Transformers Prime - "Nemesis Prime" - Talkback [04/07]

Discussion in 'The toonzone - General Animation Discussion' started by The Huntsman, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. The Huntsman

    The Huntsman Friend of Toon Zone

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    Today @ 8:30 PM ET on The Hub
    Hopefully all of these various plot threads are handled properly and not rushed through the course of the season.

     
  2. Neo Yi

    Neo Yi In a Dream, I Can See, You Are Not Far Away...

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    Calling it. The new MECH plan is Nemesis Prime himself. Unless something unexpected happens with this plot, I will be sorely disappointed if that is the case. Darn it, they really missed out on giving Optimus a flaw to work through back in the "Orion Pax" trilogy.
     
  3. Dragnatek

    Dragnatek Active Member

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    Yeah it's probably MECH's transformer but it would be great if say it's the actual Optimus and if it is a result of the work he did for Megatron as Orion Pax.

    But Optimus is always a boring flawless character every version of him has been.
     
  4. AlgeaX

    AlgeaX Oh, hello?

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    Every version except Animated you mean? ;)
     
  5. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator Staff Member

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    I wouldn't say he's always boring or flawless. Prime hasn't won every single fight he's had in the show just by himself, nor has he won them without taking a scratch. Both his fights with Megatron, excluding the one from season 3, had him taking a lot of damage during the fight. And technically he lost the second fight.

    I think he's also had moments where he's been interesting, such as when Raf was almost killed by Megatron and he finally made up his mind that the Decepticons and Autobots could not coexist. And just like Animated Prime he acts as the moral center for the team and strives to do the right thing at any cost. I'm not denying Animated Prime is better character wise, but I don't think Prime's version of Optimus is just a boring flawless hero.
     
  6. Sonic_Eclipse

    Sonic_Eclipse Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!

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    Optimus Primal would like a word with you.
     
  7. Neo Yi

    Neo Yi In a Dream, I Can See, You Are Not Far Away...

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    I mentioned this in one of my recaps, but Optimus Prime is more of an archetype. He's the wise and noble leader we look up. He exemplifies excellent leadership skills and judgments to his fellow comrades and in turn, for the audience who watch him onscreen. Not every one of his advice always end up the way he wishes due to bad circumstances. And then there are instances like last episode, "Crossfire" where he proves he'll back out on his own words for the greater good (an excellent scene, by the way).

    Optimus is "boring" in the sense that he's not really a character, he's someone we regard as a figure to admire and learn from. I said "flaw" in an earlier post, but I should have worded it better. I didn't mean "flaw" in the sense that he's ultra-mega-perfect and there's nothing significantly wrong with what he is now (who doesn't want a good role model in their lives), but my problem with this Optimus is that he's had a couple of chances to expand beyond his one-note personality (again, the "Orion Pax" trilogy) and the show did not do it so they can preserve status quo. I definitely agree that he had spurts of interesting moments, but it usually reverts to him going back to his old self without any lingering consequences.

    I get this is the defining Optimus for many older fans (I'm a much newer fan, so I guess I'm "immune" to this? ^_^; ), but for a show that is clearly trying to establish character growth, they're just not doing a good job on him. Almost every time they want to push past the status quo, they bring him completely back with nary a change. At this point, if they want to keep Optimus Prime as nothing but Optimus Prime, then any elaborate plots circling him should be nixed or kept as simple and one-noted as his personality. If the writers are trying to enforce a complicated and dramatic personal journey on him, then I'm not feeling it. How can I care for someone who doesn't specifically grow? It annoys me because episodes like "One Shall Fall" and "Crossfire" and his relationship with Megatron as a whole is interesting.

    I much prefer Animated Optimus as a result; he's a much more vivid and interesting character. He's someone who struggles to understand the true meaning of leadership and heroism and constantly works his butt to get there while installing morality onto his team. Most Optimus Prime is who we look up to, but Animated Optimus is who we likely are.
     
  8. Dragnatek

    Dragnatek Active Member

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    Ok ok I went a bit far with that Optimus Prime comment. Sorry about that. However in general he is seen as the "big good" for Transformers. He generally does not have any real flaws as a character, and that does go for most versions of the character. Even Primal.

    Yes the animated version stands out and that's also the only Optimus whose not the surprime leader of the autobots. They did spice things up.

    Really my comment was more that I'm sick of the hate Prime Optimus gets. Yeah he could be much more interesting but Optimus Prime has never (to me) really been an interesting character. The rest of the autobots have always been the interesting ones. Optimus Prime is like Superman in that way. He is the type of character you look up to. Who is the type of character all the others and the viewer strives to be. He is not really a relateable character but one that represents the best of the best.

    Oh I love both Optimus Prime and Superman but they are suppose to be flawless characters. The paragon of good, and incorruptible and all that. They are characters that others strive to be like, and not relateable characters as they are not suppose to be.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2012
  9. Mr. Hypocrite

    Mr. Hypocrite Detective. Hero. Hypocrite.

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    You could argue that Animated Prime is Rodimus Prime done right. No baggage and better liked.
     
  10. MetroSparkster

    MetroSparkster ...has nothing to say.

