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"The Flash (2014)" Season Two Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by The Penguin, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    It's kind of sad that upbeat, optimistic, and confident Barry is treated as a bad thing. It was actually kind of nice seeing him facing what was going on with optimism and not being held back by doubts or insecurities after his experience with the Speed Force. I hope we don't see a total regression of that with Henry's death :(.

    Y'know, aside from being evil and willing to kill a lot of people by destroying buildings, Black Siren felt a little more like Black Canary then Laurel ever did. I mean, for one, she had an actual Canary Cry that looked a heck of a lot better then Laurel just doing a screaming pose and glass just breaks. She even got to kick The Flash's but. And that costume looked a lot better then the bondage gear Laurel was sporting. I was half-expecting her to say she goes by Dinah instead of Laurel ;).

    I kinda wish the show hadn't made her out to be such a bad guy so we could maybe develop her into a real Black Canary, but there doesnt' seem to be much hope of that happening. I genuinely hope this isn't the last we see of Katie Cassidy in the Arrowverse, though I know Laurel will be in season 2. Feels like a shame to have her go out after that stupid death on Arrow and after playing an evil doppleganger, though at least she did both to the best of her ability :cool:.

    I liked Flash and Wally's dynamic. They had some fun back-and-forth in this episode. Looking forward to seeing how that progresses now that Wally's realized Barry is The Flash and he's well on his way to becoming Kid Flash :D.

    Even Tina McGee managed to figure out Barry was The Flash? And she's only seen him sporadically over the course of two seasons. It's no wonder Thawne managed to eventually find out Barry's identity, I'm only surprised it didn't happen sooner (relative to Thawne's time I guess). I wouldn't even be surprised if Singh knows at this point :rolleyes:.

    It was great to see John Wesley Shipp reunite with Amanda Pays as Henry and Tina meet. That was a really nice call-back to the old Flash show, and sparks are still flying between these two. Shame it won't be going anywhere :sad:.

    It was also nice to see how comfortable Harry has grown with Team Flash, helping to comfort Caitlin and even being a little jovial and jokey around everyone. He's really come a long way with the group :anime:.

    And Cisco, if only by accident, finally manages to use his powers offensively like Reverb did. He's well on his way to becoming the real Vibe now :proud:.

    So they're going to be holding all the Earth-2 Metahumans on Earth-1 for now, in Iron Heights and the Pipeline? Are they going to transfer them all back to Earth-2 once this is all over? I did get a good chuckle at Singh just not wanting to know anything about the Pipeline and Earth-2, given how oblivious he's been to all that since day one :p.

    Just like comic Hunter, Zoom here is just as obsessed with the idea of tragedy defining you and who you are, only here it's applied to making him and Barry the same rather then an obsession with changing Wally's origin to make him a better hero like in the comics :ack:.
     
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  2. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    Where are the Earth 2 superheroes? Is Earth 2 the Golden Age era Earth we all know and love, or is Earth 2 really Earth 3 the evil counterpart alternate earth?
     
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  3. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
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    It seems a lot more like the evil counterpart Earth, especially with Zoom pretty much ruling sort of like the Crime Syndicate do. I wonder which Arrowverse villain or civilian could be a hero in that world.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk.
     
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  4. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's starting to resemble Earth-3 instead of Earth-2. Seems as though Team Berlanti got their alternate earths mixed up. Which, judging by the gradually deteriorating quality of writing of late, would be par for the course.
     
  5. webmonkey44

    webmonkey44 Member

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    i agree the writing quality has dropped in some ways. the entire romance arc between barry and iris is overwrought. they seem insistent on traumatizing barry any time he's happy when it isnt required. (it reminds of the time master conspiracy in legends of tomorrow a bit due to being highly unnecessary) The main issue i have is they have made it abundantly clear the wall west flash and jessie quick are happening but are repeatedly dragging their feet about it. similarly hunter zolomon defeat being delayed again when he was clearly being defeated feels like a way of stretching to plot and blocking the characters from succeeding to get a couple more episodes.
    that said i still enjoy it.
     
