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The Official "The Dark Knight" News & Discussion Thread, Part 4 (Possible Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, Dec 14, 2007.

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  1. dc_gothamite

    dc_gothamite dead is dead

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    on the topic of including Robin in the Nolan series, I don't think it would be a good move. Aesthetically, people will already belittle the concept and the reimagined Dark Knight will once again fall prey to derision.

    however, if Nolan and co. WERE to tackle the character (specifically, Dick Grayson), he would have to be substantially older; 16 to 18 years as BatKid suggested. Nolan & co. have crafted a reality-based version of Batman. Having a child tag along with this version would be completely absurd and questionable at best. At least by having Grayson being a high-school senior, or even a college student lends some plausibility (and acceptability, for that matter)

    but personally, if Robin were to be included in some aspect, I would like his introduction to be the conclusion of Nolan's film series. Perhaps, some time in the third movie, Bruce Wayne witnesses Dick Grayson's tragedy. Then at the very end of the movie, we have the classic candle-lit oath. I don't want to see Dick Grayson in action as Robin. Rather, I'd like to see Bruce Wayne become his mentor towards the end of this trilogy. Bruce's search for a father figure was one of the most defining aspects of Begins, and will supposedly continue with The Dark Knight. To see him become a father figure himself would completely round out his character-arc in Nolan's series. At this point, Batman would already have "Begun" and moved on to the next stage of his crime-fighting career.

    I dunno... that's just my opinion... heh :ack:
     
  2. Desensitized

    Desensitized Old School!

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    THAT'S what I'm talking about. THAT's what I mean by having Dick Grayson and no Robin. THAT would work really well.

    Dick Grayson would be far more important than Robin would ever be in this trilogy.
     
  3. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    so they can include him and get away with it. as i said, robin is important to the batman mythos and they should at least acknowledge grayson's existence in the universe. grayson's story should be the side story in batman 3. if they don't want to do that, then maybe in the 3rd batman film bruce goes to haley's circus and witnesses the accident and the film ends. we know that's robin. if we want to know what happens next, all we have to do is pick up a comic book. or maybe they can acknowlege him even more subtly. i'll be pleased if they intentionally do a subtle reference, they'll have to some how bring robin/dick in a future film after making such an important reference.

    i'll admit the sight of seeing a 10-14 year old as robin along side batman doesn't sound to pleasing, but that's why it should focus on dick grayson. they might be skeptical of introducing robin because it might be to big of a risk. the risk isn't as high if they introduce dick grayson and focus only on dick grayson. if grayson gets a side story in batman 3, what better way to end the film than this:

    [​IMG]

    focusing on dick grayson and not robin would also help nolan to some extent. whenever he would be asked "why did you put robin in the film?" he could simply reply "we didn't put robin in the film, we put dick grayson in the film." hopefully such comment would help people accept the film and not dismiss it simply because "it has robin.".
     
  4. Aldrius

    Aldrius Arrogant Instigator

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    What's wrong with Robin?

    I've never really seen the character used effectively, but that doesn't mean that there aren't effective ways to use the character.

    A lot of the knee jerk reaction has to do with the fact that he's a child, and there are a LOT of writers out there who can't write children. Because they're adults.
     
  5. Soul

    Soul Mainly Lurking Now...

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    The ultimate thing on the subject of Robin in Nolan's universe is, sure go ahead and acknowledge his existance, but he must still actually be a boy and it'll be more or less 5 to 8 years in Nolan's world before the Grayson Tragedy.
     
  6. Robin2099

    Robin2099 Active Member

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    See you've already perfectly explained why adapting Robin is so hard. The whole point was that Bruce saw himself in Dick as both were extremely young when their parents were murdered. The whole point was that he saw a little boy who needed guidance just like he needed from Alfred so he decided to adopt him. If you make him older that point is lessened a great deal and that's really the foundation of their relationship. So if you make him sixteen years old, why would Bruce have a bond with him? By the same exact token, if you make him eighteen, he's old enough to be an adult so what reasoning would he have for wanting to stay with Bruce? Unless you want another motorcycle like scenario as seen in Batman Forever.

    You mean like how one of his sidekicks was killed off, and one despite being legally adopted by him barely(if ever) appeared with him? He may still have a Robin, but it's not like it was up until the 70's when Robin was always with him.
     
