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Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "Graduation Day, Parts 1-2" Series Finale Talkback (Spoiler)

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by RoyalRubble, Jan 7, 2017.

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Rate & Discuss the series finale for "Ultimate Spider-Man"!

  1. *****

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  2. ****1/2

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  4. ***1/2

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  5. ***

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  6. **1/2

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  8. *1/2

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  9. *

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  10. 1/2

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  1. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Catch the last two episodes of Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six, tonight starting at 7:30PM ET on Disney XD! Tune in for the finale of Marvel's longest running animated series!

    [​IMG]
    Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "Graduation Day, Part 1"
    Episode Debut - January 7th, 2017
    Directed by: Young Ki Yoon
    Written by: Kevin Burke & Chris "Doc" Wyatt

    When Doctor Octopus, who knows Spider-Man’s secret identity, threatens to kill Aunt May if Spidey ever puts his mask on again, our hero does what a true hero would do – he tracks down Ock and all of his associates before Ock has a chance to put his plan into effect.

    Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "Graduation Day, Part 2"
    Episode Debut - January 7th, 2017
    Directed by: Jae Woo Kim
    Written by: Kevin Burke & Chris "Doc" Wyatt

    Now without his powers, Peter Parker must find a way to stop Doctor Octopus and the Superior Sinister Six from destroying all of the heroes in New York and taking over the world in the balance.

    Comments?

    Mod Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC! Let's have fun and enjoy this final Ultimate Spider-Man event!
     
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  2. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    There was a turtle in one of those small glass containers. I would wonder how it survived all those years when no one knew about the room, but the poor thing probably died anyway when Oscorp crumbled. :(
     
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  3. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I don't think Ultimate Spider-Man could have asked for a stronger conclusion to it's four-year run. The finale was a fairly satisfying conclusion to the series, wrapping up the its overall themes and storylines quite well, and bringing together pretty much the entire cast to finish things up. It was also a fun, on-point, and enjoyable two-parter overall, with plenty of action (if not always memorable) to keep the momentum going. For ally my issues with this series and it's less then stellar quality for a good portion of it's run, I was happy to see the series end on a good note for it's historic status :D.

    Y'know one thing I'm not going to miss about USM? Peter Parker breaking the fourth wall :mad:.

    Peter and the gang getting so worked up about their SHIELD Academy graduation kept me questioning whatever happened to these kids attending an actual high school? Is Peter ever going to graduate from Midtown High? Is Tony Stark seriously offering a teenager without a high school diploma the job of running his tech business? I mean, I know it's Cho and he's smart enough to do it, but still :confused:.

    I have to say, Ock showing up at Peter's house and calmly eating his wheat-cakes is classic Doc Ock. As is subtly flirting with Aunt May :eek:.

    It was nice to see Spidey with his original team again. I mean, I'd be lying if I said I had fond memories of this group together, but it was good to have the team that started it all come back together one more time for the finale. I even liked Nova finally, after all the years of snide comments and disrespect, finally praising everything Spidey did for them :).

    I wonder if the"you had to re-learn the same leadership lesson every week" comment was a joke on the quality of the series' writing back then :p?

    The New Warriors were quickly lost in the shuffle once Spidey moved onto the Web Warriors, aside from the occasional appearance now-and-then, so it was nice to see them prominently again in the finale. Squirrel Girl was always definitely a highlight for this group, and it was nice to see Cloak and Dagger in fairly prominent roles. Though I guess no one is going to explain where Ka-Zar and Zabu disappeared off to :confused:.

    The Web Warriors were probably Spidey's strongest team, at least in terms of writing quality, well-defined characterizations and dynamics, and in actually using characters relevant to the Spider-Man franchise. Though if there was any issue it was that, overall, we really didn't get to see this team all-together that much over the course of the season (especially in the second half) and a lot of their development as a group seemed to happen off-screen (especially pertaining to Aunt May). Though Scarlet was always a stand-out member, and it was nice to finally see Mary Jane become relevant and involved as Spider-Woman, even if we only got to see her in that role and on the team at the very end. Still, they were a fun group to follow this season ;)

    Well, I guess it's nice that a show titled "Ultimate Spider-Man vs. the Sinister Six" would try and make it's title relevant again in the end, though while I get that forming a Sinister Six is kind of Ock's "go-to" plan to destroy Spider-Man, at this point you have to wonder if he's just running out of ideas given how many times similar teams of six Supervillains have failed to kill Spider-Man :sweat:.