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    Nice to see Fowler get some action.
    And in the end, MECH's Silus is crushed but alive. My money's on his brain being in a robot body.
     
  11. Mandouga

    Mandouga Active Member

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    This episode seems to assume (at least, partially) that the viewer is already familiar with previous versions of the franchise, otherwise, you would never know that the "evil Optimus Prime" concept had been before. According to Wikipedia, the only other version of Nemesis Prime (that didn't apear in comics) was in Transformers Armada, where he was an evil clone of Optimus (and who was called "Scourge" in the Japanese version). If I hadn't looked into it further, I would have thought this was just going to be a "what if" episode (I realize that this show has made it a point to avoid actual "filler" stories, but still).

    At this point, I figure one of two things will be happening to Silas: he will either become a "six million dollar man" ("We can rebuild him. We have the technology"), or he will have his brain uploaded into a(nother) MECH-made transformer.
     
  12. Dragnatek

    Dragnatek Active Member

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    There was a shot of breakdown's broken down body at the end. Silas's mind is going to be transfered into Breakdown's body. I can feel it. I wonder how that will change the rivalry with Bulkhead who should not know Breakdown is dead. Or hell Silas could spy on the Decepticons as Breakdown as they should not know he's dead as his body was never found. Ether way it's going to be interesting.
     
  13. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator Staff Member

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    It was good to see Fowler offer some support for the team for once. If this episode proves anything, it's that Fowlers "still got it". And we got confirmation that Silas used to be in the military. I don't know how relevant that is going to be in the future, but it was interesting to find out nonetheless.

    I liked how the creators went out of their way to use such an obscure Transformers concept as Nemesis Prime and make a whole episode about it. I didn't even think they were going to say the name out loud in the episode! I also thought the fight at the end between Optimus and Nemesis, or Prime vs Silas, was very nice.

    Next weeks episode looks interesting... though it reeks of a clip show.
     
  14. Avengers

    Avengers New Member

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    So no bot got their spark pulled, although Prime came close. The episode was good and I'm happy to see its event's results will play out next week. I was kinda hoping the decepticons would find nemesis prime and turn him into a new decepticon but I guess not. Either way the new and improved Silas is intriguing, i'm curious if he will just be in breakdown's body or if they are going to remodel him into a new form, maybe the return of nemesis prime or a new former altogether, either way I doubt they will use the parts to rebuild Silas because I think the whole idea is to put him and the bots an even footing.
     
  15. Monte

    Monte Active Member

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    No it does not. I don't think i ever saw the nemesis prime episodes of armada and did not look it up and followed the plot of this episode just fine. I mean why should the audience care that nemsis prime is a reference to the comics or previous series; That's unimportant and irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that audience is able to follow the story and the story is structured in such a way that it requires no previous knowledge to follow it.
     
  16. HEATXZ

    HEATXZ Duck Knght

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    Great episode :anime:
    The Optimus Prime vs Nemesis Prime was awesome
     
  17. Mr. Hypocrite

    Mr. Hypocrite Detective. Hero. Hypocrite.

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    Behold, the SCOURGE that is ...NEMESIS!!!!

    Wow, Nemesis Prime put up some fight. Getting the drop on Arcee and Bulkhead (who may be just shy of being as strong as Prime) is some feat, but whooping the big guy himself in a straight up fight is something else.

    Justified possibly by silas' claim about how his bot doesn't feel pain (and arguably doesn't grow tired), but still.

    Interested to see how the next ep follows up on this. Since the government probably has a-lot of questions about trusting the Autobots.

    While I prefer them to have a good relationship with the governments of the world, and the humans as a whole, I think such an ep makes sense.
     
  18. jak d ripr

    jak d ripr New Member

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    I liked this episode, a human designed copy of optimus going toe to toe with prime was a tough sell, but ill let it slide on the whole "it doesn't feel pain" point. Overall I like the fact that the episodes are building off things that happened in the past while simultaneously setting things up for the future. Im looking forward to seeing what MECH do with silas and breakdown. And I guess for any who were in doubt, this is pretty much the final confirmation that our boy breakdown is dead(silent tear).

    Overall nice episode, personally I don't have issues with optimus's characterization. Yes he is the boring, borderline perfect leader, but I guess since I grew up on that image i don't mind that it hasn't changed in 25 years. It would be nice to see him get some character development, but of all the autobots I think he needs it the least.
     
  19. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy This ain't Pokemon!

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    I don't care for MECH, but I still enjoyed this episode. I was kinda hoping that Nemesis would be his own character, and not just a remote controlled robot, but oh well.

    Also, Fowler finally gets to show his stuff.
     
  20. Undrave

    Undrave Forever Burning Heart!

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    I liked how Optimus basically crushed Silas with his own toy, that part was cool. That Silas has enough experience to match Optimus' millenia long fight with Megatron? On a REMOTE CONTROL rig (not even mo-cap that would benefit from his muscle memory?) that was a bit harder to swallow. The 'don't feel pain' bit does help to explain why it didn't flinch and I guess it was a good advantage.

    I'm thinkin' Headmaster for Silas. He'll use Breakdown's body but still be able to detach from it. Can't think Knockout would apreciate. I hope what's left of Breakdown fights back.
     

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