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The Greatest Historical Figure Ever/Up To This Point!

Discussion in 'Fun & Games' started by Superpan, May 9, 2010.

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  1. Superpan

    Superpan Member

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    In the annals of human history, billions of human beings have walked on this planet. Yet, in the sands of time, which of us has become the most admired, the nicest, most important, most successful, or all around greatest person ever born? Well, we can’t really determine this. However, a group of people on an internet forum, with no official credentials will try. This is a contest for The Greatest Historical Figure Ever!

    Rules

    • I’m mainly following the Cartoon’s example of running a greatest thread.
    • I’m placing the Wikipedia article under each person so that no one is voted out for being obscure.
    • Please treat all historical personages who were not psychotic murderers with respect. Most military generals are not this.
    I also replaced Carlos Marcello with Frank Sinatra, so for all you Kennedy-conspiracy buffs, I apologize.

    ROUND 1


    ROUND 2!


    Round 3





    ROUND 4!


    Round 5!

    Round 6
    In our first match….




    …the Objectivist and reclusive comic book creator…
    [​IMG]
    Stephen Ditko
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ditko

    …The famous pop musician that helped define a generation…
    [​IMG]
    Paul McCartney
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_McCartney


    … the controversial civil rights activist…
    [​IMG]
    Malcolm X (Malcolm Little)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X


    …and the famed philosopher of ancient times.
    [​IMG]
    Aristotle
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle

    In our second match, there appears…


    …one of the famed sportsmen of our time…
    [​IMG]
    Michael Jordan
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan

    …the person whose monument is still not done…
    [​IMG]
    Crazy Horse
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Horse

    … a military genius…
    [​IMG]
    George Patton
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Patton

    …and a German who was more popular in Russia and China.
    [​IMG]
    Karl Marx
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx


    Steve Ditko
    Paul McCartney
    Malcolm X
    Artistotle

    Michael Jordan
    Crazy Horse
    George Patton
    Karl Marx

    1. Aristotle- One of the most influential Western thinkers of all time.
    2. Steve Ditko- I love Spider-Man and the Green Goblin.
    3. Paul McCartney- I want to see the four Beatles face off.
    4. Malcolm X- I'm more of an MLK guy myself.

    1. George Patton- One of the great military leaders.
    2. Crazy Horse- A great Native American leader.
    3. Michael Jordan- An idol when I was small.
    4. Karl Marx- I'm more of a democracy guy.


     
    #1 Superpan, May 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2010
  2. cradleman

    cradleman Member

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    okay, so i will be doing this part based off preferences, part based off of historical prominence.

    1. Aristotle: one of the foremost thinkers of all time. granted, a LOT of his theories were later proven wrong but at least he tried.
    2. Steve Ditko: conspired with Stan Lee to create the most popular current superhero, Spider-Man.
    3. Malcom X: very controversial, and his death created quite a stir
    4. Paul McCartney: yes he was influential in Rock and Roll, but that isn't quite the same as being influential in civil rights.

    1. George S. Patton: one of the greatest generals of all time
    2. Crazy Horse: one very cool Indian
    3. Jordan: yes, he's a great basketball player but i hate his guts
    4. Marx: not only was he a lazy bum, he came up with probably the worst form of oppressive government in the history of the world. neither of those things working in his favor.
     
  3. jph139

    jph139 Immortal

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    Match 1!
    1. Malcolm X ~ I love me some passionate orators. Was the whole "separation of the races" thing kinda extreme? Yeah. But, MAN, he certainly convinced me. Of course, as a middle class white guy, I don't think I was quite the audience... but... still!
    2. Aristotle ~ Guy was a PHYSICIST. In the HELLENISTIC ERA. Amazing, really.
    3. Paul McCartney ~ Probably my favorite Beatle, but, well, he ain't no Greek philosopher.
    4. Steve Ditko ~ I respect the guy's work and all, and superheroes as a major literary force, but... not quite a "historical figure," really.
    Match 2!
    1. Crazy Horse ~ My favorite Sioux! Such an ardent leader for his people. I mean, not a single photograph exists of him, because they never caught him, they never got to his body, and he never, ever wanted one to exist. Now THAT is something.
    2. Karl Marx ~ While the whole "violent revolution of the proletariat" - while really badass - is a pretty weak stance nowadays, the guy was a pioneer of workers' rights. Considering how horrible conditions were during the period (do I need to point you toward The Jungle?), that's something to get behind.
    3. George S. Patton ~ I'm a big fan, actually. Very interesting character, with some great insight into future Soviet-American relations. Of course he was also pretty horribly racist.