    I don't even get why this roster was the "Superior Six" compared to the last roster, which was fairly underwhelming, other then trying to reference "Superior" being Otto's thing o_O.

    I mean, Ock couldn't find any better muscle then Rhino at this point? He's been on every SS roster since the group's inception and that's never been much of a guarantee for success. Hydro-Man, in his sole outing with the group, caused more trouble in one episode then Alex has in practically all his appearances. Why didn't Ock break Hydro-Man out?

    It was nice to finally see Vulture in the Sinister Six, but didn't Ock turn him into a feral beast precisely because he wasn't Sinister Six material? Also weird that he didn't use his sonic attacks that much this episode (maybe because he was fighting the brainwashing?) :confused:.

    I don't know why Ock even bothered to bring in Scorpion. Did the creators just want to remind us that he existed? Did Ock want a full animal theme for this roster? Was Scorpion the only other villain on Ock's contact list who would return his phone calls? Heck, Scorpion's appearance in this episode was jarring enough given he was the only character in the finale who's VA they didn't bring back, instead opting for Eric Bauza doing a Dante Basco impression. Which is pretty disappointing given Basco was, like, 50% of this Scorpion's appeal :(.

    I don't think anything quite sums up Ultimate Spider-Man like Crossbones, of all people, becoming the new Lizard. Though frankly he seemed more efficient before he was turned into a lizard monster. I did like how, after being cured, he's all "thanks kid, but I'm gone." Total Crossbones move :p.

    At least Kraven's pulled his weight more often-then-not, though this episode still saw him get caught in his own trap and beaten by a bunch of scrawny, non-powered, teenagers :sweat:.

    Actually, a lot of the Six were pretty easily defeated before they actually came together as a group...though I guess, if we go by Ock's plan, they might have been intentionally going easy on the team's they were fighting in order to be captured. Though it's still not a good showing for this group as a whole :shrug:.

    Cho geeking out over Tony was weird. Not in-universe, given the Iron Spider stuff, but that in the comics he's usually a Hulk fanboy and couldn't care less for Stark. Actually, if you were just introduced to Cho through this show, you would probably have no idea he has any relationship with the Hulk franchise :confused:.

    It's a shame that, with all the characters who were able to make a return for the finale, Jameson and Coulson, who were there from the beginning, didn't make it in any significant way. Jonah's absence this whole season has always been kinda jarring, but it's sad they couldn't get JK Simmons back for at least one line, same with Clark Gregg :sad:.

    It's kind of sad that Harry ended up being just a cameo in this episode as the Patrioteer. I mean, he's Peter's best friend, and he doesn't even merit a line or being part of the "it's all thanks to you Spidey" band? We didn't even get to see his facemask pop up. It's all the more weird since Matt Lanter is a main cast member and got plenty of lines as Agent Venom o_O.

    It's a good thing the first half of this finale gave at least some screentime and focus to the other teams/heroes and the supporting cast, given they were all relegated to bystanders for the entirety of the second half. While it did feel like a weird direction to take for a Spider-Man team show, it was refreshing to finally see Spidey go solo and save the day on his own in his show. And thematically, it felt right to close out a series that started with a solo Spider-Man being unable to properly handle the Frightful Four on his own, thus necessitating a team, close out with the Ultimate Spider-Man defeating the Sinister Six :cool:.

    I'm actually surprised it took this long for the show to do a "Spider-Man depowered" story (though they already kinda did "Spider-Man No More" with the season 3 Christmas episode). I also have to hand it to Ock for his slick and sadistic master plan, even if Peter probably should've realized how it was all too easy :shrug:.

    I also have to say that I felt this was maybe the strongest Tom Kenny's Doctor Octopus has been in the entire series, delivering the characters' arrogance, obsession, and sadistic nature with cold and calculated precision. Maybe having a normal body for Ock to work from helped elevate his performance :evil:?

    I liked seeing Peter go back-to-basics with his classic web-shooters, over the teched-out SHIELD issue one, showing that he never needed that hi-tech stuff to be Spider-Man...though that was kind of negated by him then hitting the SHIELD armory and picking up that stupid jetpack :sweat:.

    I guess there was some degree of karmic irony in having Peter's Archenemy (until Ock became his "greatest enemy" this season) help him out in this episode, particularly so given Osborn had been so obsessed with replicating his powers and now he was able to help Spider-Man get them back. Heck, when you think about it, Osborn is kind of responsible for all of this given his abuse of Otto and employing him to replicate Spider-Man's powers ultimately (heh) led to the Spidey/Ock rivalry :eek:.

