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Toon Zone Talkback - "Tiny Toon Adventures" Season 1 Vol. 2 Announced

Discussion in 'The Warner Bros. Club' started by Chaz, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. Strong Suck

    Strong Suck Member

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    It's something like that "Save the Taz" episode of Taz-Mania, whereas 555-TAZZ was really DINGO'S number.
     
  2. Framwinkle

    Framwinkle Crazy Squirrel

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    The number was actually a 1-800 number, so that may have been where they got into trouble.

    The original dialoge goes:

    Babs: "With our world-wide statelite hookup, we can answer thousands of call-in requests at a time. So dial, 1-800-555-ACME right now to put in your request."

    Buster: "Ring those phones, toonsters!"

    I also have audio of the segment in an MP3, but I don't have a place to upload it, and I don't know if sharing it would get me kicked off the forum or not, so I think I'll wait until I hear something from a mod.

    You know what's really sad? The audio on the copy I made from my VHS tape sounds better than the official DVD. There's just something wrong with that.
     
  3. Keeper

    Keeper Active Member

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    At least there's no gag missing. That would be a shame.
     
  4. TServo2049

    TServo2049 THE WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE

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    Freelance was actually based in New Zealand, not the U.S.

    As for Encore Cartoons, I have no clue. I have narrowed it down to two possibilities.

    1. It could be Bill Hutten and Tony Love's Encore Enterprises, who did the Buttons & Rusty "Chucklewood Critters" stuff. Well, maybe...those also had overseas work, by Wang.

    2. On season 1 of the 90s "Iron Man" and "Fantastic Four," I remember mention of "Encore Communications," a company credited as doing the opening title sequences, with Dennis Ho as producer; on Iron Man, it was in cooperation with Rainbow Animation Group in Korea, and on FF, it was in cooperation with...Kennedy.

    And #2 is no longer actually a possibility; I recently found out that Encore Communications was a post-production studio in Santa Monica, CA; they obviously did the video/paintbox graphics/effects for the intros.

    Encore Cartoons could be related to Encore Enterprises, though if the outsourcing for Encore's "Chucklewood" stuff was done at Wang, why would the TTA stuff look any poorer in comparison to, say, Wang's TTA stuff?

    An interesting footnote; for the late-90s "Chucklewood Critters" series Encore Enterprises did, the overseas animation was supervised by...Glen Kennedy.

    But still, nothing can be proven.
     
  5. TServo2049

    TServo2049 THE WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE

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    You know...looking at Encore's work, I think Encore Cartoons may have just been some upstart overseas outfit which didn't deliver up to par and ended up shutting down.

    When I see Encore's animation, I think "fly by night"...
     
  6. SB20xx

    SB20xx Oooooh!
    Staff Member Moderator Reporter

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    According to Tom Minton, Encore was a domestic studio.

    For a time, I had a theory that Encore was a part of Kennedy Cartoons, as their work had been used in every episode they worked on, but having watched the three again on DVD, I'm pretty sure they were their own entity and WB went to Kennedy to fill in the gaps of scenes that were extremely poorly animated, or needed to fill time. Examples:

    -Hero Hamton: Right in the middle of Hamton's "Happy Feet" song, Hamton plays jump rope with Babs. Why is that in there? It serves no purpose, other than to fill a few seconds. There's also the freak-out scene after Hamton wakes up from what he thought was a nightmare, which is animated by Harold Duckett of Kennedy Cartoons. And a few other bits in here look more like Kennedy's work and less like Encore, though I can't remember specifics right now.

    -Strange Tales of Weird Science: The opening is by Kennedy, which runs a good minute or two. And it's completely unrelated to the other wraparounds. My guess is it was put in there to fill time, as Encore's work ran way short.

    -Looniversity Days: Jon McClenahan does a few bits in the first act, like minister Hamton at the locker and an alternate version of "That's my name, don't wear it out!" Interestingly, this episode has the least Kennedy of any of the Encore episodes.
     
  7. TServo2049

    TServo2049 THE WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE

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    Hmmm, he says "domestic" and "very local." I am now really starting to wonder if Encore Cartoons was, in fact, Bill Hutten and Tony Love's studio. I know that the early Buttons and Rusty specials say Encore Enterprises is located in Studio City, while later ones say it's in Valencia. Except that for some reason, I can't imagine a studio run by these two animation vets turning out such bad animation...

    I wonder if I'll find any clues in the credits of "Hero Hamton."

    And I am really confused as to why the McClenahan version of "That's my name, don't wear it out" from "The Learning Principal" isn't in all versions. Where did Martianinvader's copy come from? Syndication? Fox? Was the McClenahan bit added after the original airing, or was it only in the original airing?

    I'm almost wondering if it wasn't the same situation as the Rhino "Transformers" DVDs, where they accidentally went *backwards* to an earlier version which didn't have later retakes. (In that case, they went back to the original 35mm negatives, which didn't include the retakes, introducing all sorts of mistakes which had been fixed for the final aired versions!)

    That's why I am wondering which version was in the original airing. I know that a few cartoon shows out there had "retake" versions where unsatisfactory footage was redone by the overseas studio, but didn't make it to the original broadcast; the "fixed" version would be the one that showed up in reruns. I know that the commentary for the B:TAS episode "Off Balance" says that there were multiple "takes" which aired.