      "The difficulty in understanding the Russians is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European, but an Asiatic, and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinaman or a Japanese, and from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them, except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian have no regard for human life and is an all out son of -, barbarian, and chronic drunk."

      Like, during the 1800s, I can buy that. But during WWII? Docks him some major points for me.
    4. Michael Jordan ~ Is he cool? Sure. Is he a great historical figure? Naaaaaht really.
     
  4. SpideyFan914

    SpideyFan914 Greatest Poster Ever!

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    1. Malcolm X (Though I'm more of an MLK fan myself, I have to give this guy the credit he deserves.)
    2. Aristotle (Big thinker, though he tends to think incorrectly....)
    3. Steve Ditko (Co-creator of Spider-Man, but not as much historic influence as Stan Lee. He'd be in 1st if I was certain he deserved to be in the contest....)
    4. Paul McCartney (I have respect for The Beatles, but he's got some competition here....)

    1. Karl Marx (My badminton partner!)
    2. Crazy Horse (Just hearing about now for the first time, but I love the Native Americans. They should've kept this land - it's unfortunate we killed them all....)
    3. Michael Jordan (First black basketball player, but I'm not a fan of basketball....)
    4. George S. Patton (Judging from the above quote, I hate his guts already.)
     
  5. Superpan

    Superpan Member

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    I'm considering that quote in my future voting, but I do find it interesting that threatening to kill his soldiers if they lag behind is okay, but virulent racisim that was unfortunately common for his time is what devalues him so? I'm not endorsing those disgusting views, but I find it interesting in studies of human history how many people are much more forgiving of killing than other cultural things.
     
    #5 Superpan, May 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2010
  6. The Huntsman

    The Huntsman Friend of Toon Zone

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    1 Aristotle
    2 Malcolm X
    3 Paul McCartney
    4 Steve Ditko

    1 Crazy Horse
    2 George Patton
    3 Karl Marx
    4 Michael Jordan
     
  7. The Cartoon

    The Cartoon Moderator

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    1. Paul McCartney (A personal hero of mine, as all of the Beatles are)
    2. Malcom X (One of the most influential people ever. I respect him greatly)
    3. Aristotle (Very influential)
    4. Steve Ditko (Just not quite up to par)

    1. Crazy Horse (Very important and brave, easily deserves to move to Round 2)
    2. Michael Jordan (The greatest basketball player ever)
    3. Karl Marx (Created communism I believe. Not a fan)
    4. George Patton (Also not a fan, and a bigger threat)
     
  8. SpideyFan914

    SpideyFan914 Greatest Poster Ever!

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    Oh, really? Well then, I hate him even more. Seriously, why are people voting for this guy?
     
  9. jph139

    jph139 Immortal

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    Frankly, I rather respect his entire military discipline. My favorite event - he goes to a military hospital and he finds a kid who had a mental breakdown there. Rather than commend him, like he did everyone else in the room, he slaps the kid around and tells him to get back on the frontlines.

    He's unfair and cruel and one of the greatest military heroes in recent history. One of the people who really reveled in warfare. People like that are worthy of respect, I think. Or maybe pity. All depends on your point of view.
     
  10. The Cartoon

    The Cartoon Moderator

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    I hardly consider that heroic. It disgusts me actually. I do respect that he was a great historical figure, but I really don't care. I can't stand the guy.
     
  11. cradleman

    cradleman Member

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    Patton was an A**hole through and through, but he was a damned good general. His morals were generally low, but he was such a great military strategist, and he loved his job so much that he was quite possibly the greatest general in WWII, and that is a group that includes Eisenhower and MacArthur. I will never be a fan of his character, but he stood up for what he believed and he's the main reason we won the war against Germany. that is why I voted for him. and for those voting Karl Marx over Patton, please. at least Patton was willing to do something, Marx never had a steady honest job in his life. he was a lazy bum who wanted everything for nothing. and his quote "religion is the opiate of the masses" sure won't win him any awards from me.
     