    And Osborn just casually throws out that he knows Peter is Spider-Man, because of course he does, and at this point practically every character on this show knows Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Y'know what I hope for from the next show? Peter's secret identity to actually be integral and important again :rolleyes:.

    I think this is the first time the spider that bit Peter has ever been shown to have actually survived biting him (especially to this degree), unless we count the retcon of it quickly biting Cindy Moon (AKA Silk). Though the novelty of that wore off as as soon as they started going into Peter's blood like it's The Amazing Spider-Man 2 :shrug:.

    Norman still totally acts like a Supervillain :p.

    I don't think we needed Ock turning himself into a giant octopus monster. It felt like it undercut his final battle with Spider-Man and all the build-up to it by turning him into a generic Kaiju. And I'm also legit surprised that Peter curing him also didn't undue the nanobots' effect on him, though I guess Ock's stuck with his new body. Lucky guy :evil:.

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the show even went as far as Spidey redeeming Doctor Octopus, in-spite of everything, and we even had Crossbones leaving in gratitude. Though I guess it was sensibly developed with Otto realizing the futility of seeking fame and idolization through villainy, and gave the finale more of a sense of closure and finality by resolving Ock's issues and having him help Spider-Man. We also had Peter finally cure Alex and Adrian, which was good to finally see resolved in the end :).

    It was nice to see Iron Man one last time on the show, especially since this will probably be one of the last times we hear Adrian Pasdar in the role :ack:.

    Who needs a new Spider-Man cartoon, just do a spinoff about Scarlet and Agent Venom running SHIELD Academy together. I know that would get my butt in the seat :D.

    Though the new class of SHIELD Academy looked..interesting. We saw Frankie as Mysterio, though without any actual powers or motivation now that she has her dad back, I'm not quite sure how effective she would be as a crime-fighter. I also feel bad for MJ and Harry that they have to go back to Superhero school, especially since Mary Jane was on a team of graduates. And what's Alex doing at that class when he doesn't have any powers :confused:?

    I guess it was nice to see them debut the Spider-Signal at the last minute, even if a plain white chest signal isn't as cool as the traditional one, though it was just refreshing to see Spidey actually taking on some street crime again :rolleyes2:.

    The show closing out with Peter successfully buying the cake and easily taking out Trapster, with Fury finally complimenting him on how he's grown as a hero, was a very fitting way to bring things to an end for USM and show how far the show has come in it's own way :).
     
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    #3 Frontier, Jan 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  4. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    I appreciate they tried to tie all of the loose ends in these two episodes. I've never been a huge fan of the show but it had some pretty great moments throughout its run. I like how they brought back just about all of the characters Spidey has encountered in his many adventures and put his original team and most of the New Warriors in the spotlight again, even if only for a few scenes. I think the only people missing from this were Ka-Zar, Coulson and Doctor Connors. They could have also added a cameo from Stan Lee. :p

    The story was pretty good, overall. It's nice they also focused on Peter Parker, who hasn't been present on the show as much as I would have liked. The Osborn side-plot was a pretty nice surprise, another interesting take on the character in that he genuinely seems content in being a good guy now. Finding the original spider that bit Peter was another neat moment.

    The Superior Sinister Six were pretty cool, though the best members as far as I'm concerned were Scorpion and the Crossbones-Lizard composite character. I admit Scorpion felt kind of underwhelming here compared to his debut episode (one of my favorites from this show) and the mutated Crossbones was a bizarre idea but I kind of liked it.

    The fight scenes were good, and it's cool that had Spidey alone going up against the villains. Curing Rhino and Vulture was a nice way to end their character arcs. Doc Ock's motivation for doing all this felt kind of rushed but I liked that they tried explaining his reasoning. I didn't really care for his giant monster form but the fight scenes were neat. I liked how he pretty much redeemed himself by helping Spidey save the other heroes in the end.

    The final moments, mirroring the events from the series premiere, were great. I like it when shows do stuff like this, and this was no exception.

    I'll probably post more thoughts later on, but I enjoyed this finale. As for the show overall, it was a pretty decent and unique take on the Spider-Man mythos. Not everything they tried out worked, but there was some good stuff in it as well. The show improved as it played out, with this final season being the best one. In a way it's too bad the show is ending just as it is getting better, but at the same time, I think this is the best place to leave the story.

    Here are the cast lists for the two episodes. I think pretty much all the actors returned to voice their respective characters (except for Scorpion, as mentioned above):
     
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    #4 RoyalRubble, Jan 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  5. thomas2313412

    thomas2313412 Active Member

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    Well,That's the end of the series and I got to say It's great since it ends with a bang after five years.


