"Thor: Ragnarok" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Marvel Live-Action Movies and Television' started by Yojimbo, Nov 3, 2017.

?

Rate this movie

  1. *****

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. ****1/2

    2 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. ****

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  4. ***1/2

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  5. ***

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. **1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. **

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  8. *1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Oh, come on.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    30,733
    Likes Received:
    3,328
    [​IMG]

    "Let The Games Begin"

    Thor: Ragnarok
    Release Date: November 3, 2017 (November 2 advance screenings)
    Studio: Walt Disney Pictures, Marvel Studios
    Directors: Taika Waititi
    MPAA Rating: PG -13 (for for intense sequences of sci-fi violence and action, and brief suggestive material)
    Screenwriters: Eric Pearson, Craig Kyle, and Christopher Yost
    Starring: Chris Hemsworth, Tom Hiddleston, Mark Ruffalo, Cate Blanchett, Idris Elba, Jeff Glodblum, Tessa Thompson, and Karl Urban

    Plot Summary: Imprisoned, the mighty Thor finds himself in a lethal gladiatorial contest against the Hulk, his former ally. Thor must fight for survival and race against time to prevent the all-powerful Hela from destroying his home and the Asgardian civilization.

    Discuss Thor: Ragnarok right here!

    Related Discussion:
    -Thor: Ragnarok Pre-Release News and Discussion Thread
    -Doctor Strange Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Guardians of the Galaxy Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Thor: The Dark World Feature (Spoilers)
    -Marvel Cinematic Universe News & Discussion (Spoilers)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Freddy

    Freddy Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    66
    Came back from seeing this and... I feel extremely mixed. Like, is not a bad movie, but is not great either. Looking it from the point-of-view of a more casual movie-goer, it is probably the best Thor movie in terms of pure entertaiment value, but for a Thor - fan like myself it is little infuriating in places.

    The story is good, but pretty dam disjointed. Hela's conquest of Asgard and Thor's misadventures on Sakaar never really feel like they are part of the same movie. The dramatic stuff happening on Asgard is engaging and the goofy stuff going on Sakaar is fun, but neither is really allowed to show their full potential, because they are fighting for the screen-time. It feels like Waititi wanted to do a comedic space adventure, while Marvel wanted dramatic change of status quo for Thor, and no compromise between the two was even attempted. Like I said, both plots are good on their own right, but they have trouble coexisting.

    Casting choices are great, like in every MCU movie, and most of the characters are captivating. Valkyrie and Thor's fellow gladiators are great additions to the cast, and the former is easily one of MCU's best female heroes. Hulk is ton of fun and Mark Ruffalo clearly enjoys finally having actual dialogue. Jeff Goldblum's Grandmaster was great comedic villains, while Cate Blanchett hams-it-up wonderfully and makes fun main villain, even though she is not the most complex character. I would say that Hela is, overall, on par with most of the Phase 1 Marvel villains. She is better than Killian or Whiplash, but not particulary great. Skurge is completely wasted, when compared to his comic book counterpart, and his
    death scene
    is not even half as captivating as it was in the original comic. It is also downright insulting how this movie treated Warriors Three.

    One of my biggest problems was the sheer amount of comedy. This movie tries way too hard to be funny, ending up with more misses than hits. Granted, that was also kinda the problem with Guardians of the Galaxy movies, but there it kinda was part of the style/tone of their world. With Thor, there were two movies that set a very specific tone for these characters and now it feels weird how in the third movie everyone seems to be a comedian. I personally felt that Thor suffered most from this. There were frankly too many scenes where Thor disappeared and was replaced by Chris Hemsworth's comedy persona, which lead to him acting most of the movie out of character. I kept thinking to myself "that's not what Thor would say/do" everytime Hemsworth tried to be funny. To be fair, the movie does know when to be serious and doesn't ruin any dramatic scenes with forced jokes or the like. I just personally wouldn't have minded, if the comedy was toned down little bit.

