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The DTV Disney sequels are canonical or not?

Discussion in 'Disney/Pixar Forum' started by Juaco VTX7, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. Juaco VTX7

    Juaco VTX7 New Member

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    Hi everyone. Today I want to tell you that, no matter how much it hurts, it seems that the sequels DTV of Disney films (and so to speak also their television series) are not canonical. Maybe some of you do not like the sequels DTV, but for me and surely others of you, some are pretty good. I'll tell you why.

    First, the classic Disney Sequels were made by DisneyToon Studios or by Walt Disney Television Animation rather than by Walt Disney Animation Studios / Walt Disney Feature Animation. Several characters from Disney Sequels, such as Zira or Morgana, etc.; are never seen in the theme parks nor are they mentioned or seen in the parades. Because of this, for example, Pocahontas and John Smith continue as an official pair ignoring the existence of John Rolfe from Pocahontas II: Journey to a New World. In Kingdom Hearts II, the storyline of Aladdin II: The Return of Jafar is loosely adapted, but according to the Disney Wiki, the reason for which Abis Mal was replaced by the Peddler of Aladdin is because Abis Mal is not considered a canonical character as he appeared in a DTV sequel. For that reason, although more than fans ask for it, I doubt very much that Mozenrath of Aladdin: The Series could appear in Kingdom Hearts III.

    In addition, the events of the sequels very much contradict the original films. An example in The Return of Jafar: in the first film, the Genie is free from his lamp and leaves Agrabah's Palace to explore the world. In the second film, the Genie still has his golden shackles in his hands (although I think he could have worn them off because he had already become accustomed or simply as a reminder of his past). Furthermore, in The Little Mermaid: The Series, it is revealed that Ariel met Flaunder when she was 12 years old, but in The Little Mermaid III: Ariel's Beginning, it was showed that she met him when she was 16 years old. Apart of this, in The Little Mermaid it's mentioned that the concert of the princesses had been preparing for years but the first film happened about a year after the third and until the third the music was prohibited in Atlantica by King Triton (unless they practiced the concert until Athena died and after the prohibition was removed they practiced it again).

    If the question to this matter is this, we will saldy discover that many incredible and poignant Disney Sequels moments like Iago's reformation, Jane's adventure against Captian Hook, Athena's death, etc. Never happened. All of this is the fault of The Rescuers Down Under, which, at least for me, was a good movie.
     
    #1 Juaco VTX7, Aug 27, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  2. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

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    Well, it depends due to its quality, though we are finally getting sequels to Wreck-It Ralph and Frozen.

    Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Juaco VTX7

    Juaco VTX7 New Member

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    Well Adrenaline, Wreck-It-Ralph and Frozen getting sequels is a very good thing. And that statement about the animation's quaility is also true. My sister even takes note of this. But the great difference between the classic Disney Sequels and these upcoming sequels is that Walt Disney Animation Studios / Walt Disney Feature Animation are making it, while, as I posted, DisneyToon Studios or Walt Disney Television Animation were the ones who made the classic Disney Sequels for direct-to-video release, instead for a theatrical release, like the sequels of Frozen and Wreck-It-Ralph.
     
  4. Daikun

    Daikun Long Live the Fighter!
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    The DTV sequels are best left a dead and forgotten era in Disney's history, so I'm pretty sure the company would like to keep them non-canon.

    Those aren't DTV sequels. They're theatrical.
     
  5. Juaco VTX7

    Juaco VTX7 New Member

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    Daikun, thanks to your comment, I think you make me see that deep down, that is possibly the real reason why the classic Disney Sequels are not considered canonical. But seriously, there is no Disney Sequel that you liked even a little bit? Because I liked many of them!
     
  6. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

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    Not all DTV sequels to Disney films were bad. They may be among the weakest Disney films but to say that they're best left as a dead and forgotten era is a bit too much since it's not really forgotten at all. People still remember them on whether it had some of the weakest or not. It's non-canon because A) Disney's main animation unit were not involved in them and B) Disney's overseas animation studios were involved. The only non-canon sequels to have gotten a theatrical release were Return to Neverland and The Jungle Book 2 while one of the Tinkerbell films (the only CGI DTV films from Disney) got a limited release in cinemas.