    And you know it's a funny thing during the shows first run,Some of the people hated it because they think that it's not respectable to the source material but during the rest of time people started to like the show more because this show is still faithful to the elements of the comics source material and now it ends with a bang not with a whimper.

    And you the other funny thing that show began with a bad start and it ends with a good finish.So i guess now we'll wait for another spiderman animated series which will not be set in the ultimate spiderman animated run which means a reboot and hope that it doesn't begin with a 'bad start' like its ultimate predecessor .
     
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  6. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I believe Doctor Connors was there, talking to The Hulk in the background :).

    Oh yeah! Stan was another notable absence, especially since he had also been there from the beginning :eek:.
     
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  7. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    I can't say I was the biggest fan of the show but I did really appreciate just how much of a sense of closure they tried to bring. I didn't expect them to actually come up with conclusions to arcs for characters like Vulture, Rhino and Agent Venom, so kudos there.

    And I admit, the self-deprecating joke about how Spider-Man used to have to re-learn the same lesson about teamwork every single week actually got a chuckle out of me.

    It was interesting that they chose to end the show on something resembling the classic Spider-Man status quo, with Peter once again making his own tech and no longer needing SHIELD or the Web Warriors, since both the upcoming movie and new show both seem to heavily be leaning on the team-up aspect once again (up to and including Tony Stark building his costume and web-shooters in the movies).
     
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  8. Miyamoto Musashi

    Miyamoto Musashi Law Enforcer

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    "Now I know why this place is named the desert of despair.
    But I will not despair.

    Thor shall prevail."
     
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  9. Medinnus

    Medinnus Moderator
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    Not as bad as most of the series, even with plot holes you could drive a Rhino through.
     
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    #9 Medinnus, Jan 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  10. JoeMabbon

    JoeMabbon Dwarf-in-a-flask

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    I admire their solid, largely successful effort to tie up all the show's loose ends and give closure (how many action shows get that opportunity?), but it felt so rushed and contrived at times. Alot of this could have been spread out over the course of the season for greater impact as opposed to having it happen all at once. As it stands, many of the character moments don't land or have the impact they should have.

    I was really hoping there would be a scene where someone destroyed the Spider-Cycle, but we had to settle for Ock breaking the SHIELD web-shooters.
     
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  11. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I have to honestly ask myself whether I prefer him taking the jetpack over the Spider-Cycle :sweat:.
     
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  12. Miyamoto Musashi

    Miyamoto Musashi Law Enforcer

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    After the reminder of Vengeance of Loki episode from Spider-Man & his Amazing Friends, I was reminded by Attack of the Arachnoid episode with Spider-Man throwing the vial of antidote at the villain of the episode.

    I don't read Thor comics, is there a Desert of Despair in there?

    And the Anti-Spidey serum followed by webhead getting his powers back reminded me of Alistaire Smythe in The Amazing Spider-Man video game.
     
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  13. Dank

    Dank Member

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    Same with Adrian.
     
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  14. Dudley

    Dudley Moderator
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    Well that was actually pretty nice. This show started off pretty lousy (and I skipped almost all of season 2) only to really improve in season 3 and become the best Marvel cartoon airing, even though that's still not saying much. Everything wrapped up nice for the most part, and you can tell they tried to wrap up as much as they can.

    All I can say is that I hope is that the new upcoming Spider-Man cartoon is an overall better show.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  15. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    A fitting sendoff for the show I was happy to see. The reason I am happy is that a lot of animated series like this don't really have a formal conclusion, but this worked well just about any.

    I always enjoyed how the show treated Aunt May finding out about Peter being Spider-Man. I like that Aunt May wasn't treated as a dimwitted idiot, and she actually had a rational composed reaction to him being Spider-Man. Like she's actually proud of the boy she raised. Why wouldn't she be?

    Now there were some issues I had. There was a lot of weird convenient super science, or rather pseudo-science, stuff. I didn't really need to be told that the only reason Peter was able to get super powers was "because he was special" yeah yeah. Peter is special. But I think Peter is more special because of his morals and his belief in with the teachings of his surrogate parents. It's who he is as a person, not because his DNA in the first place made him able to become Spider-Man OR his parents experimented on him so it would happen or some such IE the horrendous Amazing Spider-Man movies.

