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"The Dark Knight Rises" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, Jul 20, 2012.

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"The Dark Knight Rises" - Rate and Discuss!

  1. *****

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  2. ****1/2

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  5. ***

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  1. Bat-Fan Beyond

    Bat-Fan Beyond Active Member

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    Remind me again, at which point did that happen? Was it the moment when he finally made the jump while climbing out of the pit without the rope? I recall that scene being a pretty powerful "Oh yeah, Batman's back!" moment.
     
  2. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    I'd say that's my favourite moment. All of those movies have the Batman "entrance" theme which is also played during the credits. After four years of waiting, it was great to hear it again. And the way the scene is done was so epic in reintroducing Batman.
     
  3. KYO'NYUU IMOUTO

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    It was during the motorcycle chase, although it's also used later on in the movie. Very rarely is there an "Oh, expletive, it's on!" track in superhero films, but the Batman theme here is absolutely one of the moments where there is.
     
  4. Bat-Fan Beyond

    Bat-Fan Beyond Active Member

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    Oh yeah! The motorcycle chase -- which surprising shows Batman sooner in the film than I thought they would have -- was awesome!

    It is kind of strange that there are TWO Batman's back moments in the film: One, after he comes out of retirement, and the other, after he comes back from the pit.
     
  5. robin08927

    robin08927 New Member

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    I also went with my cousin and during the Robin part everyone went "ohhh!!! " And I wanted to scream,but yeah it was amazing . I also love part where he gets the bat and fox says "yes it comes in black."
     
  6. Toddman

    Toddman Hulk not good with words.

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    Okay, so why in your opinion do the Ra's attributes "encapsulate" the character, yet the Blake/Grayson similarities (which to me seem equally as important) to you are merely "superficial"? What is your criteria for making that distinction? I'm unclear why you feel the elements of the Ra's Al Ghul character that were taken from the comics were somehow more essential than the traits the John Blake character shared with Dick Grayson.

    Do you not like the idea that Blake didn't have a background as a circus acrobat? Because Nolan tweaked the Ra's Al Ghul character enough so that he was no longer a 600-year-old Arab.

    Is it because in the comics Grayson first partnered w/Batman when he was just a pre-teen, but Blake was an adult when he first helps Bats? That's not much different than having Ra's first meet Bruce Wayne before he assumes the role of Batman, instead of having their first encounter take place when Batman had already been active for many years.

    Is it simply because Grayson has never adopted the identity of "John Blake"? Well, Ra's Al Ghul had never used the name "Henri Ducard," nor used an impersonator to conceal his identity.

    Now don't get me wrong, I think all the changes that were applied to Ra's in the Nolan movies were terrific and truly complimented the style of storytelling that he used. As you pointed out, the character never lost his essence. But in my opinion John Blake embodied just as much of the fundamental nature of the Dick Grayson character.


    But again, why did Nolan feel it was necessary to call him "Robin" at all? It never felt to me that the "Robin" line at the end of the movie was meant to be some profound tribute to all of the Robins that have existed before. How do you know for sure that was Nolan's intention? It came off as a cheesy one-liner - it seemed like nothing more than a sly ;) to the audience (including Robin fans - which I consider myself to be).

    I'm just saying that if Nolan wanted a Robin-like character with Robin-like characteristics, then just make him the real Robin. Embrace it! Own it, Nolan! Don't give an otherwise cool character a girl's name just for the sake of a few chuckles...


    Toddman
     
  7. purplehairedwonder

    purplehairedwonder No woman should suffer at the hands of men
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    Finally got around to seeing it last night in IMAX. Missed the first couple of minutes; my friend and I got into the 7:00 showing around 7:05 and the movie had already started. Huh? That being said, this review coming from some with only a passing familiarity with the comics, meaning I'm probably as close to a casual movie goer you're going to find here. So here goes.

    I loved it. I meant to rewatch BB and TDK before seeing TDKR, but it didn't come to fruition. I'll probably try to before seeing it a second time, though, and will see how that affects my viewing. But even without rewatching, I really loved the way this film was woven around repercussions from events in both previous films. They were both essential to get to the events in TDKR.

    I loved that despite the magnitude of the film, it was still a very personal story. So many of the characters had a lot of soul-searching to do at one point or another, which made it riveting. And each actor did a stellar job with his or her characters. That, for me, helped since Bruce wasn't in as much of the film as you'd expect; but the supporting characters like Gordon and Blake and Selina Kyle were interesting enough to follow their paths.