  12. Superpan

    Superpan Member

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    Before this gets out of hand, I just want to remind everyone to treat people with respect. With few exceptions, (basically any dictator with a mustache) I wouldn't call anyone on the list a complete monster and they should be treated with respect, unless you have legitimate evidence that they beat up your great-grandfather after insulting your mother. Otherwise, be careful what you post.
     
  13. jph139

    jph139 Immortal

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    ...well, he was a political writer all his life. I can't say it's an honest job, but it's certainly a job.

    Now, communism DID eventually absorb aspects of a welfare state, but don't equate his desire for workers' rights with anything like that. This is a time period where people had to send their children to stand knee-deep in ice cold mud all day to open and close a door for a donkey in a coal mine without breaks and without food just so that the family could survive. And they couldn't do anything to change that because capitalists controlled the government. The only way to get a fair shake was violent revolution.

    Now, modern communism you can argue against - we've come a long way in workers' rights - but you can't apply modern ideals to the era.

    ...of course, I get the feeling this could get REALLY political, so, we should probably take care to tread lightly. Do our best to stick purely to historical fact and such without argument. Play nice and all.
     
  14. cradleman

    cradleman Member

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    I completely disagree. but this will get WAY political so I will refrain. just know that i cannot respect a man who is more concerned with writing down his (imo, wrong) ideas than supporting his family. my opinion.
     
  15. SpideyFan914

    SpideyFan914 Greatest Poster Ever!

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    Well, in my opinion, Karl Marx was one of the wisest philosophers around. The fact that communism doesn't work out is actually quite sad. But I don't blame people for that - I blame society and evil dictators.
    Patton, on the other hand, sounds like nothing more than a bully and a coward. Granted, I have no idea what he's done that people seem to consider good. Of course, I probably wouldn't care anyway, since I absolutely despise war with a burning passion.

    And by the way - this thread is titled "Greatest Historical Figure Ever!" It is going to get political....
     
  16. JAG

    JAG Active Member

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    George Patton: His morality issues aside, the guy did play a large role in saving the world from Nazis. That has to count for something, doesn't it?
    Crazy Horse
    Karl Marx
    Micheal Jordan
     
  17. Superpan

    Superpan Member

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    I'll update later tonight to see if anyone else wants to post, but for future rounds, I become easily bored and so may update after everyone who has voted in this first round has voted. Otherwise, it will be somewhere between 10 PM-12 PM. Here are the results so far for round 1.

    Steve Ditko- 5
    Paul McCartney-5
    Malcolm X- 11
    Aristotle- 14

    Michael Jordan- 5
    Crazy Horse- 17
    George Patton-12
    Karl Marx- 8

    So far, we've learned that Patton's winning despite being hated, you can be a great scientist while still being wrong, and that you cannot live down being the creator of communism. Also, Crazy Horse is awesome.

    Also to whether or not this thread should be political, I have no problem with those discussions as long as they don't offend an historical figure (except Hitler, Stalin, etc.). Just make sure its dignified.

    Now based on some comments this round, I'm off to write a speech on why Walt Disney should move on to round 2.
     
    #17 Superpan, May 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2010
  18. SpideyFan914

    SpideyFan914 Greatest Poster Ever!

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    Why wouldn't Walt Disney move on? Does he have tough competition?
     
  19. Superpan

    Superpan Member

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    Well, he's up against Benjamin Franklin and Jesse James though I think he can beat the latter. Its just if Paul McCartney is voted out in round 1 for being historically insignificant and Walt was taken out pretty early in greatest character, so this makes me worried.
     
  20. SpideyFan914

    SpideyFan914 Greatest Poster Ever!

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    Eh.... I'd vote him over both of those guys.... And Paul McCartney wasn't voted out for being historically insignificant - he was voted out for having tough competition! Just wait'll John Lennon goes....
     
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