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Tom and Jerry vs. Looney Toons

Discussion in 'Back To The Inkwell - Classic Cartoons Discussion' started by juan5557903, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member

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    Looney Tunes are better in the sense that you can do so much more with dialogue (puns, etc). There are so many memorable lines and expressions. "IT JUST DON'T ADD UP!!!" "MON-U-MENTAL!!!" "Stigmatism!" "It isn't 'you don't have to shoot him now'; it's 'you don't have to shoot ME now'! Well I say he DOES have to shoot me now; so shoot me now!"

    The thing about Tom & Jerry, is what several others have mentioned; it breaks from the usual rut that the cat always loses. Plus, the general relationship between them, where they're more just sparring competitors than the typical predator and prey. They can even be friends or at least team up at times.
    When it entered daily syndication in '77 (I didn't know about it before then), it was a welcome relief from all the other cat-as-bad-guy cartoons (such as Looney Tunes, Mighty Mouse and Herman & Katnip).

    Apparently the Academy must have thought it was better as well, as they took the most Oscars.
     
  2. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member

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    I had been thinking of categorizing the different endings. Tom wins; Jerry wins, and different forms of "draw"; such as both lose (Baby Puss, Baby Butch) both win (Triplet Trouble, Neopolitan Mouse), and then others such as Tot Watchers, where they both kind of lose, but the issue is resolved (the officer sees the baby walking down the street by himself, indicating they were telling the truth).

    You have several, especially in the Chuck Jones series, where one has the upper hand, the other strikes back, and then they end on a friendly note; such as Of Feline Bondage. Back-to back releases Ah, Sweet Mouse Story of Life and Tom-Ic Energy have Jerry helping Tom out of situations he got into from chasing him, and then the two shaking hands while continuing the chase. These I consider sort of "both win".
    In I'm Just Wild about Jerry, it's the same thing, though Jerry just gets his angel wings and floats off. That's sort of Jerry winning, but then having mercy on Tom.

    The Chuck Junes series had a lot of cute endings like this, and it did fit with the overall uniqueness of Tom & Jerry I've been discussing.

    Snowbody Loves Me (In addition to the original series' "The Night Before Christmas" are the reverse of that where Tom nearly destroys Jerry, (both by throwing him outside on the snow) and then has mercy, and they end on a friendly note.

    Then you have a few where they're pretty much on the same footing, not one ahead, and it ends like that. The Truce Hurts is the best example of that, even throwing Spike into the mix.

    Some of Tom's "happy endings", I never really regarded as such. In Heavenly Puss and Life With Tom, Tom is basically coming out on the bottom, but recants, and learns to be content or grateful in the situation.
    This is the opposite of the above scenario. The loser recants instead of the winner.

    You have a sort of "one wins without the other losing", like in Pet Peeve, which is really a Tom/Spike battle, and Jerry is really not even involved at all. They both get thrown out (losing), yet at the last moment, grab the refrigerator and carry it off with them. So they sort of win, but Jerry doesn't lose (especially with all the food stocked up in his hole, which the owners didn't know about).

    Then, the stuff that is neither win/lose, such as That's My Mommy, Downhearted Duckling and Mouse in Manhattan (though the latter could be seen as the reverse of the last example. Things are going unfavorably for Jerry, and he recants and becomes content/grateful. Though he wasn't battling against Tom through the story; apart from spitefully running away).

    Another one, that is almost an exception to the "Tom never wins in the Gene Deitch shorts" pattern is Calypso Cat, which ends fairly similarly to Mouse For Sale and Duel Personality (another definite win for Tom), with Tom somehow striking at Jerry until fade-out. The reason why I don't consider it a win for him, is because that's what Jerry wanted, and ruined his little Caribbean romance to do it. So Jerry was smiling as he was running, and the rope wasn't actually hitting him as it was in the beginning, so that's still basically a win for him; just a bit softer than all the other Deitch films. From reading the synopsis in Brion's book, however, it looks like a win for Tom. ("...he [Tom] consoles himself by chasing Jerry all through the return trip").

    So to keep it on topic, all of these different and unique sorts of endings are what made Tom & Jerry so good, and standing out from all other classic cartoon series.
     
  3. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    I would rather compare Looney Tunes to all the MGM cartoons. Still i like MGM cartoons too but LT is always my fav.
     
  4. DVDLooney

    DVDLooney Active Member

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    I'd say Looney Tunes for three reasons:

    1) I'm diehard fan (hence my profile pic of Bugs from "Napoleon Bunny-part")
    2) My fondest memories are with the Looney Tunes.
    3) I love the one-shots too.
     
  5. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    Same here:

    1. more variety, MGM only had Barney bear, tom and jerry, and droopy, none of the other characters made it long enough
    2. the characters have more personalities, Barney Bear is a dumb bear, tom and jerry just do their thing
    3. one-shots are better than happy harmonies, although happy harmonies are not bad too, still better than silly symphonies.
     
  6. Ducktales Fan

    Ducktales Fan Classic Television Fan Here

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    Looney Tunes, no contest. Tried watching Tom and Jerry several of times and it just never held my attention. However, I do you like the spin-off series, Tom and Jerry Kids Show.
     
  7. Rabbitearsblog

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    Looney Tunes for me. I also enjoyed Tom and Jerry, but Looney Tunes has been a huge part of my childhood and my all time favorite cartoon character is definitely Bugs Bunny!
     