    For another good example, there was an episode of "Captain N" which originally aired as a weird, unfinished/first-take form; for the most blatant example, there were a couple scenes which *didn't have backgrounds* - they may have been rough cel setups which were used because the backgrounds weren't ready yet. But either way, all reruns used a fixed retake version of the episode...but the Shout! Factory DVD set went *back* to the original "rough" version.
     
  8. TServo2049

    TServo2049 THE WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE

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    Darn, I looked at the Hero Hamton credits - no clues. If Bill Hutten or Tony Love were listed in Timing Directors, it'd be a clue. (Strangely enough, Hutten *was* a timing director on "Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow"...)

    And I had no idea that Fox cut the Perfecto Prep song from "The Acme Bowl." Because, like Bicycle Bob eating the scorpions, it was intact on both Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network...

    I was *obsessed* with that song back in the days when the show was on Nick, so obviously I did see it there (just like I clearly remember seeing "Elephant Issues" on both Nick and CN...)
     
    #108 TServo2049, May 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2011
  9. SB20xx

    SB20xx Oooooh!
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    I'd like to know that, too. The non-McClenahan version of that bit is the only one I remember.
    Yeah, unfortunately Encore had no animation supervisors listed, thus making it harder to know where they came from or who was involved. Your theories are certainly interesting, though...
     
  10. TServo2049

    TServo2049 THE WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE

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    Well, I decided to ask someone who was involved in the Encore episodes, Gerard Baldwin, who directed "Hero Hamton" and "Looniversity Daze", and who I'd e-mailed before about something else.

    I sent him screenshots, but he didn't recognize them; he said he didn't see any of the animation he directed because he was only at WBA a few weeks before he was fired by Tom Ruegger. (So, in other words, he was fired before the episodes were completed? Then who finished them?)

    He did have this to say about Bill Hutten and Tony Love, though: "Of Hutton-Love I know they always did crappy work...perhaps they were 'Encore'".

    So perhaps, indeed, Encore Cartoons was Encore Enterprises, Bill Hutten and Tony Love's studio in Studio City (later Valencia).

    Here's a clip from one of the Buttons and Rusty specials Hutten and Love did; I chose this one because it was one of the ones that didn't have outsource work at Wang: [Link removed]

    Here's one that did have overseas work done at Wang, but was done in 1990, right around the same time as TTA: [Link removed]

    Even though Baldwin says that Hutten & Love's studio was known for "crappy work," this stuff doesn't look nearly as bad as the TTA episodes, and since the main animator on both of these was veteran animator Ed Love, it makes it even harder to envision this studio being the "Encore Cartoons" of TTA...

    ...yet I can find no record of any other company named "Encore" in the California business search at the Secretary of State's website which could have been an animation studio, or which remotely fits the description Tom Minton gave of it being a local studio.

    The mystery remains unsolved. Geez, I wish someone could clear this up. Minton's blog comment seemed to imply that he didn't remember everything about it...or does he? Does anybody have contact w/ him?

    Tom Ruegger said Encore was a local (L.A.-area) studio. Martianinvader, do you think you could, if you ever get the opportunity to talk to Ruegger again, ask him if he remembers anything more specific about Encore?
     
    #110 TServo2049, May 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2009
  11. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    I'm beginning to form a theory about DVDs and why retakes never appear in them. I'm gonna guess that retakes are included in a different reel entirely, meant only for broadcast, and they didn't redo the master because that would cost extra and in the age of VHS they figured the likelihood of needing the master again wasn't too good.

    It could be that "Son of Wacko World of Sports" originally came back from overseas without title cards. Only Mr. R can settle this; I'll have to send him a new E-mail soon and hope he can respond.

    My copy of "The Learning Principal" is from Fox.
     
  12. TServo2049

    TServo2049 THE WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE

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    Do you think you could ask him about the mysterious Encore Cartoons, too? That is, if you haven't asked him already...

    And speaking of Encore, I looked at the jump rope scene at the beginning of "Hero Hamton," the one that Speedy Boris has always said was done by Kennedy. It does look like Kennedy, but at the same time, it looks more sloppy and off-model than anything I recall in any other Kennedy episode. Heck, there isn't even proper lip sync, it just looks like they're cycling the same frames over and over.

    I swear, Encore at their worst makes Kennedy (whose animation I've always liked, if only for its bizarre quirkiness) look like TMS (or at least StarToons). The closest thing I can compare Encore to, at least their worst stuff, is those Korean redrawn Looney Tunes. Nah, I won't even be *that* generous...they look like the redrawn Betty Boop cartoons (which are, IMO, even worse than the LTs). :)

    How could work this bad have possibly come out of a Hollywood-based studio? I can't even blame the Fil-Cartoons ink and paint crew, because they turned out much better ink and paint work on other episodes (and other series) than these.
     
  13. The Spectre

    The Spectre Member

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    I thought that Purple Plucky was created to avoid a continuity error... Plucky meets Buster in the hall after Buster leaves, so he can't be in class at the same time. Then again, I think Mary looks caucasian in the first shot, so who knows...?

    Oddly enough, on the TTA Reference Guide "Hero Hamton" is listed as being animated by Kennedy Cartoons (with Ink & Paint and Camera by Fil-Cartoons), not Encore.

    And as for Buster's "Why can't I get any...?" I assume he's referring to the song's title, "Respect". He wishes he had some respect.
     

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