    What the movie really does deliver on, is the action. Everything moves fast and is extremely colorful, but it is still easy to tell what is going on and every character has their own distinctive fighting style. The heavily hyped Thor vs Hulk fight does not disappoint and the climactic battle makes your heart throb. This movie captured Thor's raw power better than any of the previous MCU movies and it is ironically the one where he loses his hammer.

    Overall, my feelings for the movie do skew more towards the positive side, but I can't act like that I don't feel little dissatisfied with a lot of things about it. If Kevin Feige announced tomorrow that Marvel will never make more solo movies for "the big three" of the Avengers, Iron Man and Captain America fans would probably feel satisfied with what they got (lack of Mandarin notwithstanding), but Thor fans would rightfully feel that they never got the definitive Thor movie. So many great characters and storylines that were never used, but with the status quo we are left with at the end of this movie, I'm not sure we could get them even if they made another Thor movie. Maybe I need to distant my feelings as a Thor - fanboy and watch the movie again with more open mind, but currently Thor: Ragnarok is, in my opinion, the weakest movie based on Marvel property this year.

    Oh, but the soundtrack was frigging dope! Can't go wrong with 80's style synthesizer score! I'm seriously considering getting the soundtrack.
     
  3. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    19,582
    Likes Received:
    659
    Full thoughts when I have time to process, but definitely the best Thor movie, and a fun time throughout. Thor is finally a fun character, Valkyrie is the best new character (but Korg is fun too) and Hela and Grandmaster are scene stealers.

    I have some quibbles, but they mostly stem from the comic fan in me, and less to do with actual quality issues.
     
  4. the greenman

    the greenman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    13,338
    Likes Received:
    1,004
    Saw it last night. Hmmmm. I'm highly mixed about it, and I have some thoughts written down on why. I will say this it was indeed 'fun' and we need that this day and age. However, as a polar opposite to DC/WB, it's possible to go too far.

    Sent from my LGMS428 using Tapatalk
     
  5. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Messages:
    13,322
    Likes Received:
    113
    I think that by now, we're all desensitized to the fact that Hollywood types will play fast & loose with comics history in order to tell the story they want.

    That said, let's remember that Hela is not Thor's sister or Loki's 1/2-sister in traditional canon. Cheap excuse to put the Goddess of Death into play. She'll be back at some point. Skurge didn't fit in well w/o Marvel's Enchantress at his side. Total waste of the Warriors Three, and, oh, did co-authors Craig Yost & Craig Kyle, who should know better, waste an opportunity to have Fandral, Hogun, & Volstagg share a scene with Hulk. That would've been comedy gold.

    Like the ersatz Mandarin in "Iron Man 3", Grandmaster is used here for laughs, and Goldblum did a good job chewing scenery. Well, it's better than those Apartments.com commercials....
     
  6. the greenman

    the greenman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    13,338
    Likes Received:
    1,004
    The MCU has always been 'fun'. Going back to Iron Man, I did not know exactly what to expect, as I wasn't familiar with neither Favreau or a post Ally McBeal RDJ. However, with that team, I probably should've trusted it to be good. Fast forward to Incredible Hulk (which I think is my favorite Hulk) then both Thor and Captain America, I knew the MCU was going well, especially as those films were 'fun'. By the time when we get to GotG, I was unfamiliar with that iteration of the team, so with arms folded in discerning protest, I found it 'fun'.

    In terms of Ragnarok, it is something of a completely different ilk. Having combined two storylines Ragnarok of Thor (which I had not read) and Planet Hulk (which I've remember the cartoon more than comic). Now we have those melded together in the MCU, but the style is in that GotG style. No, not quite! I get my Walt Simonson Thor finally in the opening. I get bits and pieces of Planet Hulk. However, my I don't care for maraschino cherries, chocolate chips, sliced limes, blueberry whipped cream on my pizza.