  6. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    This is why I'm suggesting that instead of continuing with season-long, slow-paced story arcs, the producers and writers need to create shorter arcs, no more than 8-10 episodes each, which would make more sense in the long term.

    They write for the casual fan who hasn't read a comic book, and doesn't know the histories of the characters. That's also why they flipped the West family from white to African American, FWIW. While The Flash is still the better written of the 4 Berlanti-verse shows, it also suffers from repetition of plot, since this entire season, right down to the reveal of Hunter Zolomon posing as Jay Garrick, was a carbon copy of season 1. Did they really need to do that? No. They did it because they thought, hey, it worked, let's do it again. As an old teacher of mine often said, "stupidity runs rampant". It certainly does in Hollywood.
     
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  7. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    "The Race of His Life" Season Finale May 24, 2016

    Season finale! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    [​IMG]
    "The Race of His Life" - Season Finale
    Tuesday, May 24, 2016 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    After Zoom reveals his true plan, Barry vows to do whatever it takes to stop him.
     
  8. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I think we knew going in that Zoom was going to be killed off. And some of us had guessed that the "real" Jay Garrick was under the iron mask. Rather than have Teddy Sears essay the dual role, they went with the plot twist established previously by having J. W. Shipp as Jay, since Jay was the analogue for Henry. I guess someone wanted to see Shipp in a Flash uni again.

    However, while we all expected the debuts of Jesse Quick and Kid Flash before the end of the season, we got neither, and we're not sure if Jessie will be back next season. Creative brain fart? I think so. Another reason why I am tired of the season-long storylines, because they're all flawed. We could see Wally power up next season, but right now, I can't trust them to carry that through.
     
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  9. Magmaster12

    Magmaster12 Well-Known Member

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    As a whole this season was not an improvement over last years continued terrible, pointless drama, more poorly developed villains and same old repetitive plot lines. Worst of all this show just lacks in substance way to much, if you take away the super powers from this show there is seriously not a whole lot to enjoy. Because of that I'm giving season 2 a 5.6/10.
     
  10. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    God dang it Barry, you've finally caused Flashpoint :mad:.

    I guess I can understand with how broken Barry felt after losing his dad, the only parent and blood relative he had left, and the shock of seeing his AU doppelganger alive and well and just up and leave with Wells and Jessie, that he'd take the chance on doing what he regretted doing in season one and save his mom by stopping the Reverse-Flash. He's so tired of losing people he loves and having his family taken from him that he's going to prevent it all from happening by saving his mom and correcting the timeline. The only problem is that, if the show holds true to the comics, saving Nora is going to create a decidedly worse timeline :eek:.

    That said, it was very satisfying seeing Barry punch-out Reverse-Flash like that :cool:.

    I wonder what Flashpoint is going to look like on the show? Citizen Cold? Robert Queen as The Green Arrow? Other darker counterparts to our traditional heroes like in the comics? I'd be shocked if Thawne doesn't come back as a result :ack:.

    So unless the show intends to do away with all the character development, relationship building, character dynamics, and everything else it's been building-up throughout the entire series (like Cisco becoming Vibe), Barry is obviously going to go back and stop himself from saving Nora at some point next season once he realizes how badly he messed things up. And I wonder if that's going to reboot the Arrowverse to a degree so that Supergirl's universe is fused with Earth-1? I also wonder what it might mean for the other Earths o_O?

    I think we finally got to see just how much stronger and faster Barry's become after his experience in the Speed Force. Not only did he clean up villains left and right in the last episode, but here he was pretty much beating the tar out of Zoom for both their initial and final fight, the same Zoom who'd always had an edge over him the entire season and had double the speed since their last encounter, and decisively beat him, but he also managed to be precise enough in his time traveling to instantly create a functioning Time Remnant like Zoom does to help him stop the Magnatron. Then at the end he just runs into the past without much difficulty. I think Barry is now, for once, the definitive Fastest Man Alive :D!