    I never said they were going to be DTV sequels. All I said that there are going to be sequels to Wreck-It Ralph and Frozen and let me clarify: They're the first sequels to be part of the Disney Animated Canon since Winnie the Pooh, which is a sequel to The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh.

    Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
     
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    #6 AdrenalineRush1996, Aug 27, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  7. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    I thought Kronk's New Groove was hilarious and consider it canon, unlike The Emperor's New School due to loss of character development.
     
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  8. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
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    I don't know about that. If they didn't want to have any connection the DTV sequels, they wouldn't have Kiara, Kovu or the Outland lions show up in the Lion Guard. It is one of the better received DTV sequel, but if they didn't want it, they could have just had Simba's son Kion be the leader of the Lion Guard and future king instead.

    Yeah, Kronk's New Groove was fun and hilarious. At least it kept the character development from the first movie instead of throwing it out the window, which always bothered me about Emperor's New School.
     
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  9. Juaco VTX7

    Juaco VTX7 New Member

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    Hi Light Lucario. Is great to find you here! Yeah, I like The Lion Guard and I think that it's canon, because its animation style greatly differs from those of Tarzan: The Series or Jungle Cubs. However, there is still a question that is putting on risk its canonicity. What happened with Kion before The Lion King II: Simba's Pride? I don't want to think that the theory which says that Zira murdered him is true....
     
  10. AnotherRandomGuy

    AnotherRandomGuy The cat's in the cradle

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    It's a case by case basis.
    While Disney might not have a problem acknowledging The Lion King 2 happened, I don't think they're willing to bring up The Fox and the Hound 2 or Bambi 2 anytime soon.

    Heck, when was the last time Lumpy was brought up in Winnie the Pooh "canon"?
     
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  11. Toon4Thought

    Toon4Thought Giving a slightly closer look.

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    Fully agree. The show did have some good moments, most of which stemmed from Yzma and Kronk (both of which had the same VAs as the movie - in fact, Eartha Kitt passed not long after the show ended), but yeah Kuzco was bar none the most annoying part of the show in multiple regards. And considering he's the title character, that's a pretty big problem. In fact, not only is the character development gone but so is any charm he had in the first film, largely because whoever voiced him in the show - while he's trying - always seems to give very over the top inflections, whereas Spade could get subtle every so often.

    As for the actual topic, it seems they are sometimes canonical and sometimes they aren't. The Lion Guard contains characters from "Simba's Pride" (most notably Kiara), but then again that is by far one of the better received ones among the crowd. It seems the majority of the time, they aren't, simply because they were done on a much smaller scale and are associated with a trend Disney is no longer partaking in.
     
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  12. TnAdct1

    TnAdct1 Ravioli, Ravioli

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    If there's any cheapquel that I would consider canon, it would be Pocahontas II, as the stuff depicted in the film is actually inspired by what happened with Pocahontas in real life.
     
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  13. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
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    My in-universe guess is that Kion either wasn't born by the time Kiara first met Kovu or was still young at the time. They wouldn't have Zira murdering Kion or any of the established characters in the Lion Guard. They wouldn't go that dark and they could easily retcon some explanation for why the Lion Guard isn't present during the rest of the Simba's Pride events when the series is over. They could just do another special where they factor more into Kovu and the other Outland lions join Simba's pride.

    I'm not sure how they could bring up something like Bambi 2 when it was a midquel and I don't think it brought in too many new characters. I think it was a good movie and one of the few cases where a midquel works, but it would be hard to promote that other than having something involving Bambi and his father.

    As for the question itself, I do agree that it seems to be a case by case kind of situation. Most of the DTV sequels didn't introduce new popular characters that they could promote with more merchandise. Not to mention they are pretty infamous among fans of the movies. Not all of them were bad. There were a number of DTV that I thought were good or at least entertaining enough, but they still were generally received fairly poorly, so they may not want to draw attention to most of them.
     
  14. ZukoFan

    ZukoFan Member

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    Since no one at Disney (like a producer or director) has ever officially confirmed the canon status of the sequels, my guess is that we get to decide what's canon and what's not. It's really a matter of personal preference.