    The film left me fulfilled in being a comicbook movie, but what comic? Why am I forced to watch a comedy. The whole film felt very weird to me. Hemsworth as Thor seems to have finally come into his own, which we seen him figure out by each film he was in. The vfx on Hulk was kinda disappointing in some scenes; Ruffalo was perfect. As an introduction to Valkyrie, came off cheesy and almost predictable. I feel like she at least had a good backstory. Hela was the mainstay MCU villain, barely survived her comedic try. Goldblum's Grandmaster reminded me of Ard from the Den segment in Heavy Metal.

    Way too much comedy which surprisingly almost jars you out of the movie, very similar to how I felt about Spider-Man Homecoming. It almost has a deliberate cheesy 80's sci-fi film with pop synth score. Ref: Flash Gordon, Ice Pirates, Earth Girls are Easy, and of course Buckaroo Banzai.



    Sent from my LGMS428 using Tapatalk
     
  7. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    30,733
    Likes Received:
    3,328
    Ragnarok was a really good movie. Lot's a great comedy bits and colors. Was surprised with that they did to Thor and Asgard but still feels like it was for the progression of the MCU not just for shock factor. It was also a nice progression that he had the thunder the whole time, not the hammer but I was wondering throughout if he was going to get the Odinforce but I guess not or it's not a thing in the MCU like the comics. I think the comedy was a better executed in this movie than in GoTG Vol.2. Lot of better one-liners. I still have a soft spot for those 80s buddy cop movies like 48 Hours or the cult comedy sci-fi stuff like Big Trouble in Little China so this movie was a hit with me.

    The death of Loki play was so meta. The cameo of Matt Damon, the other Hemsworth and Sam Neil as the actors was omg hilarious. And they pretty much didn't stop there with him leaving Odin at an old folks home that got demolished, the Frog Thor nod, the snake story, Strange sending Loki on a 30 minute free fall, Thor repeatedly throwing stuff at him just to be sure, fitting in right away at Sakaar, seeing Hulk -- and it was a bit of a surprise he came back to help Thor. Though the way he looked at the Tesseract, he for sure grabbed it after he resurrected Surtur. And will probably fork it over to Thanos to save himself and the Asgardians on the ship.

    Hela calling out Odin on being revisionist with history was on the money - nice twist she originally wielded the hammer and was the first born. Unless I missed it, I bet Hela was the one who slashed Odin's eye, too. Poetic. It was almost pitiful that Hela made a lot of points but just couldn't not-be-violent. She probably would have restored order in the 9 Realms but her expansionist ambitions would have been bad and she would have threatened Earth. Hela outing the Infinity Gauntlet in the vault was amusing.

    Grandmaster - well Goldblum just owned him. The bit during the Willy Wonka Pure Imagination theme was a little intriguing saying he was the 'first lost' -- got me wondering what events led to him being lost, a mistake or a battle. I was relieved they didn't make his love of games M.O. over the top and subtle in areas like when he takes a shine to Loki and Valkyrie competing on how long they'll take to find Thor. All the style, colors, and aliens on Sakaar -- felt like a big love letter to Kirby. I thought for a hot second that melt stick was the Soul Stone but nah. Can't be. Hmm. Calling the tie at the end was awesome.

    Hulk being in control for 2 years and his progression was a good turn. I think fans of the MCU have been waiting for it for years. Though foreboding with Bruce describing how his brain was feeling or fearing he couldn't come back if he transformed again. Couldn't blame him for not wanting to leave Sakaar at first.

    For me, other than killing off Warriors Three "NO!!!" and not having anytime to offer an explanation about Sif being missing from the movie when they got a quick bit about Jane. I heard they called the actress at the last minute and she was busy with Blindspot but maybe that's a good thing -- they might have been planning to off Sif. Now they got to say something like she was off-world on a mission and is stranded somewhere now. I did groan at the replay of Black Widow.

