Norman Osborn can avoid any legal trouble for everything he did in season 1, I guess the Mysterio family can as well :shrug:.

    Y'know one thing I definitely won't miss about Ultimate Spider-Man? Spidey breaking the fourth-wall. Though at least it gave us the great gag of Moon Knight, of all people, calling out how crazy it makes him look :p.
     
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  3. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    I'm pretty happy Deidrich Bader ended up playing Moon Knight. I remember seeing him backstage at Comic-Con for a media scrum, and his kids were there. His son was dressed up as Moon Knight, and his daughter was like a female version of Moon Knight they made up together. Both his kids apparently loved Marvel characters and love Moon Knight, and I wonder if this had anything to do with it or if it was purely coincidental.

    I liked how it ended, but I couldn't make out what the heck Moon Knight was saying. I liked that Moon Knight called Spider-Man a weirdo for having one of his fourth wall monologue session.

    I'm a bit disappointed we didn't get an actual Mysterio episode to set this one up. It would've been a good way to tie in everything together.

    Overall, I'm glad we finally got Moon Knight in animation. I'm only a bit disappointed we didn't learn about Marc Spector and his secret identity. Moon Knight also buying that Spider-Man was talking to the moon as well was silly but oh well. Also the image of him having Christmas dinner with Spider-Man and Aunt May. Apparently had a bowl of food in front of him and laughing at things and saying something was amusing. How is he eating his food though. He could've at least lifted part of his mask up.
     
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  4. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    I'm a sucker for Christmas episodes/specials, so I liked this one, but wow, Moon Knight was certainly a lot different than I was expecting. At least he called Spider-Man out on his monologues.

    But I will never not love giant gingerbread men.
     
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  5. JoeMabbon

    JoeMabbon Dwarf-in-a-flask

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    Moon Knight was fun. That's one benefit of having this whole set of shows run so long, we can get guest stars that would normally be too obscure or bizarre for mainstream, kid audiences. He was a little smoothed over and simplified, but the general concept of the character came through and Deidrich Bader's parody of the cowled crusader archetype worked well.

    Yeah, super hero cartoons these days just aren't interested in non-powered side characters. Maybe Justice League Action might turn that around. They took a chance on giving Jimmy Olsen a role in the premiere. Certainly a better portrayal than he's had in other recent DC adaptations.

    I don't know if I'd blame that trend on the new sincerity or the fact that the show isn't that interested in Spider-Man's rogue's gallery or mythos. Though, the "he/she was not themselves" is becoming the most grating cliche in modern animation.

    Did the crew of the new show confirm this?
     
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  6. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Honestly, I think this show would've ultimately worked better if team-up guest stars and spotlighting obscure Marvel characters was it's modus operandi rather then "Spider-Man team show" :shrug:.

    If JLA were a Marvel cartoon, Jimmy would either never appear or be forced into a Superhero identity the very episode he appeared :p.

    Their go-to way of changing up some of the major Spidey villains seems to be either de-aging them or taking away their teeth as villains. Then again, I guess Doc Ock is pure evil enough for the entire Rogues Gallery :rolleyes2:.
    Not outright, but one can only hope :sweat:.
     
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  7. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
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    This made me just think about DC does the team thing with their live-action shows.

    I get pretty annoyed with them trying to make all the villains sympathetic too. It was one of the things I disliked about Raimi's trilogy. I didn't mind the Mysterio situation here though. It did feel as though we should have seen him before though. The flashback story felt more interesting than some episodes. The Mysterio designs were great, too. Nothing ever beats the classic designs for me.

    I loved the last Spider-Man Christmas episode and this one was right up there for me. You can do heart warming and make it a peril filled superhero story at the same time. I thought definitely worked a lot better than Jingle Bell Rock.


    Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
     
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  8. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    It was hardly the go-to for all of them. Case in point, Kraven, Hydroman, Shocker, Green Goblin, Electro, Carnage (sans taking away Cletus Cassidy).

