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The Official "Wolverine & The X-Men" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Jan 9, 2008.

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  1. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
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    It's pretty hard to see her not having the Ms Marvel powers especially due to those being the ones she used the most for her first 20 years of comic and animated history. Well, for a guy like me anyways. I was pretty much out of the comic's loop by the time she lost them and I never watched XME when I was in college. The absorption powers were pretty much always just for desperate situations.

    It's a lot easier for me to live with it in the movies and cartoons though since we're dealing with a seperate canon and continuity from the comics. It's not as bad as if Wolverine were to lose any type of claw and basically become a ninja with a healing factor.
     
  2. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    Well one 90s animated series made over 15 years ago. Two if you count her, and the other X-men's, two episode guest spot in SMTAS.

    Just saying.
     
  3. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Member

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    No, I think she can still do that (after getting all the old memories wiped out, she absorbed Mystique's, to her disgust).
    Is there some reason that people whose main point of reference is the 90s show don't count as real fans?
     
  4. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    I think the problem was that fans took it as the gospel and were so offended about Rogue in the X-men movies when it was actually a very faithful, basic version of the character without the extra powers which didn't come until later for her in the comics.

    I mean even Marvel isn't that high on the 90's series anymore. Craig Kyle is not fond of the show, but believes its responsible for all the Marvel media we see today, that's the purpose it served.

    So to me, it's not that they don't count, but they definitely exaggerated their knowledge of the source material based on the cartoon and overreacted.

    Just that it's unfair to base your opinions on new cartoons and movies based off of one cartoon that's now rather dated.

    I think this new version of Rogue sort of acknowledges everything that came before in certain ways. There's elements of Rogue from the movies, comics, Rogue from TAS, and Rogue from Evolution in this show.
     
  5. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    Some episode titles have popped up online from a resume listing of one of the colorists for the show (here).

    Ep. 1 "Hindsight Pt. 1"
    Ep. 2 "Hindsight Pt. 2"
    Ep. 3 "Hindsight Pt. 3"
    Ep. 4 "Overflow"
    Ep. 7 "Wolverine Vs. The Hulk"
    Ep. 11 "Past Discretions"
    Ep. 13 "Battle Lines"
    Ep. 14 "Stolen Lives"
    Ep. 16 "Badlands"
    Ep. 19 "Guardian Angel"
    Ep. 22 "Aces & Eights"
    Ep. 23 "Shades of Grey"
    Ep. 25 "Foresight Pt. 2"

    Really looking forward to the YTV premiere next weekend. I am waiting for YTV.com to get more information up on the show!
     
  6. BigEclipse

    BigEclipse Member

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    Actually, in Rogue's first comic appearence, Avengers Annual #10, she took Ms. Marvel's powers. In fact, she took them and "killed" Carol Danvers in the first few pages. For many comic fans, Rogue's link to the powers stolen from Ms. Marvel are an indelible part of who she is. It's only in recent comic mythos that she has not had them. She even has them in the X-Men Legend video games. (Even in the alternate Age of Apocalypse storyline, she had some version of super strength and flight.)

    That all being said, I don't believe that those powers defined Rougue as a character, and I actually thought that Evo did the best job of portraying her as one.
     
    #486 BigEclipse, Aug 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2008
  7. thundarr82

    thundarr82 Member

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    While I liked Anna Paquin's performance as a more de-powered Rogue in Fox's X-Men Trilogy, The lack of her Ms Marvel flying abilities and superstrength in the new cartoon doesn't make sense to me, as she has had those extra powers ever since she was introduced in X-Men. It's too bad that the Fox Kid's X-Men is not available on dvd, to see the best version of Marvel's Rogue. While it doesn't affect my interest in Wolverine And The X-Men, the now weaker Rogue joins Emma Frost as the less interesting characters in WATXM.
     
  8. Silverstar

    Silverstar Rock the Dragon

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    But Rogue doesn't have the Ms. Marvel powers currently, and hasn't had them for a while now, hence why she doesn't have them here. This series is more concurrent with the present-day X-Men, not the 90's version. It would be like if someone did a new Fantastic Four series and their version of Sue Richards didn't have her ability to make force fields, just the power to turn invisible, since that was her only power when she was first introduced. It would just look dated now.

    Also, this is just an opinion, but I didn't really like the movie version of Rogue. Not because she didn't have her Ms. Marvel powers, but because she was portrayed as such a helpless weakling that she couldn't even step outside of the mansion to get the morning paper without being set upon and used as bait by some supervillain. I get that Rogue was the 'green rookie' in the movie universe, but she could have been a little tougher and more able to hold her own in battle; the other 'Mutant High' kids like Iceman and Pyro were.

    Though I feel she was highly overrated by a fraction of the fans and a tad overused by the shows' writers, I actually feel that X-Men: Evolution's portrayal of Rogue was probably the best interpretation of the character without the Ms. Marvel package (so far).
     
    #488 Silverstar, Aug 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2008
  9. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    But all that really means is she stole powers she never had originally as a mutant. The absorbing powers are her mutant powers. And the Ms. Marvel powers are from nearly absorbing a person halfway to death.

    As pointed out she has also not had these powers in the comics for years.

    Other thing, why do people always say Rougue or Rouge?

    The obvious evolution for Rogue in the movies, what it should've obviously been would've been Rogue trying to absorb the Phoenix powers from Jean in X-men 3.
     