    The hammer, Asgard, and Asgardians have come back in the comics -- and Broxton has been established in the MCU back in Agent Carter season 2. And the Grandmaster's tower, I think those past champions were Ares, Beta Ray Bill, Man-Thing and Bi-Beast? Happy 55 years Thor and Hulk. :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    19,582
    Likes Received:
    659
    Now that I've seen the film for a second time, and have my thoughts straightened, I can do my full review.

    But dang, Yojimbo! You're a tough act to follow! :p

    Anyways, definitely the best Thor film (which isn't too hard; the first Thor is a solid origin flick, but not high-tier MCU, and Dark World is arguably the worst MCU film in particular). It finally fully embraces Thor's true power, goes full-on comic book style, and the title character finally seems to come into himself. Thor always came across as the blandest Avengers, but here, Hemsworth and director Taika Watiti have given him a strong (and likable) personality. Naturally, Australian humor works really well for Hemsworth.

    I already mentioned that they finally get Thor's powers right; the scene in the climax where he unleashes his full strength with that Led Zeppelin song in the background was a cheer-worthy moment. He'll need this power for Infinity War!

    But I also like the small scenes that showcase that Thor actually has some brains, too, like when he got back the device from Valkyrie, or finally saw through Loki's latest betrayal attempt.

    Like usual with MCU films, they do a good job making almost all the characters likable.

    While I'm not the biggest Loki fan, he undeniably works very well in this film, the conniving sneak. He can be charismatic when need be (the scene where he cheers after Thor gets the Hulk Smash treatment made me grin)

    Valkyrie is what you get when you merge Sif and Jessica Jones, and she was a welcome addition to the cast. Glad that we'll be seeing more of her in Infinity War.

    It was interesting seeing a talking Hulk, but I hope we get to see him act a bit older later; Man-Child Hulk could get old. Ruffalo had fun as Banner, though. The scene where he jumps from the ship and then crashes to the ground reminded me of a similar scene from The Incredible Hulk.

    I really enjoyed Hela. A bit hammy at times, but she was fierce and came across as a deadly threat for sure. The scene where she took on that entire army by herself was epic, as was her brief showdown with Surtur.

    I was at first pretty disappointed with how quickly Surtur was defeated, but the climax made up for that.

    Unfortunately for Karl Urban, Skurge was one of the underdeveloped aspects. He was fine, but his big moment near the end didn't have the impact that it should have had.

    To round the characters out, nice to see Heimdall get some more action scenes, Goldblum was delightful in every scene he was in, and Doctor Strange seems to have already greatly improved his skills. He treated Loki like a novice. Hopkins got to give a dual performance as Odin; heavy for the emotional scenes, and some surprisingly humorous moments as Loki-disguised-as-Odin. Korg was also really amusing, even if one of his final jokes felt "too soon".

    The cinematography was striking. The CG was strong, and the sets were gorgeous. The film certainly has a distinct, eye-popping look that will please many sci-fi fans. The film managed to juggle being super funny and bad-a**. The two-hour plus runtime also really flies by.

    When Feige said this was a game-changer like Winter Soldier, he meant it. Asgard is destroyed, Odin is dead (for reals, unlike Nick Fury), Thor is now the king of his people, etc.

    Anyways, I had a blast with this one. It's surpassed Spider-Man Homecoming to become my favorite MCU film this year.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Freddy

    Freddy Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    66
    I don’t want to come off as attention seeking with this post, but I need to get this out of my system. I know I said that my initial feelings were mixed, but skewed towards positive, but more I think about this movie, more negative they become.

    Spoilers!

