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"The Dark Knight" Sequel Pre-Release Discussion, Part 2 (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, Oct 30, 2008.

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  1. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    this just made my day. possibly quote of the year:
    so it's not ok to recast the joker in a brief amount time, but it's more than ok to consider or actually recast (and reboot), in the same brief amount of time, superman, spider-man, the punisher, the hulk, war machine, the fantastic four, daredevil, ect. please contribute to the list if i forgot anything. i still dont know what annoys me more, that the people in charge make these decisions or that the fans go along with it and agree (if you agree with the reboot/recasting decisions that's fine, but once again, why is it ok for all these upcoming reboots/recastings/new crew of comic book movies when it's not ok for joel schumacher to direct batman and it's not ok to have george clooney star as batman).

    oh wait. my mistake. heath ledger is only the greatest actor of all time. shame on me for forgetting that. we need to keep intact the legacy of the greatest actor to ever grace the silver screen by not recasting a character that was created before he was born and was portrayed by other actors before him. silly me.
     
  2. KCJ506

    KCJ506 Active Member

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    Here's the thing. Yes other actors have played Joker, but they've all had a different take on the character. Romero's Joker is different from Nicholson's Joker is different from Hamill's Joker is different from Ledger's Joker.

    Recasting the Joker for this movie wouldn't be fair to the actor cast, because he'd have to do an impression rather than put his own spin on it. The Joker isn't some actual historic character, so there are many ways to play him and I know I wouldn't want to just copy Ledger. Who would want that job? There's no way they could just change the Joker's attitude and persona, because Ledger created such a great version, ignoring it would be ridiculous.
     
  3. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    Heath's Joker was more popular then all those mentioned characters by a great margin. And Chris just doesn't feel comfortable recasting his role.

    It's not a big deal in a few years a new director will create a new Batman film series and with his own Joker as well.
     
  4. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    Well all those characters, save War Machine, are main title characters so if they want a film about those characters and can't get the actors or want to do something in a different continuity with them then yes they have to recast. With War Machine they couldn't get the original actor due internal problems and they were using the character in Iron Man 2, so they had to recast.

    With the Joker, his story was done at the end of Dark Knight. There's no story reason to have him in 3 so they can not use him since he's not the main character or part of the supporting cast. You can do a Batman film without the Joker, but you can't do one without Batman. The same goes for Superman, Spider-Man, the Punisher, the Hulk, the Fantastic Four, Daredevil, ect.
     
  5. Knight

    Knight Emerald Knight

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    Its no surprise to me that the Joker won't be in the next film. His story was pretty much tied up at the end of DK, he was arrested and went to jail. He is one of those characters you expect to come back eventually but next film would be too soon anyway. Plus I know what they fear most is finding someone who could play the Joker as well as Ledger. His preformance will be hard to beat.
     
    #485 Knight, Jun 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2010
  6. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    thanks to that quote, i can get my point across without a long rant (where applied):
    Rebooting one of the most iconic comic book/super hero film franchise of the millennial decade in such a brief amount of time will be a terrible decision.

    before heath died it was implied the joker would be back. i don't blame nolan for tossing those plans. at the very least we can have a cameo. they can have a shadow cover his face, only show the back of his head, incorporate newly discovered audio/video footage to make a cgi heath, ect. maybe there's a scene in arkham and we hear the joker laughing in the background. due to unfortunate circumstances the joker story is over, that doesn't mean that the character doesn't exist anymore in christopher nolan's "universe".

    the joker is batman's arch nemesis. to simply ignore him in future movies would be rediculous. the joker's actions will have a lasting impact on batman/bruce forever (no pun intended) and the next movie needs to have the joker appear in some minor form.
     
  7. KCJ506

    KCJ506 Active Member

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    I don't think the next movie is just gonna ignore Joker. He might get mentioned. And even if Ledger hadn't died, there was never any guarantee that Joker would be back.

    I love Joker, but there are so many other rouges Nolan hasn't used. Or stories. I think overusing the Joker could be too much. It's like when people want something popular more and more after a while they loose that special something. If every Batman Comic had Joker only in it, it would be boring. With the movies we only have three movies each around 2 hours or so. With 70 years of history there is sooooo many things that can be done greatly.

    So many great other stories out there, lets see some others. Yes Joker is Batman's ultimate villain, but there are many other great stories and conflicts/rouges he can face.
     
  8. CyclonatorZ

    CyclonatorZ Active Member

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    I'm honestly glad that they aren't recasting the Joker for Batman 3. Heath Ledger's Joker was practically perfection - he was easily one of the scarriest and most threatening villians ever on screen, and trying to replicate him would never go well.

    That said, I'm perfectly open to him being a minor part of the movie, perhaps done in the way rggkjg1 suggested. Some references to his reign of terror, and perhaps even a non-speaking cameo would work. But in no way should he be as big a focus as he was in The Dark Knight. Like others have said, his story is pretty much done: he attempted to destroy Gotham, but thanks to Batman's heroic sacrifice, he failed. Now, he is out of the picture, and Batman 3 should really be about what happens to the title character.