    I think my two favorite moments of the film were when Blake confronted Bruce and told him he knew who he was and when Batman basically told Gordon who he was and that Gordon was his hero. The depth of those scenes has really stuck with me.

    Speaking of Blake, he was great. JGL was amazing, especially in that "You killed us!" scream when the troops blew the bridge. Great addition to the cast. As was Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle. Really, no complaints for the cast.

    Oh, and the back breaking scene? I think my favorite thing about it was that there was no music during that fight at all. I knew something bad was going to happen with that silence; it was absolutely haunting.

    Loved the ending, too. I had a feeling it was going to end with Alfred seeing Bruce in the cafe and honestly, I don't have a problem with that. I liked that we got to see that he was with Selina. That could potentially be a very interesting relationship, him a retired superhero and her with a clean slate. The smiles on both Alfred's and Bruce's faces in that scene just made me grin like an idiot.

    Honestly, I keep hearing "This is a flawed movie," yet none of the flaws brought up particularly bothered me. I don't know if it's comic book fan syndrome or what, but as a casual viewer, I was absolutely blown away.

    And since it's getting so much discussion, the "Robin" line got applause in my theater, and I was at a showing weeks after the film had come out, so we were pretty much all casual viewers. Take that as you will. It personally made me grin.

    *****/***** from me. Can't wait to see it again.
     
  8. BatKid

    BatKid The True Batman

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    Because everything about Ra's was covered. Even the immortality bit (which I won't argue was an improvement), was reinterpreted by Nolan and still included as part of the presentation. His wisdom, megalomania, kinship with Bruce, devotion to the cause -- it's all there. TDKR even expanded on Ra's brief reference to his former life as a mercenary, and as a husband/father. Nolan didn't miss a beat. There can be an argument that Ra's could've used more development, sure. But in terms of adapting the core essentials of what's in the books, it's absolutely there.

    You're unfairly equating the alterations to Ra's, as if that was equal to Blake's....when Blake was never Dick in the first place. I'm not understanding how those were valid comparisons. The only thing that remotely reminded me of Dick was his orphaned status and headstrong will to do what's right. That hardly encapsulates a fully formed character. I'll tell you what was missing; his relationship with Bruce, initially as a son, and eventually as a brother. Training with Bruce, to become his own partner in crime. Clashing and eventually revolting against Bruce, when their idealogies were no long in sync. And the most obvious of them all, actually becoming Robin.

    If you think any of Nolan's changes to any one of his characters, was remotely as drastic as what I just listed, then bravo, you have more strength than I. There is no way in hell that as a Robin fan, that I'd be in any way satisfied with completely glossing over those important beats to the Grayson character.


    Why he's named Robin is rather obvious, and I'd be pulling a time waster to write it down again. If you're a Robin fan, it should be immediately obvious the parallels Blake draws with each of the three initial Robin's. Not in costume, but in how he was written and the role he served in the story. Robin represents the future of Gotham, in an era past Bruce Wayne. Which character in the lore best symbolizes that progression, borne out of Batman's influence, and most deserving of the spot as Batman's successor? Whaddy'a know. ;)
     
  9. spartanx54

    spartanx54 Active Member

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    Saw Rises a second time while on vacation and...

    Now that's more like it! On my second viewing I felt most of the problems I had with the movie on my first viewing were erased. After seeing it a second time I will say I liked it better than TDK. This was the best of the trilogy.

    I loved that whole scene with Blake trying to get the orphans out of Gotham. Very intense scene.
     
  10. defunctzombie

    defunctzombie 1992 not 2002
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    You really didn't miss much in those first ten or so minutes. I forgot all about the scientist until they dragged him into the reactor half way through.
     
  11. Wounded_Dragon

    Wounded_Dragon Active Member

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    Some IMAX theaters start the movie on time, no commercials or trailers at all. This has decreased as more and more movies have IMAX/IMAX3D versions but I guess some still do.
     
  12. Hanshotfirst1138

    Hanshotfirst1138 Singing drunken lullabies

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    It was a cool action scene.
     
  13. DarkAngel

    DarkAngel Lord Vader

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    Agreed. I'd have hated to miss any of that sequence.
     