    That being said, this finale did sort of actually give a conclusion to a lot of the supporting characters. Rhino actually became a normal teen again, so that got wrapped up. Sandman has gone straight, at least for now. Amadeus Cho graduates and gets a job at Stark Industries. Peter's other friends who became heroes become instructors or students at SHIELD Academy. Doctor Octopus semi-reforms. The show even went back to subplots introduced in the first season. The whole Doc Ock/Osborn mess started because they wanted to replicate Spider-Man's powers.

    If I had one problem, I was always a little annoyed with how the subplots for the other heroes from the first two seasons sort of got pushed aside this season. I think one of the better arcs of the show was Spider-Man's friendship with Nova and how they eventually became close friends, and Spider-Man did become a good leader for his team after a lot of bumps in the road at the start.

    Either way, I'm happy with what we got out of this series. In terms of story it does not surpass the 1990s animated show, but it provided a nice little trip around the Marvel world with Spider-Man at the center, and we got to see a lot of other good characters at the spotlight.

    If I would've wanted one more callback, I wish Wolverine would've been at the graduation ceremony to pay his respects. Since again, that was another one of the good relationships in the show, with even Wolverine forming a strong bond and relationship with Spider-Man after they started off like oil and water. Such is life.
     
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  16. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Other random thoughts:

    I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I might actually miss Bell as Spider-Man. Will he go down as one of the best Spider-Man VA's of all time? Maybe not. But I think overall he did his level best to work with the material he was given and help carry the show for these four years, and he's voiced the character for a very respectable amount of time. A part of me wishes he had been able to be a part of a more straightforward and better written Spider-Man cartoon, if only to give him a fairer shake as the character. If Spidey ever shows up on Assemble again, I would not mind Bell coming back :).

    Even in the very end, after returning to the forefront in the latter half of season 4 and becoming a new Superhero, Tara Strong's Mary Jane remains severely underutilized on this show...and I guess the same goes for Matt Lanter's Harry Osborn :sweat:.

    Nova's helmet getting easily ripped off makes me wonder why that hasn't happened more often, though I guess I'm not surprised to see Nova looking like an idiot one last time in the finale. One thing I certainly won't miss about this show is their version of Sam Alexander :rolleyes:.

    I wonder if this'll be the last we hear of Chi McBride as Nick Fury for a while? The character's been having a gradually diminished presence on both the show and the general MAU for a while now, oddly reflective of the movies when you think about it, so I wouldn't be surprised if they only bring him back once in a blue moon when they want to do something with SHIELD. I'm sure it'll be convenient with McBride's Hawaii Five-O schedule ;).

    I wonder if James Arnold Taylor will ever get the chance to reprise Triton again? He's always been the most under-utilized of the Royal Family, so his semi-prominent role on the show was kind of interesting, though with how the Inhumans have been handled across the shows I wouldn't be surprised if he's recast. Then again, Taylor is a semi-regular on Guardians, so he cold reprise the role there if the Inhumans ever turn up in season 2. Though with the Inhumans movie turning out to be a bust, I wonder if we'll start to see less of them in the cartoons going forward :ack:?

    I wonder if Squirrel Girl is ever going to pop up in a Marvel cartoon again, voiced by Misty Lee?

    I hope Marvel Animation is smarter about when they stunt-cast roles, so we don't end up in a situation where major characters like J. Jonah Jameson and Phil Coulson just disappear from the series because their actors likely have other commitments. This show really wasted the opportunity it had of getting JK Simmons back as Jameson for this cartoon or even introducing the Bugle to begin with :sad:.

    If nothing else, this show will likely be well-remembered for it's novelty and for it's use of obscure characters, as well as debuting several popular Marvel heroes and villains into animation for the first time. And for probably being the best-looking Marvel cartoon for a long while :rolleyes2:.
     
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  17. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    I think Bell did a better Spider-Man than Rino Romano and Neil Patrick Harris. At least a younger teen Spider-Man.
     
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  18. Freddy

    Freddy Active Member

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    Why do people always hate NPH as Spider-Man so much? Say what you want about the MTV show, but he was great as more mature Peter Parker and his bloodthirsty moments in the last episode were just chilling.
     
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  19. Troy Troodon

    Troy Troodon Well-Known Member

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    Part of my still hopes that Marvel can at least use this show's style of animation for future episodes of Avengers Assemble, or at least future direct-to-dvd films. It's probably not as expressive as some other Marvel shows but it's still pretty good it's own, possibly the best tv animation at least in terms of recent Marvel television.

    And who knows, maybe we'll still see some of these characters guest star in the other shows.
     
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  20. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    I'm not going to begrudge you for liking it. On a personal level, I just didn't really care for that show or Harris' performance.
     
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