    I said in my original review that the movie doesn’t ruin any dramatic scenes with forced jokes and I still stand by that to a certain degree (although, I can understand, if someone disagrees), but the problem is that the movie isn’t dramatic enough in the first place. Thor loses his father, best friends, hammer and home, and I don’t feel a thing, because he doesn’t seem to feel a thing either and spends most of the movie practicing his stand-up routine. I can’t help, but to feel little perplexed about people criticizing Age of Ultron’s jokes for taking the edge out of serious scenes, but being fine with “devil’s anus” and other hilarious jokes in this movie. Sure, the obvious counterargument for that is “AoU was trying to be more serious movie, while Ragnarok is a full-blown comedy”, but my rebuttal for that is, why have serious moments at all then? If you are making farcical self-parody, which is constantly telling me that I shouldn’t take it seriously, why should I suddenly change my tune and be invested in the dramatic scenes?

    And while I appreciate the idea behind Mjolnir only channeling Thor’s true powers, it breaks down the minute you start to think about it. If the hammer had no actual powers, what was the point of the enchantment? It clearly says: "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor", but if the hammer is just a regular hammer, does it really matter who picks it up? I mean, if the hammer only channeled what was already there, doesn’t that mean that only Thor can have the power of Thor while using it?

    Another thing, could someone tell my why Loki came to the rescue during the climax? Last time we saw him, he tried to double-cross Thor, only to be left behind paralyzed by him. Not to mention, in previous scenes he kept talking about how he didn’t want to help Asgard or return there. So, why did he randomly showed to help, rather than used the opportunity to escape? Was there a scene missing or something?

    Also, two slightly nitpicky points:

    - If all the 9 realms are just regular planets (which I really dislike, since it makes them more generic), what makes them so special that their convergence can give someone with Aether the power to reshape the whole universe?
    - I’m worried that this movie will set a precedent for all the future movies completely make-up their own rules on how Doctor Strange’s magic works. While making Strange’s own movie, Scott Derrickson’s idea was that specific hand movements make spells happen, but in this movie Strange was often standing perfectly still while casting spells.

    I hate to say this, but this might be the first MCU movie I outright dislike. Sure, I don't think too highly of the two Iron Man sequels, but IM2 is just kinda your typical weak sequel and IM3 was at least ambitious (if the main villain was more interesting and some plot contrivences were ironed out, it could have been great). Ragnarok has its strong points and there are quite a few Marvel movies that I would rank lower (it is easily better than Fant4stic or Man-Thing, for example), but it is still IMHO a bad movie.
     
  10. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    21,258
    Likes Received:
    220
    Thor: Ragnorok

    Do I have this right? How is a movie about the destruction of Asgard and the literal apocalypse this much fun? I'm far from complaining, but this movie could have been a total bummer and I'm delighted that it wasn't.

    I hope Sif is somewhere and okay. I can live with the Warriors Three being killed. But Sif? I'm glad Jamie Alexander was too busy to come back for this one.

    Doctor Strange was a nice surprise, and he had a pretty big role for someone who wasn't billed in the end title main credits.

    I like that Loki is more than a little afraid of the Hulk. He is equally delighted when Hulk pwns Thor the exact way he pwned Loki in The Avengers.

    What I love about Thor and Hulk's relationship is that Thor is literally the first and only person to treat the Hulk as an actual guy. As empathetic as Black Widow and and Betty Ross were, Hulk was a condition to them that Banner had to live with. They didn't actually care about the being himself. Not really. Not deep down. If he was gone forever they'd be fine with that. But Thor treats Hulk as a friend and coworker and is actually a bit offended when Hulk starts to fight him. "I told these people we were friends!" is not what you say to a monster. It's what you say to a guy buddy. And I'm betting Thor DOES prefer Hulk to Banner. They have more in common.

    It amazes me what treating Hulk like a guy gets you. This isn't the Smart Hulk from Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, but even if he can't speak in full sentences, you can sit down and reason with him if you aren't a total jerk. And I kind of love that Hulk hasn't been zapped with a ray to get this way, the way Grey Hulk was created. He's probably always been this way and nobody besides Thor ever bothered to try and find out.

