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"The Dark Knight Rises" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, Jul 20, 2012.

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"The Dark Knight Rises" - Rate and Discuss!

  1. *****

    32.8%
  2. ****1/2

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  3. ****

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  4. ***1/2

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  5. ***

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  1. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    can someone explain to me the film's message of "batman as a concept"? is there a 100 percent "this is what it is/exactly what the director wanted and is saying" or is it open for interpretation for the viewer? aside from the film's lack of realism, the way the film preaches batman as a concept is another minus for the film. i wanted to make sure i know what they were going for regarding batman as a concept (or if it's up for the viewer to have their own interpretation of it) before i chip in my 2 cents on the matter and explain how batman as a concept as preached in this film doesnt work for me.
     
  2. Gatomon41

    Gatomon41 Free Equestrian Forces

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    Well, the idea was that everyone could stand up against crime and villainy, all they did was have to take a stand and not be afraid. Sort of like the "The Ideal/Myth is more important than the man", the character inspires others.

    Now I have to agree with you that this inconsistent. Batman never seemed much of a Everyman hero. Especially since he does stop a bunch of Copycat Batmen in the last film, and tells them he doesn't need help. Or the fact that Batman does rely on high tech gadgets that only a Billionaire could afford. Or going through years of ninja training. Or the fact that Batman exists because he could do what nobody can do. The "batman can be anyone" idea is just out of left field.

    Then again, the scene is more important as a "passing the torch" moment considering the ending.
     
  3. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    He's a symbol people can stand up to crime and take Gotham back. He's not saying put on the costume and get yourself killed. And there will always be a Batman to keep that message alive.
     
  4. Gatomon41

    Gatomon41 Free Equestrian Forces

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    Doesn't having another Batman sort of contradict the "He's not saying put on the costume and get yourself killed" message? Which in fact, is what happens latter?

    At this point, I think Alfred may be right, and Bruce really lost some of marbles.
     
  5. Cortez2301

    Cortez2301 Active Member

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    I hope to god that there is a director's cut, I was waiting for this and that was one of my main hopes after I saw the movie. Its not just about Bane's backstory, its the hopes that maybe we get to see more screen time for Miranda Tate and even Selina Kyle. Also, a few minutes of Gotham under Bane's control would be vital just to get a good look at how some citizens were living.
     
  6. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    Not really. There is still a Batman. Blake was picked by Bruce to be his successor when he decided to hang up the cowl. Blake was a special individual who will continue to send that message as the new Batman. He's not saying that everyone should do this.
     
  7. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    I feel like "The Batman can be anyone" was never a theme of any of the movies. They're all about the potency of special individuals to inspire for good or ill and the responsibility that comes along with that. In Returns they create an inspiring lie, in Rises Batman goes through a crucible of suffering to create a heroic truth. Having done so he no longer needs to be Batman because the inspirational image was always more important than the guy who punches people in the face.

    The point as I see it is that people like Batman or Dent or Joker or Ras inspire people to be better or worse (although the Joker did it in a way he didn't expect when people rejected his madness). But everyone can't be Batman because they aren't all special enough to set such an influential example.

    So, Blake isn't some schmoe who was handed the Bat costume, he earns it by fighting and sacrificing for Gotham. This guy stood up to the US military and didn't back down, he was willing to die for others and for what he believed in without hesitation.
     
  8. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    my analysis of batman as a concept, and how the film(s) preach it:

    in batman begins bruce comes up with the concept as a symbol because this symbol would allow him to do things and stand for things an ordinary man cant. in the dark knight, alfred points out that the whole point of batman is that he can take it and make choices no one else has to make. those 2 things make sense for batman as a concept. bruce adopts the symbol of a bat because he cant scare the cowardly supersitious criminals dressed up in simply a ski mask. batman can take things no one else can take becasue his reputation is at almost a mythical level that is more than a man. people dont even know if batman actually exists or know if he's actually a real man under the mask.

    bruce also mentions in the dark knight how that wasnt what he meant when he wanted to inspire people. inspiring people is a noble effort and plan, but it just cant work. bruce's mission isnt about inspiring gotham city. it's about fighting crime by dressing up as a bat using intimidation and fear. bruce wayne will be batman until his last dying breath. he will be batman until his last dying breath because he cant possibly inspire hope (at least to the extent the films preach) to the high level he wants to. whether bruce inspires hope or not, he will continue his mission. gotham city will always need a batman. some citizens might feel safer or more relaxed that they have a guardian looking out for them, and the criminals might be more hesitant to commit crimes because of batman looking over the city, but that's as far as it goes. the good is dependant on batman and always will be. gotham city will always need a batman.

    now we get to my gripes/rants on the situation as exactly portrayed (or how i took it). the best thing about the nolan movies was batman's and gordon's friendship/partership. if i'm supposed to believe in batman as a concept, or symbol in the exact manner the film's preach it, then why was this exact panel not in the film?:
    [​IMG]
    because of their friendship, it should be gordon who has to remind batman as the concept/symbol. this scene in this exact manner (but adapted for the situation in the film) would have been no doubt been the most powerful moment in the franchise and definately this film. of course, the closest scene to this is when gordon talks to batman as he flies of in the bat and says "bruce wayne???". maybe the man behind the mask is irrelevant to the symbol/concept, but conveying it in the manner in the comic above for use in the film, is way more powerful than the manner actually used in the film.

    as batman sacrifice's himself, the film concludes with gordon talking about all the great things the batman did and stood for. the end montage footage suggests that bruce succeeded in creating a concept or symbol that stood for something very positive and something that could inspire people. isnt it all more than possible that batman not only inspires in gotham city, but the rest of the country? maybe in star city, a millionaire who was shipwrecked at some point during the gap between the dark knight and rises, pick's up a bow and arrow and adopts his own persona to fight crime. what about an investigative journalist in hub city who decides not only to fight crime wearing a mask that eliminates his facial featues, but who is not entirely convinced the real batman is gone and decides to look into the matter. don't forget a millionaire who arms himself with a gas gun and wears a gas mask along with a fedora and buisness suit to take on crime in new york city.
     