    I guess Team Flash locking Barry up could be seen as an acknowledgement of all the bad decisions he's made this season...if not for the fact that ultimately Barry ended up doing, and succeeding, and what he ultimately intended to do from the very beginning :sweat:.

    Wally gets sidekick points for breaking Barry out of the Pipeline and supporting him fighting Zoom. I really can't wait to see their relationship get further explored in season 3, and Wally eventually becoming Kid Flash. He's already pretty much apart of Team Flash now :).

    Barry counting on the Time Wraiths coming in after he used time travel to take care of Zoom was a risky gamble, but it really payed off, and it was satisfying to see Zoom battered, beaten, and sucked up by the Time Wraiths. It'll definitely be interesting to see if this results in Hunter becoming Black Flash in the future, especially given how much his costume has resembled the Black Flash suit from the very beginning :evil:.

    Though Barry not killing Zolomon because he's a hero feels kinda hollow after what happened with Atom-Smasher, Sand Demon, and even Griffin Grey. Even Ollie's a little more consistent in his no-kill code :rolleyes:.

    But that was pretty hardcore of Barry to bascially commit suicide in a way by having his past self sacrifice himself to stop the Magnatron.

    Of course Barry and Iris can't finally be together, because CW. At least it was nice to see Iris swearing she would wait for Barry like he waited for her all this time, and their confessing their love to each other and kissing was a nice way to end the season. Until Barry went back in time and ruined it. Hopefully once he sets the timeline back to normal it won't mess things up with Iris, but knowing the Arrowverse shows like I do, I wouldn't be surprised if it does somehow :rolleyes2:.

    It was great to get the reveal that the man in the iron mask really was the real Jay Garrick, and that he's played by none other then John Wesley Shipp. Now the original Flash is playing the original Flash. Though I wasn't crazy about the suit compared to Hunter's fake Flash suit, and I think the helmet better fit Sears then Shipp :shrug:.

    That said, I'm really hoping we see more of Jay in season 3, showing us what he's like and exploring his relationship with Barry ;).
     
  11. Road to Gotham

    Road to Gotham Well-Known Member

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    AWESOME! My Dream came true, JWS is the Goldgen Age Flash. YAY!!!
    Boy, He sure look good in the uniform.

    I am hoping next season there are a couple of solo Jay Garrick episodes or flashbacks to his superhero career.
    Maybe Amanda Pays could play Joan Garrick. Now that would be SUPER COOL!
     
    #171 Road to Gotham, May 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  12. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Hadn't considered Flashpoint, largely because, since I wasn't reading comics for nearly 3 years, it was a bad idea, and now it's been adapted for television. Let's see how Team Berlanti screws this one up.
     
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  13. TnAdct1

    TnAdct1 Ravioli, Ravioli

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    Definitely not a good season finale IMO. While it did have some highlights (i.e. the climatic "race", the reveal that the masked man is the real Jay Garrick), it also reflects the two biggest problems that this season suffered from:

    1. Barry angst for the sake of drama;
    2. Padding things out (like the idea of Team Flash locking up Barry and trying to handle Zoom on their own is really going to prevent the "race" from happening).

    Then there's the final minutes of the episode. Between the incident going against what Barry learned while in the Speed Force, the idea of that if they were going to do it, it should have happened at the end of Season 1, and the whole mess that happened in DC Comics as a result of this story, I'm not sure going the Flashpoint route this early in the show's run is a good idea.
     