  7. BonyT

    BonyT Sisyphus in Hell

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    I don't think the hesitation to use Robin really stems so much from the fact that they don't think they can write adequately for a child character.

    In his earliest incarnation, Batman was very much the strong silent type; as a result, Kane and Finger soon started to find it difficult to fill dialogue bubbles. Robin was originally created (rather reluctantly by Kane) for twin purposes: The real driving impetus was a directive from DC to expand readership, the idea being to try to draw in younger readers by giving kids a hero their own age to identify with; and then as a somewhat ancillary lemonade-from-lemons funtion, Kane was able to make use of the new sidekick frankly as someone Batman was forced to talk to. Additionally, Robin's real literary value emerged from his ability to serve as a foil for Batman: Where Bats was dark and brooding, a monster of the night, Robin was a typical bubbly, energetic child bounding about in a pixie-like costume drawn in bright, primary colors; where Batman was mature and experienced, a potent fighting machine executing his strikes with planned precision, Robin was very young, unpolished and, as Frank Miller put it in DKR, much more of a "monkey wrench" thrown in the works in combat situations. And in that relatively high-contrast role vis-a-vis Batman, Robin did add genuine texture as a literary device.

    Alas, those were different times; and yet, even in a "simpler" age, problems arose soon enough, as a crusading politician leveled the charge that Batman comics depicted a "homosexual/pedophile" fantasy -- which utterly horrified Kane, who had not forseen such a perception, and indeed had specifically chosen a boy sidekick to avoid any notions of impropriety that might come with a girl Robin.

    In a nutshell, the perceived problem with using Robin in our times is this: He's seen as even more of a Catch-22 today than when he first brought trouble for Kane. If you have a young Robin, then modern sensibilities are less able to overlook the reckless child endangerment that would represent on Bruce's part (at least in live action -- although less so in animation); and this dilemma is arguably heightened even more for Nolan & co., since they do strive for greater grounding in reality. But when you try to mitigate this with measures like having Dick Grayson be at least 18 (as well as giving him a more masculine, darker costume) then Robin's original literary reason for being, his role as a contrasting foil to Batman (very young vs. mature, bright and bubbly vs. dark and brooding, etc.) gets almost completely neutered. There's no longer much real contrast between the two characters; Robin becomes simply a paler shadow of Batman himself, a clone slightly faded in the replication process --- he's Batman Lite. And if that's all he's gonna be, then what's the point, really?

    Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying there's no good way to use the Robin character today, or suggesting that the character is useless. Even if he can no longer be as effective a foil for Batman, he can still serve the role of drawing out Bruce's fatherly/mentoring instincts, thus adding somewhat humanizing "softer" layers to an otherwise pretty uniformly hard-textured character. I'm just pointing out some of what lies behind the hesitation to make use of Robin today.
     
  8. BatKid

    BatKid The True Batman

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    Click for HQ:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  9. danman007

    danman007 Member

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  10. Cortez2301

    Cortez2301 Active Member

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  11. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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  12. Aldrius

    Aldrius Arrogant Instigator

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    What's he referring to?

    The old "What do you think Batman?...Batman?" thing that happened so often in BTAS?
     
  13. BatKid

    BatKid The True Batman

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    The official links are now up, no more bootleg. You can watch the two spots here and here.
     
  14. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    Actually this thing happens often in comics. BTAS only translated that situation to the cartoon. And yes, I think Gordon is referring to it.
     
  15. Cortez2301

    Cortez2301 Active Member

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    Its pretty cool that we got to see Two Face in the trailer or at least half of him.Is that picture thats been floating around official or fan made? It looks kind of fake to me, as he looks more alien-like.
     
  16. Hanshotfirst1138

    Hanshotfirst1138 Singing drunken lullabies

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    I believe that that's from The Long Halloween, among other things.

    "The Lamborghini then. (under his breath) Much more subtle."

    God I love Michael Caine, I really, really do :D.
     
  17. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight

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    I love the two new tv spots can't wait to see more .
     
  18. DarkAngel

    DarkAngel Lord Vader

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Cortez2301

    Cortez2301 Active Member

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  20. thedanmachine

    thedanmachine gomu gomu no custom title

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