  14. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    I'll third this. The scene was cleverly done, and it made for a great opening.
     
  15. purplehairedwonder

    purplehairedwonder No woman should suffer at the hands of men
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    Good to know. I'm going to see it a second time tomorrow, so I'll make sure to get there in plenty of time ;)
     
  16. Hanshotfirst1138

    Hanshotfirst1138 Singing drunken lullabies

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    It was actually the preview they showed months ago attached to some IMAX prints of Mission: Impossible: Ghost Protocol.
     
  17. Toddman

    Toddman Hulk not good with words.

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    You had asked how the Ra's Al Ghul character from the movies diverged from the character in the comics so I provided examples of those differences. At the same time, I was trying to figure out what important pieces of the Dick Grayson character you thought were not embodied in the character of John Blake.

    I guess that's a difference of opinion we'll just have to live with then. I thought that even though Blake was not written to be the actual Dick Grayson, he possessed enough of the same qualities thet he would have served as an excellent on-screen rendition of Grayson. For me none of the elements of his character that you mentioned above were essential to establishing that.


    But Robin doesn't represent that all. Few if any interpretations of Robin use the character as a progression of Batman. Robin doesn't exist to be Batman's successor - Robin exists to be Batman's sidekick. If anything Robin reinforces the present-day status quo for Batman.

    Plenty of other characters have been borne from Batman's influence and/or have positioned themselves to carry on for him: Batgirl, Batwoman, Azrael, Terry McGinnis, Huntress, and of course the most obvious one of all - Nightwing. As Grayson himself said in the comics when he first decided to give up the Robin identity, " 'Robin' will always be the back half of 'Batman and' ."


    Toddman
     
  18. Bat-Fan Beyond

    Bat-Fan Beyond Active Member

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    Y'know, as much as I think the whole "Robin" thing in this movie is lame, cheesy and forced, I think everyone on both sides is making a bigger deal of it than it should be. It's only a dumb reference for the sake of fan-service, and nothing more. John Blake is not Robin. He's not THE Robin. He's not Dick Grayson. He's not Jason Todd. He's not Tim Drake. He's not Damian Wayne. He's not Robin! He's just a cop named John "Robin" Blake or "Robin" John Blake. I really didn't like it either, but I'm certainly not going to harp on it or debate what it actually means when it's not anything more than what it is -- a simple nod to the comics. It's not meant to be anything more than an acknowledgement for fans to get a kick out of (or hate), much like the reference in the first X-Men movie about yellow spandex.
     
  19. purplehairedwonder

    purplehairedwonder No woman should suffer at the hands of men
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    Last night I rewatched Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and today saw The Dark Knight Rises for a second time. And wow, the rewatch did a lot for my perception. It had been ages since I'd seen either of the first two films, so I went into my first viewing fairly cold and still loved it. But rewatching the first two with the events of TDKR in mind really helped pieces to fall into place. There were a lot of bits and nods in the first two that found their way into the third, which I never would have picked up on as particularly important on their own. So I guess watching them both in succession and in hindsight really hammers in their place as a cohesive trilogy, rather than three separate, extremely well-done Batman films.

    That being said, I teared up at the end on rewatch too, even though I knew Bruce survived. I also noticed that the first shot of Batman supposedly flying the bomb out to the bay after blowing up the buildings in the city had background that looked like he was flying between buildings, not out in the open over the bridge. Not something I would have picked up unless I'd been looking for it.

    So like many others have said, a second viewing really does wonders for the film, even if you loved it the first time.
     
  20. DarkAngel

    DarkAngel Lord Vader

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    Feel like I've gone kind of crazy with this one, having seen it 4 times now, including in true IMAX. Movie does seem to get better with each viewing. Saw it with my brother last night, who's visiting from Boston and hadn't yet seen the movie. We saw it on a regular screen, and boy did the picture seem poor compared to the huge IMAX. Remarkable difference between the two.

    I also noticed when I saw it last night that there was a small bit missing from the stock exchange sequence. The brief part where the two guys are talking while getting their shoes shined did not include their conversation (which I think had been about Wayne's return and not shorting stocks) and just showed them getting up and leaving. I'm assuming that wasn't some bizarre mistake and that its a difference between IMAX and regular screenings? Were there other bits missing, because nothing else stood out the rest of the movie as being different.
     

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