  10. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    Those images are awesome. This show is like our wishes and dreams come true.
     
  11. thundarr82

    thundarr82 Member

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    The Official "Wolverine & The X-Men" News & Discussion Thread, Part

    Silverstar, I would never de-power a character as is being done with Rogue in Wolverine And The X-Men. She is one of the strongest X-Men, and what the creators of the show are doing is making her a weaker hero than she was. I think it was a mistake to de-power the comics Rogue as well. To me if the character has to be drastically changed, then the character should be replaced with another one.

    I am very excited about the series, despite the changes in Rogue.
     
  12. Ian

    Ian ¬°Mierda santa! ¬°Ninjas!

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    How is she less powerful? Evo Rogue had didn't have them, and was still one of the most useful and powerful members--let's not forget, she took down the X-Men, Brotherhood, and Acolytes all by herself (while mind-controlled, but the point still stands). All Ms. Marvel's powers ever did was assure that she rarely used her actual ones. They're extraneous--overkill.

    Let's face facts. Every X-Men adaptation since 2000--the movies, Evo, W&tX-M, and the Ultimate line, all who have a bigger audience than the comic books have enjoyed in the past 20 years--have had Rogue without Ms. Marvel powers. She has not had those powers in the comics proper since 2002--more than five years ago. Why is this?

    1. They require unnecesary backstory and explanation.
    2. They require the introduction of D-lister Ms. Marvel, a character otherwise unrelated to the X-Men.
    3. It unbalances the power scale. She's superstrong, supertough, can fly, and can steal powers requiring equally ridiculous antagonists.
    4. It takes away from the magnitude of her actual power. Sure, using her powers comes with consequences; what does it matter if she never actually has to use them?
     
  13. B-kun

    B-kun Fear the cat-eared dog demon

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    Carol? D-List? From a strictly X-Men standpoint, maybe, but she's in the Avengers. That makes her B-list at worst by default. And personally, I've always liked Rogue with just her absorbing powers. The superstrength has always been overkill. I don't mind the flying so much, though. X-Men is currently lacking in flyers last I saw (Jean dead and Storm off in Wakanda. I might be a tad outdated, but eh)

    And has been pointed out, Rogue hasn't had Ms. Mavel's powers in literal years. Both in real life and comics, going by the occasional timeskip, and she hasn't had them in several recent incarnation. Wolvie and those Other Peeps is nothing new.
     
  14. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    I'd argue that Rogue having Ms Marvel's powers actually "de-powered" her because she can actually be way more powerful than that.

    I believe in RPG terms she's shifted from being a Heavy to being a Rogue. It allows her character to expand more and do more in fights than just "I fly up and punch it." (Also yes I did just make that geeky joke just because I could. :D)
     
  15. thundarr82

    thundarr82 Member

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    The Official "Wolverine & The X-Men" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2

    Ian, Rogue being able to fly requires no explanation. It is like any flying superhero, she or he can fly. I like the ridiculously powered Rogue as well as the supervillains she has to fight. I would rather she lost the ability to absorb other powers if she had to lose something. Also, I have not watched X-Men Evolution because of all the changes to X-Men, but I did read the Ultimate X-Men and I did not like those comics.
     
  16. Windrider

    Windrider Member

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    I am going to break up this argument and point out the episodes. Presuming they are correct has anyone noticed the episode Shades of GREY as in jean grey! So maybe she does come back.




    or maybe its me going paranoid:shrug:
     
  17. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    Could be, or just that they spell grey, grey.

     
  18. Silverstar

    Silverstar Rock the Dragon

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    It's not really 'de-powering' if you think about it; sure, in this form Rogue doesn't have any overt powers beyond her natural mutant power, but when you can render people unconscious and/or in a coma and temporarily gain their powers (if they have any) just by touching them, you don't really need a whole bunch of other powers. Rogue with the Ms. Marvel pack and the power-stealing on top of that crosses over into Mary Sue territory in a way. If you have one set, you don't really need the other.

    Actually, Rogue's being able to fly does require explanation, since flying isn't part of her natural mutant power; it's just an ability she acquired from siphoning nearly all of the life force from Carol Danvers. If Rogue had absorbed Alex Summers' powers in her first appaearance, then she'd have Havok's abilities, which don't include flight. It all ties back to the absorption, which is her mutant power to start with. Without that, Rogue wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff.

    And it's funny: for a long time, I used to think exactly like you are now; that if Rogue should lose a power, it should be the absorption. But if she just had the super-strength, flight and invulnerability, she'd just be a clone of Carol Danvers, who isn't a mutant. While it wouldn't be impossible to classify the Ms. Marvel abilities as a mutant power, it would be kind of a stretch unless she was part alien or something.

    I'm a fan of Ms. Marvel, but Rogue doesn't need to be Ms. Marvel; she's got her own thing.
     
    #498 Silverstar, Aug 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2008
  19. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter O Frabjous Day!

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    About the Ms. Marvel/X-Men thing: Didn't Ms. Marvel become Binary at one point and join the X-Men? So she isn't entirely unrelated to them.
     
  20. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    I think one thing you guys will like about this show is that its going to be very storyline heavy. The first 26 episodes will start with a three parter and end with a three parter. And it looks like one big storyline for one season. So fans of continuity won't have much room to complain.
     
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