    That said, the television series Disney has based off films have bizarre chronology. As most of you have noticed, The Emperor's New School turns back time to where Kuzco is absolutely unlikable. But the oddities don't end there. The theme song's opening lines make zero sense: "He's on his way to the throne, he's on his way to success! But he has to go to school, he's got to ace that test!" This makes it sound as if he isn't emperor but will be (which completely contradicts the first film). And, this is random, but if he's really the emperor, why on earth would he need to go to school?

    Continuing with that idea, the Tangled animated series takes place between Tangled and Tangled: Ever After (that is, after Rapunzel and Eugene have met but before they marry). Why they did that, I don't know. The same sort of odd decisions happen in The Little Mermaid and Hercules series. Now I'm not saying any of these are necessarily awful shows; they just make no sense with regard to the overall plot of their respective franchises.
     
  15. Juaco VTX7

    Juaco VTX7 New Member

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    I would also consider canon thta film TnAdct1, but as I mentioned before, why John Rolfe has been omitted from Disney Parks and merchanside? John Smith and Pocahontas appear to still be an official couple, so that's the question. But I agree with you.
     
  16. ShadowBlinky

    ShadowBlinky Never A Good Bot

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    I know I'd love to think that Mulan 2 never happened (in the same continuity or anywhere).
     
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  17. Dr.Pepper

    Dr.Pepper Well-Known Member

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    I too believe it's a case by case basis. I have zero problems with stuff from the better sequels (such as Bambi 2 and Simba's Pride) being canon, I like to pretend stuff like Mulan II and Belle's Enchanted Stories (or whatever it was called) never happened.
     
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  18. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    Did you see the premiere episode? Some realized emperors must have had education, which Kuzco never had. He was the emperor from an early age. So that's why he has to go to school. Otherwise he can't be the emperor.
    Yeah, Kronk and Yzma were quite funny. I first saw the show, then Kronk's New Groove and then the first movie. I lost interest in the show quickly after seeing the movies, simply because I realized the show keeps repeating the same jokes from the movies, and it gets stale fast. They were milking two great movies for another 52 episodes without much new jokes.
     
  19. jaylop97

    jaylop97 L Twins

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    Its really is hard to tell about some movie statuses, it really depends on the coverage that is given from most films if they at least reference some movie material, though in most cases they just start of where they left of while not really talking much of anything before hand.
     
  20. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu That's 'Cause I ATE IT!!!
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    I'm a little confused by the reference to "canonical," since I'm not certain that there's enough consistency across projects for that to be a meaningful distinction. Tarzan vs. Tarzan's TV show vs. Tarzan's movies are inconsistent enough across both that you could easily say "two distinct continuities" akin to the way Marvel had the "616 universe" and the "Ultimates universe."

    I also think that it's relevant to talk about some of the behind-the-scenes stuff that didn't end up on screen. Disney TV is a separate entity than the Disney studios that make movies, and the movies are further sub-divided into the theatrical release side (Disney Feature Animation) and DTV projects (DisneyToon). All 3 of these groups generally don't talk to each other and, until John Lasseter came along as the Chief Creative Officer for the entire animation division, there wasn't any consistency in creative management across them. In practical terms, this means that the TV series could break from the movie in a different way than a DTV sequel because there was no gatekeeper anywhere saying, "This Is the Way Character X Works." Or there was, but it was a a high-enough level that allowed those 2 creative visions to separate from each other.

    This matters because some of the Disney DTV sequels were really rejected TV series pilots that got repackaged, while others were true sequels envisioned as feature films. I know Atlantis and Cinderella II were both aborted TV pilots, and I'm pretty sure it's true about Mulan and Pocahontas also. If those DTVs feel like 2-3 episodes of a TV show smashed together, it's because they are. However, Cinderella III was produced as a full sequel and didn't necessarily tie well to either the original feature or #2/the TV series 'cuz they were envisioned at different points. For that matter, C3 was produced by people who recognized how bad the cheapquels were for a long time and were actively trying to address those problems (and succeeded enough that I think C3 is even better than the original movie in some aspects).

    But anyway, I also think discussion about "canon" can be diverting but ultimately not as important as people make it out to be. If you like it, it's "canon" and if you don't, then it isn't. If you're in a situation where this is even a question, then you're also in a situation where you can pick-and-choose what you want to accept and what you don't.
     
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