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  14. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
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    I thought the season as a whole got pretty mediocre at times but this finale kind of worked for me. I wish that so much of the season wasn't spent on Zoom but I was happy to see the take-down. Wally finally feels like a welcome addition to the show. Harry finally has some peace, and hopefully he and Jessie will do a good job trying to restore their city. The only thing that left me scratching my head was Barry's eventual breakdown and time travel (Could comic Flash ever do it that easy or without the treadmill?). I thought about the changes that will take effect but my mind hadn't gone to Flashpoint at all. I was thinking that maybe they would try to get rid of the tragedy in Barry's life for a more silver age backstory but Flashpoint makes so much more sense. I hope they get the characters from the other shows involved when we see it and that it will from a different feel from the Earth 2 stuff.

    I wonder if Jay will be connected to the JSA that Legends is promising. With these two finale reveals now, I almost wouldn't be shocked if Arrow did something crazy and had Alan Scott debut.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk.
     
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  15. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    Maybe they're doing Flashpoint so Supergirl will be part of the shared continuity. Explaining when Barry stopped his mother's death caused big implications and disruptions to the entire multiverse, one result could have been the merging of Supergirl and the CW universe. I think that would be way more easier to explain/understand than if they did something CRISIS like in an attempt to have Supergirl part of the Arrow-verse.

    These ramifications have to impact at least Arrow and Legends Of Tomorrow as well. I can't imagine how The Flash would have a new status quo do to altering the past (be it permanent or temporary), and Arrow & Legends carry on like normal.
     
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  16. Troy Troodon

    Troy Troodon Well-Known Member

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    I really... really hope they don't pull the Flashpoint story on this show! I don't know if this was informed on the site at all, but I have a major dislike for Flashpoint and Geoff Johns retcons to tell the stories he wants to tell.

    See, Barry Allan never had dead parents in the first place, he's not like Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent, both of whom lost their families while he still had his. Then enter Geoff Johns who retconned that Hunter Zolomon apparently murdered Nora Allan. It's like Writer's since then had this negative stimulation towards writing stories with superheroes without dead loved ones or something.

    And then after that came Flashpoint, which teaches that if you try to save someone... it apparently screws up the entire world, making everything DARK, EDGY, and HARDCORE with blood and violence what not. It's basically a 90's antihero gimmick. (And I could also go into the statistics of how Time Travel actually works but then we'd be here all day) I think Linkara mentions a Flash story that already explored the trilemma with Barry or Wally and his loved ones perfectly (Something that was also a better story than a certain Spider-Man story) so Flashpoint in of itself seems rather pointless; and that's especially saying something about it as an event comic that jumpstarted the reboot (But I digress)

    Look, Geoff Johns can be a good writer, and some of his stories are very well written; and they make you feel for certain characters like never before-- but in order to do that, the writer needs to disregard everything else we already knew about those characters! That's why he keeps treating retcons like a sledgehammer and plays very loose with continuity.
     
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  17. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    One correction, it wasn't Zolomon who killed Nora, it was Eobard Thawne, the original Reverse-Flash ;).
     
  18. Troy Troodon

    Troy Troodon Well-Known Member

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    My mistake. ^^;
     
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  19. Magmaster12

    Magmaster12 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with @Troy Troodon Barry Allen does not need a dead parent in order to motivate him, he's supposed to be an embodiment of hope and being completely motivated by a death ruins that.

    I'd only have situation like that if Barry confronted Jay Garrick (A Legacy one not a Counter Earth One) and ask him why he did not save his loved one.
     
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  20. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I will just say that, as much as I don't necessarily agree or approve of the retcon, it's generally been made clear (both in the show and the comics) that his mother's death isn't what motivates Barry to become The Flash or be a hero. It's because he's a good, positive, person who wants to do the right thing and help people :).

    Nowhere is this more clear then in the fact that, with or without his mother's death, Barry still becomes The Flash. He was The Flash in the original timeline, where his mother was still alive, just like he is in the current one (or previously current timeline as it were). Nora's death seems to have had more of an effect on him becoming a forensic scientist then it did a Superhero :ack:.
     
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