  8. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

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    I have to admit even as a kid though I enjoyed a lot of the classic bits of slapstick and anarchy and scenarios in Tom and Jerry, I wasn't fully able to get into the shorts mostly because 90% of them ended with Tom as the loser and Jerry as the victor and that always bugged me. And yeah they try to make Tom appear as more the jerk or fueled with more ego or the agressor but I don't know I always saw Jerry's looks and pranks and retaliations as something more akin to a jerk or someone who only claims to actually care or be a nice guy but was deep down as much of if not more a jerk then Tom. Thus why my favorite shorts are either ones where Tom has an edge at least some part over Jerry (like the one about Jerry painting himself up as a white mouse to impress the mother character and Tom paints himself up as well and actually gets to end the short kicking around Jerry) or they're a bit more friendly to one another to make their rivarly not seem so one sided (like the one where they have a duel where both sides just crash and hurt one another and that wasn't even a Hanna Barbera segment I believe) or it focuses on other characters (like the country uncle singer or Jerry's super tough cousin for instance) and less about their specific dynamic. I mean I never hated the concept or team even now but yeah a lot of the library of shorts especially when I formed my own earnest critical opinion I can't really get into compared to Looney Tunes.

    As yeah LT by far are superior. Better writing, better variety of characters and heck even better scenarios. Let's even take out the Bugs and Daffy and Porky ilk and focus on stuff similiar to Tom and Jerry, like say Sylvester and Tweety. Though I never cared much for Granny I think I generally prefer Sylvester and Tweety since because they can talk to one another you get a better understanding of their dynamic and you generally get Sylvester actually painted in a much more negative light and thus are usually more fine with him getting the once over. And yeah I know the silent dynamic is part of Tom and Jerry but Looney Tunes still does that better with Wile E Coyote and Road Runner. I think the actual prat falls and gags work better there (even if the slapstick isn't as "hard hitting") mostly because it's made more clear that though the Road Runnder can be a prankster and enjoy the torment the Coyote suffers, you can root for him because clearly Wile E is always starting trouble and even in one segment is called out on "why don't you just get something else" and we see it's much more just an ego thing for him. Thus why I'm much more up for seeing him fail and get the once over then seeing that happen with Tom honestly.
     
  9. jaylop97

    jaylop97 L Twins

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    I always preferred Looney Tunes because of how many scenarios were always painted in a better light. Tom and Jerry never grew well for me knowing that it was mainly Tom trying to do something and Jerry was always the one to trigger Tom and made things worse, this aspect has been ongoing for most incarnations and just never really works knowing that Tom is the Anti-Hero on most occasions because of how he has to protect his owners from mice like Jerry and Jerry isn't innocent in most situations. Outside of that other stories didn't work because out of the house setting it was mainly Jerry ruining Tom's fun which isn't the ideal motivation that I pictured the show and since they can't talk for some reason even though other animals in their universe can talk it leaves less credibility to either character. Also Tom's angry owner in the Gene Deitch era was really scary and definitely didn't seem funny to me.

    Looney Tunes really did always have more to say knowing that in most occasions like with Elmer Fudd, Bugs and Daffy they did a better job presenting Bugs as someone who outwits people and clearly is someone who really isn't the nicest person in the world for obvious reasons but as always his line of comedy did work better knowing everyone he was around really weren't portrayed well and for Daffy he was harmed but was able to pull himself up in a credible way from Bugs incidents and was just naive. The characters in general did have similar roles but again the show did things a little more better in presentation.
     
    #29 jaylop97, May 8, 2017
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  10. ShadowBlinky

    ShadowBlinky Never A Good Bot

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    You must mean the Gene Deitch era.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. jaylop97

    jaylop97 L Twins

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    You are right on that one, I always mixed up the two's era.
     
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  12. ToonReel

    ToonReel Active Member

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    I do admit I liked how T+J tried to spruce things up so the formula didn't get stale. I think Looney Tunes wins through it's whole filmography, which is WAY more versatile, but if you rounded it off to only one of it's formulas, most of which had a rather 'seen one, seen 'em all' feel (eg. Pepe Le Pew, Sylvester vs Tweety, Road Runner), I think Tom and Jerry would win.

    I also kind of like how more even handed and unpredictable the formula was for Tom and Jerry, while Looney Tunes spearheaded very one sided rivalries with a clear winner and loser every single time outside very rare instances Bugs or Speedy lost. The only exception was the Porky vs Daffy series, and even that eventually winded down as Daffy's personality altered. The 40s Looney Tunes could often be rather unpredictable, but the 50s/60s Looney Tunes were usually all about some loser picking a doomed battle with a winner. By contrast the 50s was just about the point Hanna Barbara had evened out the chemistry and dynamic with Tom and Jerry.

    Maybe that was why Jones era Tom and Jerrys were a bit more clunky than Hanna Barbara's. I don't think he was used to two little jerks taking and dishing it out at an even level. He even said he wasn't fond of the screwball formula and characters picking on each other for no reason.

    Yeah, Sylvester was probably LT's cruelest butt monkey. Wile E Coyote was at least usually a victim to his own stubbornness and flawed mechanics, while for Elmer, WB even admitted they didn't want to go too far with him. Sylvester on the hand lost badly in nearly every cartoon he was in, even when he didn't bring it on himself (e.g. Canned Feud is even worse). Even two of his 'victories' involved him dying. It says something when even Daffy got to beat Speedy before Sylvester did.

    This is the problem with one sided formulas, if only one character is getting the brunt of it all, you have to make damn well sure they're the ones who deserve it.
     
    #32 ToonReel, May 9, 2017
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  13. dothesmartthing

    dothesmartthing Me too.

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    I like both Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry. Probably the only reason Looney Tunes stands out a little more is because of variety: Pop culture references, diverse characters and their personalities, and clever dialogues. Tom and Jerry seem to always go through the same-old, same-old type of thing by chasing each other, but maybe that alone helped made them famous.
     

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