  9. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    Uh....we got plenty of scenes of Gotham under Bane's control. Too much, in fact.

     
  10. sun

    sun You stay, I go

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    I saw this one very late in its run..

    Exciting, but much too long, This film didn't need to go on for two hours and 40 minutes. The beginning reminded me of a James Bond start...and the end fight scene..way over the top. In my opinion. Still it was exciting and entertaining..I liked some of the character development, Catwoman, and the story about the policeman who was an orphan. If you are going to go on that long, lets
    keep with the character development, clear and precise, and maybe, great action..

    Here is an action- drama type film that goes on longer, and is much better: (oh, the director didn't need any special effects, like we think of them}
    The Seven Samuari..:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047478/
     
    #210 sun, Sep 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2012
  11. Gatomon41

    Gatomon41 Free Equestrian Forces

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    I always wondered why people thought the opening was "too" over the top. Didn't they see the last two movies?

    For me, I thought the opening was a perfect introduction to Bane. Up to this point, the public perception of this character was stained by the last live-action movie Bane was in. They needed to purge that view for this movie to work. And they did that perfectly with the opening - it establishes Bane as brilliant, brutal, and charismatic without even saying what others thought about him.
     
  12. Hanshotfirst1138

    Hanshotfirst1138 Singing drunken lullabies

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    I seem to have missed my shot at catching this in the IMAX. I snooze, I lose.
     
  13. rock8346

    rock8346 Member

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    I haven't seen Batman yet. I'm thinking about ordering it. I wish they would make another Superman movie.
     
  14. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    They are. It's coming out next summer.
     
  15. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
    Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    The epic conclusion to The Dark Knight Trilogy! With it now available on home video (Blu-ray/DVD Talkback), will you give it another spin?

    [​IMG]

    "When Gotham is ashes, you have my permission to die." - Bane

    The Dark Knight Rises
    Release Date: July 20, 2012 (July 19th, 2012 midnight showings)
    Studio: Warner Bros. Pictures
    Director: Christopher Nolan
    Screenwriter: Jonathan Nolan, Christopher Nolan
    Starring: Christian Bale, Michael Caine, Anne Hathaway, Tom Hardy, Gary Oldman, Marion Cotillard, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Morgan Freeman

    Plot Summary: Warner Bros. Pictures' and Legendary Pictures' The Dark Knight Rises is the epic conclusion to filmmaker Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy. It has been eight years since Batman vanished into the night, turning, in that instant, from hero to fugitive. Assuming the blame for the death of D.A. Harvey Dent, the Dark Knight sacrificed everything for what he and Commissioner Gordon both hoped was the greater good. For a time the lie worked, as criminal activity in Gotham City was crushed under the weight of the anti-crime Dent Act. But everything will change with the arrival of a cunning cat burglar with a mysterious agenda. Far more dangerous, however, is the emergence of Bane, a masked terrorist whose ruthless plans for Gotham drive Bruce out of his self-imposed exile. But even if he dons the cape and cowl again, Batman may be no match for Bane.

    Comments?

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  16. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

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    This was the first time I saw the movie so I'm likely retreading posts from previous pages but

    The one thing that stood out to me as a con was not so much Alfred leaving Bruce (though I did have reservations about that) but lack of screen time. Seems like he appeared more in the last two movies.

    I didn't bother reading up on articles leading to the movie being released in theaters and after, so as the movie went on, I suspected Miranda Tate was going to be Ra's lover/the warlord's wife revealed to be Melisande and the child was a red herring, in that she also escaped later on but the child maybe would come back in the end as a version of Ibn al Xu'ffasch to team up with the mother and Bane. I did catch on that the prisoner was Bane. So pat on the back there.

    Since The Dark Knight Returns was fresh in my memory having reread it in anticipation of the DC Universe animated movies, it was nice seeing elements of TDKR in this one, such as the old and young cop seeing Batman on the Batpod or Bruce using the prosthesis on his leg, or even a little of Year One, Selina's friend Jen had to be based on Holly Robinson a little.

    It was a pleasant surprise to see Scarecrow make an appearance, as the judge no less, and one of the new characters named John Daggett. As a long time Stargate fan, it was plus to see Christopher Judge briefly as one of the Shadows. Josh Stewart played Bane's #2 just right, didn't feel bad when Batman knocked him out so easily. Loved how they played up Commissioner Gordon as the weary warrior and that part at the end when he realized who Batman was and was happy to see the Batsignal refurbished was a beautiful touch. Ann Hathaway definitely stole the movie. Thought it was cute they got William Devane to play the President, since again as a Stargate fan, he was the President for awhile in that franchise as well.

    Then there's John Blake. I felt like they mined pieces of Dick Grayson and Jason Todd and created this character. Nothing against it but it was an interesting angle. Didn't dewll on how he can fund his new vigilante alter-ego (either Bruce was whiddling in the Batcave for 8 years and made 1 billion Batarangs or John can make due like other super heroes with an equally marginal bank account and he's still likely got Fox and Gordon as allies) since well the theme was hope being resilient. Overall, The Dark Knight is still my favorite of the trilogy.
     

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