    Jeff Goldblum pretty much stole the movie as Grandmaster. The character is so loathsome in every other incarnation I've seen, that I'm a little alarmed at how much I personally love this totalitarian slave-holding fascist. He is so funny. Thor's reaction to seeing him melt his cousin with the melty stick was SO funny (he look legitimately terrified and let out a genuine scream of horror) and I like that Grandmaster's biggest beef is his cousin got all over his shoes. Similarly funny is when his second in command hands him the melty stick upon Loki interrupting him, and he's a bit annoyed that he actually has to explain interrupting him is not actually a melty stick level offense. I love that about the Grandmaster. And his tourism video is set to the melody of "Imagination" from "Willy Wonka And The Chocolate Factory". I don't know why that is, or how he ever got access to that tune, but it's hilarious, no matter the explanation.

    I am very happy that Thor saw Loki's betrayal coming. But to be honest, it annoyed me for another reason. I think less of Loki for believing Thor would actually buy it at this point. Loki seems stupider than usual to use a trademark trick he's done over and over again and expecting Thor to still be surprised by it.

    I'm betting the Hulk is hung. Not the nudity I wanted in a movie with Cate Blanchett and Tessa Thompson in it, but Thor's uncomfortability is worth it. Hulk in a hot tub is such a great concept. This is literally the first movie we've seen the character relaxing. It's long overdue.

    Speaking of which, "Please don't cut my hair!" Did we mention it was the end of the world?

    Thor slowly spinning around in the chains and wrecking Surta's bit at the beginning tells me that Thor is really good at annoying his enemies. It is something and he, Tony, and Spider-Man seem to have in common.

    Speaking of annoying, I can't believe Loki got away with Fauxdin as long as he did. Thor was right to see through it immediately. Why did no other Asgardians? When Loki is in that robe and watching a play dedicated to his own greatness, he almost seems to be screaming at his subjects "This is how stupid you all are! This is something you actually like!" He's New Brian singing the "I Like Farts" song to Peter Griffin. No subtle. And the chumps still don't get it.

    Matt Damon, Liam Hemsworth, and Sam Neill were great casting choices as the play actors.

    Love the Beta Ray Bill head bust on the side of the palace.

    I am super surprised (and frankly a bit unhappy) that Thor lost an eye. I think this movie was way too gory for a PG-13 movie. If the MPAA weren't totally corrupt, they would have handed the movie a proper R rating and been done with it.

    Korg was the second best character after Grandmaster. Very smart idea to play him like a character from "The Office", who treats Thor as a new coworker, and is sort of a nervous nebbish who picks at his rocks falling off his body. I love that he's happy his friend at the end wasn't dead, and Thor took that as the go-ahead to live on Earth. Do you know what that moment was? "Nuts to this! I'll just get Homer Simpson!"

    Based on how heavily featured Idris Elba was in the trailers (and he's billed fourth in the credits), I expected Heimdahl's role to be bigger. I understand why it wasn't, but I am entirely aware that Idris Elba is far too big a star to play that specific character. He is one of the main box office draws, but they can't exactly center the movie around him. It's a pickle.

    I think this might have been the biggest role we've gotten not only for the Hulk, but probably Mark Ruffalo as Banner too. I think only Edward Norton had more screentime in a Marvel movie. I like him pretty much pointing out that this planet was the last place a guy who was trying to stay calm should probably have wound up.

    I had been resisting Planet Hulk in the MCU for so long because the premise makes Tony Stark look like a total jerk. That's okay for Comic Tony (who is) but not so much Robert Downey Jr.'s lovable version. So instead, this movie makes him a non-factor in how Hulk got there. Did I mention I love the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

    One of Stan Lee's best cameos ever. He won't be around for too much longer, and I'm glad Marvel Studios is making these cameos count while we still have him.

    This is definitely the best Thor film. *****.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page

  • Find Toonzone on Facebook

  • Toonzone News

  • Site Updates

    Upcoming Premieres

  • Toonzone Fan Sites


Tac Anti Spam from Surrey Forum