    Also, conceptually, what is wrong with making villains sympathetic characters? Good villains don't believe they are villains.
     
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  9. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Well, I never said they did so for all of them, just that it seemed to be their main methodology when they wanted to really change up a specific villain and has been applied quite a few times over the course of the series.

    There's nothing wrong conceptually with making a villain sympathetic, though I think in doing so to as many Spider-Man villains as they have and in the way it's come about on the show, they've both drastically changed their characters and taken some of the real menace out of a lot of them.
     
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  10. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Things I liked:

    - Moon Knight. I don't know a whole lot about him (honestly, the character never really appealed to me), but I liked how he was portrayed here. Cool design and good voice acting from Diedrich Bader. Plus, some pretty awesome action scenes. The running gag with him talking to the Moon was neat (I'm guessing there's more to that in the comics).

    - The new Mysterio. Interesting take on a classic Spidey villain we sadly didn't get to see on the show before. I would have liked at least one previous episode to set up this story properly. It seemed kind of rushed but I did like the idea of Mysterio having a daughter, wanting revenge on Spidey. I wasn't expecting it all to have a happy ending, either.

    - The overall Christmas atmosphere and the family theme going on throughout the episode. Even the humor worked for the most part. Spidey tricking Moon Knight into thinking he can also talk to the Moon was a little silly but it worked and then we got that hilarious bit with Moon Knight calling out Spidey for addressing the audience. Someone had to do it, eventually. :p

    There really isn't much I didn't like about the episode, other than the Mysterio stuff I mentioned, and the fact they squeezed in Doctor Strange into this story as well (though I admit, Spidey remembering his advice to wear a hat because it's cold made me laugh). But overall, a pretty good Christmas special.
     
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  11. PapaGreg

    PapaGreg Peppermint tea for me

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    Alright episode, I loved the Moon Knights bits but the rest was kinda meh.
    Here is a good video on what Moon knight is about

     
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    #11 PapaGreg, Dec 20, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  12. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    How did Quentin Beck get so buff? He clearly wasn't that broad when he was Mysterio.

    Also, am I the only one noticing a race change with him and his daughter? It's interesting since I can't recall that happening often in this continuity.
     
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    #12 TheLemsterPju, Dec 20, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  13. Troy Troodon

    Troy Troodon Well-Known Member

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    Now that you mention it, they do seem to have a... slight asian look, but maybe that's just how they're drawn, and if I'm not mistaken a lot of Phil Bourassa's designs seem to have this semi anime influence as well, so that might explain it.
     
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  14. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Beck seemed Caucasian to me, but Francine might be half-Asian on her mother's side (whoever that is).

    I doubt they put much thought into it, honestly :sweat:.
     
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  15. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    Getting Batman to play Moon Knight, one of Marvel's numerous Batman ripoffs, was an inspired casting choice.

    [QUOTE="TheLemsterPju, post: 84936241, member: 183071] It's interesting since I can't recall that happening often in this continuity.[/QUOTE]

    Off the top of my head there's Scorpion and Arcade, both made Asian for the show.
     
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  16. Medinnus

    Medinnus Moderator
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    Hearing the Batman voice inside of Moon Knight was disconcerting... fun, but disconcerting.

    A weak storyline, but all said, not too bad. No real plot, but the treatment of Moon Knight was an original (well, for me - not the most active comics guy anymore) was amusing. Shame we won't get more of Moon Knight; I like the costume re-design and the Moon shtick.
     
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  17. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Of note, this wouldn't be the first time Marvel Animation has brought in a former Batman to voice a Batman stand-in, with Anthony Ruivivar (Beware the Batman) voicing Nighthawk on Assemble and Adam West in the same role for Super Hero Squad ;).
     
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  18. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
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    Now I'm just waiting for the day they can do a 5 star Avengers vs Squadron animated movie and recruit Conroy or Greenwood for the part. That would all be way too good to be true.
     
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