    As for future villians, I'm really hoping they stick with two. It's been shown time and time again that having three villians never works well in a superhero sequel. Having a main villian, like Bane or Riddler, and having Catwoman as an anti-hero/love interest for Bruce would work well, I'd say. Regardless, I'm glad to know that Nolan knows how the series will end - and that gives me confidence that he could very well make the best movie trilogy ever. :)
     
  9. Silverstar

    Silverstar Rock the Dragon

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    Even if the Joker does resurface in another Nolan Batman film, it shouldn't be in the one directly after The Dark Knight. That's just too soon. Joker's story was already concluded at the end of TDK, so bringing him back immediately afterward would make the next film look like a cheap rehash of TDK. Ledger or no Ledger, the producers need to put time and space between Batman's recurring villains and not rely on the same ones all the time. Every Batman movie shouldn't feature the Joker any more than every Superman movie should feature Lex Luthor or every Fantastic Four movie should feature Dr. Doom or every X-Men movie should feature Magneto.

    The Joker is a great villain, but he doesn't need to be in every Batman film. Batman's rich history extends over decades, and so there are plenty of decent Batman stories which can be told without the Joker.
     
  10. KCJ506

    KCJ506 Active Member

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    That's because of the writing. Not just simply having three villains. Superman 2 had four and look how well that turned out.
     
  11. Knight

    Knight Emerald Knight

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    Great point. People too often try to say "x" amount of villains equal movie failure. Its all about how it is done. The Dark Knight had 3 itself(Scarecrow, Joker and Two face).
     
  12. KCJ506

    KCJ506 Active Member

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    Well I really wouldn't count Scarecrow. I mean he only had like 2 minutes of screentime in TDK.
     
  13. Knight

    Knight Emerald Knight

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    But if we are going by pure numbers he was there was involved in the action and had a speaking role.
     
  14. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    dont forget the "third movie curse" too. if the scarecrow had a cameo in the dark knight, the joker can appear. of course, someone can argue that the scarecrow story wasn't finished and that's why he was in it. cillian murphy's performance of the scarecrow is still the best performance of a batman villian (yes, better than ledger as the joker), so i would have taken any excuse to have him back in the dark knight and i'll take any excuse to have scarecrow back in the third film.

    i have a strong feeling the next movie is going to be a 1 villian movie. i'm sure there will be mob/gang bosses as well, but only 1 main batman villian.
     
  15. KCJ506

    KCJ506 Active Member

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    The last two movies had more than one villain that wasn't a gang boss, so I doubt Nolan is gonna reduce it down to just one. Especially if this is gonna be his last Batman film.

    If heavy hitter's like Ra's, Joker, and Two-Face didn't get to be solo villains, then I'm pretty sure others won't.
     
  16. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    i think the next villian won't be a heavy hitter, so there might be a need to explain/introduce this villian the general audience doesn't know. along with that, i feel there will be way too much happenning in the plot/story and too many things that need to get resolved in this movie if it is nolan's last. 2+ villians might be a little much for a film with alot going on in it. maybe a 2 1/2 - 3 hour run time might solve some of those potential problems.

    with the upcoming release of inception, it seems quite obvious that nolan likes to use actors he's already worked with. i'm thinking actors/actresses who made their debut working with nolan on inception are going to be appearing in batman 3. going by that logic, i would pick ellen page for batgirl/barbara gordon (obviously we wouldnt see her as batgirl. babs batgirl was actually jim gordon's niece in the comics, later jim legally became her guardian. this would explain the age difference between gordon's real daughter in the dark knight).

    ha. and wouldn't you know it, everybody's favorite heath ledger lookalike, joseph gordon-leviit is in inception too. logically and realistically i guess he could fill in for the joker cameo now that he's worked with nolan. hahahahaha.
     
  17. CyclonatorZ

    CyclonatorZ Active Member

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    I think that's kind of jumping to conclusions. Nolan may be fond of using actors he's already worked with, but that doesn't mean he'll try to fill every major role with actors who appeared in his other films. It's far more likely that, when we do see the new characters revealed, they will be all people who didn't appear in the Prestige, Memento, Inception, etc.

    Also, I can't really see Barbara Gordon appearing, as she probably wouldn't add much to the plot. Nolan's Batman series has always been about Batman, not any of the other members of the Bat-family, and there's no point in introducing Barbara if she doesn't eventually become Batgirl. The third film is probably not going to have a large section devoted to Gordon's family life, so giving him a niece would be pointless.
     
  18. KCJ506

    KCJ506 Active Member

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    Well judging from the previous movies Nolan might have three/four villains. A main villain. A mob villain. A side villain. And maybe a small cameo for another one.

    BB

    Main Villain - Ras
    Mob Villain - Falcone
    Side Villain - Scarecrow
    Cameo Villain - Zsasz

    TDK

    Main Villain - Joker
    Mob Villain - Maroni
    Side Villain - Two-Face
    Cameo Villain - Scarecrow


    Batman 3(Just my predictions)

    Main Villain - Riddler
    Mob Villain - Black Mask
    Side Villain - Catwoman
    Cameo Villain - ?


    Not to mention that Nolan has never used actors he's worked with before for his Batman movies.
     
  19. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    i brought it up because i would see more legitimacy in a rumor involving an actor/actress who previously worked with nolan in a non batman film than i would with the same bs rumors of johnny depp as the riddler and angelina jolie as catwoman.
     
  20. langden alger

    langden alger Active Member

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    With the way Nolan said that the story would be wrapping-up, I wouldn't be surprised to see a return of Ras in some capacity. plus Two-Face lurking around, even though he's thought to be dead. many people are assuming The Riddler is a given. However he might just be left out of the whole story or relegated to a minor part along with a few other notable faces like Scarecrow and Poison Ivy-kind of like how they were in The Long Halloween. Like maybe they're some of the hired guns to protect some of the remaining mob bosses.
     
    #500 langden alger, Jun 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2010
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